从比特到原子：下一次工业革命

我们在为下一次工业革命而竞争。人们说：“你对 Uber 生气吗？那让你不爽吗？”当你再次坠入爱河时，你不会太想前任。我们有一套庞大的高保真剧本，教我们如何避免因我们所做的任何事而受到关注。Uber 随着时间的推移本会发生很多事情，其中很多我们现在正在做。基本上，多个万亿美元级别的产业将被自动化。我们谈论数字 AI 及其对企业的影响，但这些产业本身规模就很大。

We're competing for the next industrial revolution. People said, "Are you pissed off about Uber? Does that grind you?" When you fall in love again, you don't think about the X very much. We had a massive high-fidelity playbook on how to not get attention for anything we did. A lot of the things that would have happened with Uber over time are things we're doing now. It's basically multiple trillion dollar industries that are going to get automated. We talk about digital AI and what it does to the enterprise, but these industries on their own are big.

你认为你的成功是因为你所做的，还是尽管你所做的？

Do you think you were successful because of what you did versus in spite of what you did?

如果你不为最好的想法而战，那你为什么想法而战？你在为平庸的想法而战。这个想法会让你不如追求最好想法时那么优秀。

If you don't fight for the best idea, then what idea are you fighting for? You're fighting for the mediocre idea. An idea that's going to make you less good than if you went for the best idea.

真正的问题是你们什么时候收购 Uber？

The real question is when are you guys going to buy Uber?

嗯，好吧。首先，我甚至不知道我怎么会在这里。

Um, okay. So, first of all, I don't even know how I ended up here.

你不能这样对我们。

Can't do that to us.

我怎么到这里来的？我怎么来的？

How did I end up here? How did I get here?

为什么？什么？

Why? What?

我有更好的朋友。不，你没感觉到。好吧，你没感觉到。我觉得这真的很，你知道，我有很多很棒的朋友今晚没被邀请，但他们是好朋友。

I have way better friends. No, you're not feeling it. Okay, you're not feeling it. I thought it was really, you know, I have really great friends out there that weren't invited this evening, but they're good friends.

确实。

That's true.

好的。所以，我想很多人都知道我的整个理念，你听我一直在谈论数字化物理世界，比特到原子，这类事情。你知道，有些人会说，哦，是的，物理 AI，他当然会这么说。这有道理。我们做这个已经很久了。好的，这是我们在 Uber 时代做的很多很棒的事情的延续。所以，我要给你们看一个 10 年前的视频。

Okay. So, I think a lot of folks know that sort of my whole thing and you hear me talk about all the time digitizing the physical world, bits to atoms, this kind of thing. You know, some people like, oh yeah, physical AI, of course he's going to say that. That makes sense. We've been doing this for a long time. Okay, this is a continuation of a lot of the awesome things we did back in the Uber day. So, I'm going to show you a video from 10 years ago.

想想比特，数字世界的基石。它诞生于 70 年前。然而在它短暂的生命中，它改变了我们沟通、经商和生活的几乎方方面面。对于 Uber，比特代表我们的技术。它复杂、精确、先进。但当它被表达出来时，它是轻松的、精致的。如果你认为比特很重要，那么想想原子。诞生于 138 亿年前。原子负责从 BLT 三明治到各地的妈妈再到纽约市的一切。对我们来说，原子代表我们快速发展的城市，我们从一个地方运到另一个地方的货物，最重要的是，我们服务的人。直到几年前，原子和比特存在于完全不同的世界。但后来在 Uber 发生了一些事情。我们问：“如果我们把这两个世界结合起来会怎样？那会是什么样子？”看起来就是这样。我们能够创造安全、低成本的交通选择，如 Uber Pool 和 Uber X。我们能够创造高效、更可靠的方式，将人们需要的东西送到他们手中。我们能够在几分钟内从最受欢迎的标志性餐厅送达新鲜烹制的餐点，并且有一天，以巨大的规模安全高效地运送人和物。我们大多数人很少或从不考虑比特或原子。我们考虑的是如何从这里到那里，我们生活中的人，每天在世界各地上演的数百万个小戏剧。人类的东西。Uber 最终成功是因为我们首先考虑人类的东西。但我们这样做的方式，那是我们的秘密。我们不遗余力地创造服务于人的产业，而不是反过来。

Consider the bit, the building block of the digital world. It was invented just 70 years ago. Yet in its short life, it has changed the way we communicate, do business, and live almost every aspect of our lives. For Uber, the bit represents our technology. It's complex, precise, and advanced. But when it's expressed, it is effortless, and refined. And if you think the bit is a big deal, consider the atom. Born 13.8 billion years ago. The atom is responsible for everything from the BLT to moms everywhere to New York City. And for us, the atom signifies our rapidly improving cities, the goods we move from place to place, and most importantly, the people we serve. Until a few short years ago, atoms and bits existed in entirely different worlds. But then something happened at Uber. We asked, "What if we brought these two worlds together? What would that look like?" It looks like this. We are able to create safe, low-cost transportation options like Uber Pool and Uber X. We are able to create efficient and more reliable ways of getting people the things they need. We are able to deliver fresh-cooked meals from the most popular iconic restaurants within minutes and someday safe efficient movement of people and things at a giant scale. Most of us don't think about bits or atoms much if ever. We think about how to get from here to there, the people in our lives, the millions of tiny dramas that play out across the world each day. The human stuff. Uber ultimately succeeds because we think about the human stuff first. But the way we do it, that's our secret. We leave no bit or atom unturned to create industries that serve people and not the other way around.

所以我们一直在谈论数字化物理世界。我已经做了 10 年了。我想我让很多在 Uber 的人觉得，“我们受够了。请不要再谈比特和原子了。这太疯狂了。我甚至不明白你在说什么。”看，我们知道比特是什么。比特世界就是计算机。我们中那些工程师、计算机科学等背景的人，以及一些不是的人，我们知道那是什么。三个核心计算资源：CPU 操纵比特，存储存储比特，网络将比特从 A 点移动到 B 点。但如果你在数字化物理世界，你就是在把原子当作比特。你会说，好吧，我知道 CPU 操纵比特。什么操纵原子？那是制造业或数字化制造。存储存储比特。什么存储原子？那是房地产。网络将比特从 A 点移动到 B 点。什么移动原子？嗯，那是运输或物流。所以，我们当时并不完全这么想，我们很接近，但当时并不完全这么想。但 Uber 是物理世界的网络，数字化的交通，但它并不像你看到的 Waymo 那样完全数字化。好吧，现在我们正在接近。当然，我认为人们仍然从菲律宾之类的地方远程驾驶它们。但它正在走向数字化。但问题是，这对企业家来说通常很有趣，尤其是在物理世界，数字化制造和数字化房地产还有很长的路要走。还有大量的创新要做。所以我们已经进步了。我们一直在努力工作。很多人以为我回来了，但我说，老兄，我一直在拼命工作。我只是没有谈论它。

So we talk about digitizing the physical world all the time. I've been doing it for 10 freaking years. I think I'm making a lot of the folks that are at Uber, they're like, "We're tired of it. Please stop talking about bits and atoms. It's crazy. I don't even understand what you're talking about." Look, we know what bits are. The bits world is a computer. And those of us who were engineers, computer science, etc., and some of us who weren't, we know what that is. The three core computing resources: CPU manipulates the bits, storage stores bits, network moves bits from point A to point B. But if you're digitizing the physical world, you're treating atoms like bits. And you're like, well, I know that CPU manipulates the bits. What manipulates atoms? That's manufacturing or digitized manufacturing. Storage stores bits. What stores atoms? That's real estate. Network moves bits from point A to point B. What moves atoms? Well, that's transport or logistics. So, we didn't exactly think of it, we were close, but we didn't exactly think of it this way at the time. But Uber was network for the physical world, digitized transportation, but it's not totally digitized like you see the Waymos out there. Okay, now we're getting there. Of course, I think people are still driving them from the Philippines or something like this. But it's going digital. But the thing is, and this is something that's interesting for entrepreneurs generally, especially in the physical world, digitized manufacturing and digitized real estate still has a long way to go. Huge amount of innovation left to go. And so we have advanced. We've been working really hard. A lot of folks think I'm back but like I'm like dude I've been working my ass off the whole time. I just haven't been talking about it.

如果你在制造基于原子的计算机，数字化制造、房地产和物理世界的网络呢？或者抱歉，物理世界的 CPU、存储和网络。如果你只是制造食品计算机、采矿计算机的 OEM，或者把你的行业加上计算机呢？如果你在做类似的事情，你在制造工业基于原子的计算机呢？这就是我们对自己所做事情的想法。你知道，我们环顾四周，你会看到物理世界，你看，OpenAI 做得很好。Anthropic 也做得不错。但看看你周围。我们看到的每样东西，无论是这个房间还是任何房间，或者你去的任何地方，你看到的每样东西要么是种植的，要么是开采的，要么是制造和运输的。每样东西。所以我们把我们做的事情视为工业 AI。我有一个很好的定义。软件、传感器、机器人和 AI 的系统，用于自动化整个工业部门的运营。好的，这就是我们所做的。我不知道是否还有其他人这样做。我的意思是，有人在做，但他们不这么称呼。我们是做这个的主要公司之一。好的，所以我们要介绍几个我们的基于原子的计算机。第一个是食品计算机，Adam's Food，更好的食品基础设施。真正的问题是，你能做出一顿饭，准备和送到你手里，效率高到接近去杂货店买菜的成本吗？你会说，好吧，这是个好问题。

What if you're making atoms-based computers, digitized manufacturing, real estate and network for the physical world? Or sorry, CPU, storage and network for the physical world. What if you're just the OEM that makes food computers, mining computers, or take your industry and put computer behind it? What if you are doing sort of this, you're making industrial atoms-based computers? That's kind of how we think about what we do. And you know, we look around us and you're like the physical world, you look, open AI is doing really well. Anthropic is doing pretty well. But look around you. Everything we see, whether it's this room or any room or anywhere you go, everything you see was either grown or mined, manufactured and moved. Everything. And so we look at what we do as industrial AI. And I sort of have a nice little definition there. Systems of software, sensors, robotics, and AI used to automate operations of entire industrial sectors. Okay, that's what we do. I don't know if anybody else does it. I mean, there are people doing it that they don't call it this. We're one of the main guys doing this. Okay, so we're going to go through a couple of our atoms-based computers. So, the first one's a food computer, Adam's food, infrastructure for better food. The real question is, can you make a meal that's prepared and delivered to you so efficient that it approaches the cost of going to the grocery store? You're like, okay, well, that's a pretty good question.

如果你能做到，那很棒，但需要什么条件呢？这意味着你的制造业必须自动化。所以，我们有机器人基本上负责食品生产。我们姑且称之为每餐 6 到 8 美元。未来我们在这里还有很多酷事要做。你还需要能够移动食物，无论是在制造设施内部，还是通过机器人快递员，我称之为“自主卷饼”。你将生产机器人化，将物流和食品运输机器人化，但你仍然需要一个空间来做这件事。这又回到了那种基于原子的计算机，对吧？你仍然需要房地产，工业房地产，在那里进行机器人生产和机器人物流。那就是我们的食品计算机。

If you can do it, it's awesome, but what would it take? Well, it means that your manufacturing has to be automated. So, we have robotics that basically do the production of food. Let's call that between six and eight dollars per meal. There's lots of cool things we're going to do in the future here. You also need to be able to move the food, whether it be inside of a facility where it's being made or actually robotic couriers, what I like to call autonomous burritos. You roboticize production. You roboticize the logistics and transportation of food, but you still need a space to do it. This goes back to that sort of atoms-based computer, right? You still need real estate, industrial real estate where that robotic production happens and where the robotic logistics occurs. That's our food computer.

亚当的矿业。我们有一个非常酷的使命。我对采矿超级着迷。我爱它。我一天比一天更爱它。用更多富有生产力的头脑为地球的工业提供动力。是什么造就了超级智能？嗯，是芯片和能源。我们知道这一点。芯片从哪里来？芯片来自地下。能源从哪里来？很多人会说，‘哦，来自太阳。’是的，来自太阳。但你是如何从太阳捕获它的？通过由地下物质制成的东西，对吧？所以，在地下，处于这种几乎是物理 AI 的原始状态，是一个非常有趣的地方。当你自动化那个东西时，它超级有趣。所以当我们谈论采矿时，我们是在说，你知道，我们去找金矿的 CEO，问他们：你想要每年多 20% 的黄金吗？我们还没听到过“不”。但他们说“证明给我看”。这正是有趣的部分。但这意味着你的运营成本更低，而且，顺便说一句，这些矿山相当不安全。所以让这些地方更安全也是我们使命的一部分。

Adam's mining. We have a really cool mission. I've gotten super geeked out on mining. I love it. I'm loving it more every day. More productive minds to power Earth's industries. What makes super intelligence? Well, it's chips and its energy. We know that. Where do the chips come from? Chips come from the ground. Where's the energy come from? A lot of people are like, 'Oh, it comes from the sun.' Yeah, it comes from the sun. But how are you capturing it from the sun? From stuff made from the ground, right? So being in the ground at this sort of almost like this primitive of physical AI is like a super interesting place. And when you're automating that thing, it's super interesting. So when we talk about mining, we're talking about, you know, we go to gold mine CEOs and we're like, would you like 20% more gold per year? We haven't heard no. But they say prove it. And that's kind of the fun part. But it means your opex is lower and it means, by the way, these mines are pretty damn unsafe. And so making these places way safer is also part of the purpose of what we're doing.

所以你会说，好吧，当我谈论采矿时，我喜欢谈论数字化存储。采矿中的数字化存储是什么？它叫土地，对吧？这是采矿计算机的存储。这是网络，对吧？因为你在移动岩石。这是网络。这是我站在一辆那种车旁边。看看那个。好的。我站在一个 TCP 数据包旁边。大概有八个人听懂了我刚才说的。但看看那个东西。满载的话，大概有 200 万磅。好吧。这是在我们的设备上运行的自主采矿机器。拍摄这段视频时，大概有三架无人机受伤了。但 CPU 在采矿中也非常有趣，对吧？比如你如何处理材料，使其成为我们需要的金属和矿物，以推动文明进步、推动进步。这里有很多非常酷的东西可以自动化。你们见过这些东西吗？这叫浮选。你飞过时会看到这些。大多数人不知道这是什么，但这基本上是将材料蒸馏到你想要的实际金属或矿物。顺便说一句，这是一个锂工厂。然后当然，所有这些东西都必须被编排。所以你需要软件，几乎就像那台计算机的操作系统，它负责移动东西，并确保它精确地完成需要发生的事情。

And so you go okay, well, when I talk about mining, I like to talk about digitized storage. What is digitized storage in mining? It's called land, right? This is storage for the mining computer. And this is network, right? 'Cause you're moving the rocks. This is network. This is me by one of those vehicles. Check that out. Okay. I'm standing next to a TCP packet. There's like eight people understood what I just said. But look at that thing. So fully loaded, that's probably like 2 million pounds. All right. And this is an autonomous mining machine operating on our stuff. There are probably about three drones that were injured in the filming of this video. But CPU is really interesting in mining too, right? Like how do you process the material to make it the metal and mineral that we need to do all the things that we do to push civilization forward, progress forward. There's lots of really cool things to automate here. You guys ever see these things? This is called flotation. You see these when you're flying over. Most people don't know what this is, but this is about distilling material down to the actual metal or mineral that you're trying to go for. This is a lithium plant, by the way. And then of course all that stuff has to be orchestrated. So you need software, almost like an operating system for that computer that's sort of moving things around and making sure it's doing exactly what needs to happen.

然后我们有运输，我称之为机器人的轮式平台。它不完全是计算机。它是计算机的一部分。如果你不做人形机器人，对吧，人形机器人是在人类环境中执行低规模任务。如果你做高规模任务、工业规模任务，你会制造专门的机器，在物理世界中移动和行动。关键部分是移动。如果它们在移动，它们必须有轮子。如果它们有轮子，你就必须为那些机器、那些正在改变该行业的专门机器人制造自主性。如果你只依赖一两家存在的公司，你走不远。所以自主性有点像你必须首先为自己制造的关键部分或关键平台。但你可以为很多其他行业制造它，对吧？

And then we have transport, which I call wheelbase for robots. It's not exactly a computer. It's part of a computer. If you're not doing humanoids, right, humanoids are like low-scale tasks in human environments. If you're doing high-scale tasks, industrial scale tasks, you are going to make specialized machines that move and act in the physical world. The key part is move. If they're moving, they got to have wheels. If they have wheels, you got to make the autonomy for those machines, those specialized robotics which are transforming that industry. And if you depend on only one or two companies that exist, you're not going very far. So autonomy is sort of like a critical part or critical platform you have to first make for yourself. But there's lots of other industries that you can make it for, right?

所以，我们知道菲尔普斯是金牌得主，但我喜欢说交通领域充满了银牌，对吧？很多人认为拼车是金牌。那食品配送呢？包裹配送呢？个人自主呢？卡车运输、货运呢？越野自主呢，比如采矿？有很多价值数千亿美元的行业将被这些专门的机器人和为工业制造的计算机所驱动。这里有一些非常有趣的、只是其中几个银牌的细分。我说，看，如果你制造自主性，并且你让它变得非常快，比 Waymo 还快，比方说，有一个黑马角度。我不知道你们是不是肯塔基赛马会的粉丝，但这里有一个黑马角度，非常有趣。但仅银牌就够疯狂的了。

So, we know Phelps is the gold medals guy, but I like to say that transport is full of silver medals, right? A lot of people think about ride sharing as a gold medal. What about food delivery? What about parcel delivery? What about personal autonomy? What about trucking, freight? What about off-road autonomy, like with mining? There are many multi-hundred-billion-dollar industries that are going to be powered by these specialized robotics and these computers made for industry. And here's sort of like a breakdown of some really interesting, just several of the silver medals that are out there. And I say, look, if you make autonomy and you make it really fast, faster than Waymo's making it, let's just say, there's a dark horse angle. Like I don't know if you guys are like Kentucky Derby guys or not, but like there is a dark horse angle here, which is pretty interesting. But the silver medals alone are freaking insane.

所以我称我们建造的东西为进步机器。那是什么意思？嗯，在公司，我们的文化是发现有价值的未知真相，因为如果你擅长发现有价值的未知真相，那意味着你会知道很多别人不知道的事情。如果你知道很多别人不知道的事情，那意味着你能做很多别人做不到的事情。你越擅长那些有价值的未知真相，你就能做越多别人做不到的事情，这意味着你带来变化的速度越来越快，就像在更短的时间内。那叫进步。那进步是自始至终推动文明的一切，包括现在。但有一个我称之为最终 Boss 的东西。进步的最终 Boss。就像你必须面对的 Boss，这个房间里的每一位企业家都知道它。它叫对变化的抗拒。这是自然的，因为你知道，很多时候变化是坏的。所以你必须提供压倒性的进步，才能让你的变化发生。

And so I call what we build progress machines. And what does that mean? Well, at the company, our culture is about discovering valuable unknown truths, because if you are good at finding valuable unknown truths, then it means you're going to know a lot of things other people don't know. And if you know a lot of things that other people don't know, it means you can do a lot of things that other people can't do. And the better you are at those valuable unknown truths, the more things you're going to be able to do that other people can't do, which means you're bringing change faster and faster, like in a shorter amount of time. That's called progress. That progress is everything that's powered civilization since the beginning, including now. But there's a what I call the final boss. The final boss for progress. It's like the boss you have to go up against, and every one of the entrepreneurs in this room knows it. It's called resistance to change. It's natural because, you know, a lot of times change is bad. And so you have to deliver an overwhelming amount of progress to make your change happen.

所以我喜欢做类比，我们快讲完了，各位，我喜欢类比第二次工业革命。就像，我们不完全，我想这里很多人可能没有完全了解 100 年前、150 年前发生了什么，但当时发生的事情和现在发生的事情有很多相似之处。顺便说一句，我们都认为，‘哦，创始人模式。来吧。创始人模式，各位。’150 年前，他们真的实践了创始人模式。这是一张图片，一个插图。

And so I like to make analogies to, we're almost done guys, I like to make analogies to the second industrial revolution. There's like, we don't fully, I think a lot of folks here may not be totally schooled on what happened 100 years ago, 150 years ago, but there's a lot of analogies for what happened then to like what's happening now. And by the way, we all think, 'Oh, founder mode. Let's go. Founder mode, guys.' 150 years ago, they did founder mode for real. This is a picture, an illustration.

你看不到上面那个人拿着枪。他正要射杀亨利·弗里克。亨利·弗里克是卡内基的合伙人。他们革新了钢铁业。你谈到所有被开采的东西，以及我们周围看到的所有建筑和事物，所有基础设施等等，都是从卡内基和弗里克开始的。一个无政府主义者闯进他的办公室，朝他开了两枪，又刺了他好几刀。他没死。子弹被取出来的时候，那家伙还在继续工作。创始人模式。

You don't see that guy on the top has a gun. He's about to shoot Henry Frick. Henry Frick was a partner of Carnegie. They revolutionized steel. Like you talk about everything being mined and all the buildings and things that we see around us, all the infrastructure, etc. Started with Carnegie and Frick. An anarchist came into his office and shot him twice and stabbed him several times. He didn't die. While the bullets were getting pulled out, the dudes kept working. Founder mode.

好了。顺便说一句，那时候还发生了其他有趣的事情。超级有趣。好吧。如果你们中有人了解威斯汀豪斯和托马斯·爱迪生，爱迪生全力支持直流电，威斯汀豪斯则全力支持交流电。我们大概知道谁赢了。是的，我有一个直流电的手电筒，但基本上交流电赢了，因为它能长距离传输。爱迪生在这场较量中完全站错了队，但他不会不战而降。所以，他是 FUD（恐惧、不确定、怀疑）的超级 OG。他是超级 OG。你知道他做了什么吗？他公开电击动物，以展示交流电不安全。他就是 OG。现在，我们在当今世界看到了这种情况。好吧，这些类比在起作用。我只是说说。好吧，这可能会传到网上。

All right. And by the way, there's other interesting things that happened back then. Super interesting stuff. Okay. If those of you who know about like Westinghouse and Thomas Edison, Edison was all about direct current. Westinghouse was all about alternating current. We kind of know what won. Like, yes, I have a flashlight with direct current, but basically AC won because it could go long distances. Edison was on the wrong side of this equation big time, but he wasn't going down without a fight. So, he was the ultra OG of FUD, fear, uncertainty, and doubt. He was the ultra OG. You know what he did? He did public displays of electrocution of animals to show that AC electricity was unsafe. He was the OG. Now, we see this in the current world. Okay, the analogies they play. I'm just saying. Okay, that might go online.

这是霍姆斯特德抗议。好吧。霍姆斯特德抗议。这是卡内基和弗里克的事。实际上这导致了他被枪击。这是关于罢工，霍姆斯特德罢工，基本上是关于工会化的事情，他们不愿意成立工会，显然发生了一些冲突。这是我们今天所理解的第一个大型工会事件。可能是原型。我们开始看到这些事情了，对吧？所以当然回到 2014 年的 Uber，当时整个欧洲所有主要城市都发生了罢工。他们烧毁汽车。他们做了疯狂的事情来阻止那种进步。这是最终 Boss，对变革的抵抗。你知道，人们说历史不会重演，但总会押韵。好吧。不是每个人都能读懂。好吧。所以 Uber 和 Lyft 的司机现在在 Waymo 办公室外抗议。好吧。这是怎么回事？好吧，有道理。看，这种事会发生。好吧。但我们正在推动进步。会有阻力。这将是必然的。

This was a Homestead protest. Okay. Homestead protest. This is a Carnegie Frick thing. Actually led to him getting shot actually. And it was about a strike, sort of Homestead strike, and it was basically a unionization thing and they weren't willing to go union and there was obviously a scuffle of sorts. And it's one of the first big huge union situations for how we think about it today. Probably the archetype for it. And we're starting to see those things, right? So like of course go back to 2014 Uber, well there was a strike across all of Europe in all the major European cities. They lit cars on fire. They did crazy things to stop that kind of progress. This is the final boss, the resistance to change. And like you know they say history doesn't repeat itself, but it rhymes. Okay. And not everybody can read it. Okay. So the Uber and Lyft drivers are now protesting at the Waymo office. Okay. There's a What's this? Okay, fair enough. See, that happens. Okay. But we're bringing progress forward. There will be resistance. It is going to be a thing.

而且这个房间里有很多企业家，超级厉害的企业家。我们必须坚强。我们必须硬核。就像我发的邀请函上的那些人，对吧？我们有福特，有卡内基，有 JP 摩根。我们有一切。右边是威斯汀豪斯。我们必须向他们看齐。我们总以为自己是第一个做这些事的，但实际上，肯定有人比我们做得更艰难、更好。总是如此。他们总是冒着风雪，翻山越岭去上学。我保证。好吧。他们也有那些东西，对吧？他们有那些东西，对吧？就像你在媒体上看到的关于那些东西的报道，并不总是反映真实情况。看看那种同理心。

And there are a ton of entrepreneurs, super badass entrepreneurs in this room. Like we have to be steeled. We have to be hardcore. Like the guys on the invite that I sent, right? We've got Ford, we've got Carnegie, we've got JP Morgan. We got all the guys. Westinghouse on the right. We have to look to them. We always think that we did things first, but actually there were dudes that did it harder, better than us for sure. Always. They walked to school uphill in the snow both ways. I promise. All right. And they had those things, right? They had the stuff, right? And it's like what you see in the press about what that stuff is isn't always what the stuff really is. Look at that empathy.

但你如何领导两万人，让他们朝着一个美好的使命前进？那两万人都是伟大的头脑，乐观、善良的人。你怎么做到？你不能通过做一个坏人来实现。但你必须硬核。我不知道你是否必须像弗里克那样硬核，但你必须拿出实力。我们有很多事情要坚守，我们这些企业家。我们必须做到。顺便说一句，支持我们的人，或者那些创造奇迹的高管们，也是如此。你必须具备所有这些品质。

But how do you lead 20,000 people and get them oriented towards a beautiful mission? And those 20,000 people are great minds, optimistic, good people. How do you do that? You can't do that by being a bad person. But you have to be hardcore. I don't know if you have to be as hardcore as Frick, but you got to bring it. And there's a lot of things we got to hold and we got like the entrepreneurs. We got to do this. And by the way, the folks that support us or the executives that are making magic happen too. Like you got to be all these things.

所以在我们公司，我们有这个叫做“冠军之心”的东西，为锦标赛中的金牌高尔夫球手提供 23 分。所以他们真的指望这个周末能拿到很多分。所以，我们有这个叫做“冠军之心”的东西，你知道，在生活中，你会被击倒，就像刚才发生在她身上的事。但如果你把一切都放在赛场上，当你被击倒时，你不断站起来，就很难失败，对吧？你把音量调回去。

And so at the company we have this thing called the champions heart 23 points for the golden golfers in their championship. So they're really relying on getting a lot this weekend. So, we have this thing called champion's heart, which is um you know, in life, you get knocked down like what just happened to her. But if you put everything you got on the field and when you get knocked down, you keep getting back up, it's very difficult to fail, right? You turn the volume back up.

可能会追上领先者。哇。她玩得很开心。这是 Danovan 的勇敢尝试。取消。她正在推进。Dadan 从这辆卡车外侧过来。Donan 来势汹汹。Dan allow。

May catch the leaders. Wow. Well, she's got fun. This is a gutsy effort by Danovan. Cancel. She's moving it through. Dadan coming down this truck to the outside. Donan coming on strong. Dan allow.

这只是我们公司相信的事情，我认为大多数成功的企业家都相信这一点。所以，你知道，很多人说：“嘿，特拉维斯回来了。”或者，你知道，我想你的邀请函上可能也写了，但我实际上已经工作了八年。我只是没有谈论它。

And this is just a thing we believe at our company and I think it's a thing that most of the successful entrepreneurs believe in. And so, you know, look, a lot of folks they say, 'Hey, Travis is back.' Or, you know, I think it might have even been on your invite, but I've actually been working for eight years. I just haven't been talking about it.

所以以这种方式回来很好，因为我有一段时间有点像在洞穴里。我想感谢大家来到这里。我想 Eric、Ben 和我将进行一次愉快的对话。再次，非常感谢。所以，人们喜欢我们做的播客，我们第一次一起做的那个，原因是我们直接切入正题。直接进入好东西。所以，我们在这里也会这样做，然后我们会开放问答环节。

And so it is good to be back in this way because I was kind of in a cave for a while. And I want to thank everybody for being here. And I think Eric, Ben, and I are going to have a nice conversation. And again, thank you so much. So, the reason why people loved our podcast that we did, the first one that we did together is because we just got right into it. Right into the good stuff. So, we're going to do that here and then we're going to open it up for Q&A.

我对问答环节感到害怕。Eric 很擅长这个，这让我压力很大。好吧。你有什么问题，Eric？

I'm scared for Q&A. Eric's good at this and it stresses me out. All right. What do you got, Eric?

那么，特拉维斯，你为什么没有收购 Lyft，你后悔吗？如果能回到过去，你会怎么做？

So, Travis, why didn't you buy Lyft and do you regret it? What would you do if you can go back in time?

嗯，我想这会让大家很惊讶，但 Lyft 的文化和我们非常不同。也许是从紫色、粉色小胡子开始的。但我认为这很有趣，对吧，当谈到企业家处于那个可以收购某物的时刻。顺便说一句，我为此挨了很多批评，持续了很长时间。所以，是的，文化不融合。

Um, I think this will surprise a lot of people, but Lyft's culture was very different than ours. Maybe it started with the purple the pink mustache. But I think it's interesting, right, when it comes to entrepreneurs that are in that moment where you could acquire something. By the way, I got a lot of flak for this for a long time. So, so yeah, the culture didn't mix.

是的。是的。是的。文化不融合。

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The culture didn't mix.

当你和某人见面，你要收购他们，而且这可能会带来很多好处，顺便说一句，我们当时处于一场疯狂的战争中，可能每年要花十亿美元，或者一些疯狂的钱。你希望它成功。

And when you meet with somebody and you're going to acquire them and there's so much goodness that could come from it, by the way, we're in some crazy war probably spending a billion dollars a year on it or some insane amount of money. You want it to work.

所以，你不会做任何不同的事。

So, you wouldn't do anything different.

我不会做任何不同的事。现在说起来容易，但我为此挨了很多批评，持续了很长时间。但基本上，我会坐在桌子对面，看着那些人，我只是觉得，很明显我们的文化非常不同，你无法让它成功。

I wouldn't do anything different. And it's easy to say now, but I got a lot of flak for that for a long time. But it was basically I would sit across the table from the guys and I just didn't it was just clear that we were very culturally different and you couldn't make it happen.

所以，顺便说一句，我同意这一点。

So I, by the way, I agree with that.

是的。

Yeah.

我认为，我的意思是，你必须做反事实分析，如果特拉维斯还在运营 Uber。因为那会是什么样子？特拉维斯今天还在运营 Uber。

I think it, I mean you'd have to do the counterfactual if Travis was still running Uber. Because what would that look like? Travis is still running Uber today.

嗯，我觉得那本该是原始文化，而他们后来形成的文化，是对那种抵制的一种反应，结果却比 Uber 最初的文化平淡得多。Uber 最初的文化是一种非常独特、非常鲜明的文化。在那份文化文档里，我最喜欢的是“精英主义/踩脚趾”或“踩脚”那部分。我记不清了，我一直以为是“踩脚”，但……

Well, I think it would have been the original culture, and the culture they went to, which was a reaction to the resistance, just ended up being a much more milquetoast culture than the original Uber culture, which was a special, very pronounced culture. My favorite thing in that culture doc was meritocracy slash toe-stepping or toe-stomping. I can't remember. I always thought of it as stomping, but...

精英主义和踩脚趾。

Meritocracy and toe-stepping.

踩脚趾。对。

Toe-stepping. Yeah.

这有点像你的感受，你知道吗？我们来这里是为了建设，我们就要去做，我们要尽全力去推。是的，你可能会被踩到脚趾，但你必须继续前进，你必须继续带来东西。对我来说，当 Travis 离开后，这部分就被稀释了，而且在某种程度上，这是核心部分。至少从我旁观的角度来看，这是一个非常关键的要素。

Which is kind of like your feelings, you know? Like we're here to build. We're going to do it. We're going to push as hard as we can. And yeah, you may get your toes stepped on, but you got to keep going. You got to keep bringing it. And that, to me, was the part that got diluted when Travis went out, and in some ways it was the core part. It was a very essential element to at least what I saw, you know, kind of from the side in it.

是的。我们已经重新命名了。在 Adams 现在的公司，我们称之为“最好的想法胜出”。但你知道，踩脚趾很重要，因为有太多人不愿意为最好的想法而战，因为他们会得罪别人。如果你不为最好的想法而战，那你为什么想法而战？你是在为平庸的想法、政治上权宜的想法而战，这些想法会让你不如选择最好想法时那么好。

Yeah. We've rebranded it. The current company at Adams, we call it 'the best idea wins.' But you know, the toe-stepping is important because there are so many people that are not willing to fight for the best idea because they're going to upset somebody else. And if you don't fight for the best idea, then what idea are you fighting for? You're fighting for the mediocre idea, the politically expedient idea, an idea that's going to make you less good than if you went for the best idea.

是的，是的。所以让每个人都朝这个方向努力，是一种能帮助你获胜的文化氛围。

Yeah. Yeah. And so having everybody oriented towards that is a cultural vibe that helps you win.

是的。安迪·格鲁夫在英特尔时，他称之为“建设性对抗”。

Yeah. When Andy Grove was at Intel, he used to call that constructive confrontation.

是的。

Yeah.

这是唯一能变得更好的方式。你必须经受考验。

Which is the only way to get better. You have to get tested.

Polymarket 上有个预测市场，关于 Travis 什么时候会回到 Uber，或者他们什么时候会请 Travis 回 Uber。但真正的问题是：你们什么时候会收购 Uber？

There's a Polymarket on when Travis is going to come back at Uber, or when they're going to ask Travis to come back at Uber. But the real question is: when are you guys going to buy Uber?

我觉得我们还有很多要证明的。这很有趣……我现在做的很多事情，你知道，人们会问“如果你……你会做什么？”我不能说我在 Uber 会做的所有事情我现在都在做。有很多事情我没有做，但这是那些事情的延续，而且很多原本 Uber 会随着时间推移发生的事情，我们现在正在做。如果这些事情实现了，你接管了，你看，我概述了工业 AI 是什么以及它未来的发展方向。基本上有多个千亿或万亿美元的行业将被自动化。我们谈论数字 AI 以及它对企业的影响，但这些行业本身就很庞大。所以这是一个正在到来的新工业时代。我把它比作第二次工业革命。所以如果我们是对的，并且执行得好，那么它就会成真，因为你会想：食品会被自动化吗？食品的生产会被自动化吗？食品的配送会被自动化吗？我想我们都会说是的。如果是这样，那么就会有一种服务，以比去杂货店更便宜的价格准备和配送食品。如果这发生了，食品将被彻底革命。采矿会被自动化吗？如果会，不仅仅是材料的运输，而是采矿的每一个部分。那么采矿公司是什么？它只是拥有房地产。它将被彻底革命，这是一个数万亿美元的市场。还有很多这样的领域，嗯，我们现在必须交付。所以……

I think we still have a lot to earn. It's a fun... so much of what I'm doing, you know, people go, 'What would you be doing if...' and I can't say all the things that I would be doing at Uber I'm doing now. There's a lot of things I'm not, but it is a continuation of the things, and a lot of the things that would have happened with Uber over time are things we're doing now. And if those things play out and you take over, look, I outlined what industrial AI is and where it's going over time. It's basically multiple hundred-billion or trillion-dollar industries that are going to get automated. We talk about digital AI and what it does to the enterprise, but these industries on their own are big. And so this is a new industrial age that is sort of coming. I compare it to the second industrial revolution. So if we're correct and we execute well, then it's a thing because you're like, is food going to get automated? Is the production of food going to get automated? And is the delivery of food going to get automated? I think we'd all say yes. And if that's the case, then there will be a service that prepares and delivers that food at cheaper than going to the grocery store. And if that happens, food will be completely revolutionized. Will mining get automated? And if it does, not just the movement of the materials, but every part of mining. Then what is a mining company? It just owns real estate. It will be completely revolutionized, a multi-trillion-dollar market. And there are many of these, and well, we got to deliver now. So...

谈谈你在 Adams 作为创始人与在 Uber 时有什么不同。你改变了什么？回顾过去，你保留了哪些？你认为你的成功是因为你做了什么，还是尽管你做了什么？

Talk about how you're different as a founder building at Adams than you were building Uber. In terms of what have you changed? What have you kept the same when you reflect back? What do you think you were successful because of what you did versus in spite of what you did?

听着，我做 Uber 的一些方式与我在 Uber 之前做的事情非常相关，而我在 Uber 之前做的事情是失败。我的意思是，我的公司勉强被收购。前四年我没有薪水。我有双袜子，上面写着“血、汗和拉面”。你知道，就是那样的东西。当你处于那种边缘，靠福利生活，必须维持生计，然后你进入像 Uber 这样的东西，那是超级产品市场契合度乘以一千，但你仍然认为自己很穷，下周就没钱去杂货店了。你离那条线太近了。我会紧贴着那条线。有些人可能猜到了，但我会紧贴着那条线。你知道我没有沾上粉笔灰的唯一方法，是你用电磁扫描显微镜放大，换个角度，然后你会说：“好吧，他没事。”但如果你变大了，还那样运作，你就会到达一个地方，你很快带来很多变化，却没有让信任同行。所以，我会说今天我离那条线有几英寸远。你不需要慢动作回放就知道我做了正确的事。我坚持我在 Uber 做的每一个决定，但你不再需要猜测了。非常干净。你不必那么接近。另一件有趣的事情，我认为有时候刚起步的年轻创业者并不完全理解的是，当你进入你的第三、第四家公司，我不知道，这可能是我的第五家，你会变得非常擅长做事。所以以前需要我一天或三天、很多压力、焦虑的事情，比如“我要做这个”，现在只需要我 45 分钟。这是一件美好的事情。有些事情你不会得到，比如我现在对逆境如此习惯，以至于它有点正常。所以我不会那么生气。但生气让你成为一个好的创业者。所以我必须确保我仍然充满激情。就像，来吧。

Look, some of how I did Uber is very related to what I did before Uber, and what I did before Uber was I failed. I mean, I got my company barely acquired. I did the first four years without a salary. I had socks that said 'blood, sweat, and ramen.' You know, it was stuff like that. And when you're that on the line and you're on welfare and you've got to make ends meet, and then you go into something like Uber, which is like ultra product-market fit times a thousand, but you still think you're poor and you can't go to the grocery store next week. You get too close to the line. Like I would go right up against the line. Some people might have guessed that, but I'd go right up against the line. And the only way you knew that I didn't get chalk on my shoe was you'd get an electromagnetic scanning microscope and you would zoom in, reverse angle, and you'd be like, 'Okay, he's fine.' But if you get big and you roll that way, you get to a place where you're bringing a lot of change really fast and you haven't brought trust along for the ride. So, I would say today I'm a few inches off that line. You don't need to do the slow-motion replay to know that I did the right thing. I'd stand by every decision I made at Uber, but you don't need to guess anymore. It's super clean. You don't have to be that close. The other thing that's interesting, and I think sometimes the young entrepreneurs that are just coming up right now, they don't totally get it, is that when you get into your third and fourth, I don't know, this may be even my fifth at this point company, you get freaking really good at doing stuff. And so things that used to take me a day or three days, a lot of stress, anxiety, like 'I am going to do this,' take me like 45 minutes. And that's a beautiful thing. There are things you don't get, like I'm so used to adversity at this point that it's kind of normal. So I don't get as pissed off. But being pissed off makes you good as an entrepreneur. So I got to make sure I'm still fired up. Like, come on.

那就是那种愤怒的能量。

That's that pissed-off energy.

你跟我来。我要踢你的屁股。

You with me. I'm going to kick your ass.

你知道，我觉得在 25 岁时更容易。我不知道。我只是不……就像，老兄，随便吧。没关系。你做你自己，老兄。很好。你太习惯逆境了，这有点问题。但是，是的。所以，我会说这些是一些有趣的变化。是的。

You know that it's easier when you're 25, I think. I don't know. I'm just not... It's like, dude, whatever. It's fine. You be you, dude. It's good. You get too used to adversity and that's kind of a problem. But, yeah. So, I'd say those are some of the fun changes. Yeah.

有什么例子是以前需要很长时间，但现在容易得多的？比如……

What's an example of something that used to take a long time, but is now just so much easier? Like a...

听着，我写了一份愿景说明。当我们推出 Adams 时，那是几个月前。就像，你知道，显然我有偏见，但我认为那是一份写得非常好的愿景说明。10 年前、15 年前，那可能需要我，我不知道，几百个小时。

Look, I wrote a vision note. When we rolled out Adams, it was a few months ago. It was like, you know, look, I'm biased obviously, but it was, I think, a very well-written vision note. 10 years ago, 15 years ago, that would have taken me, I don't know, hundreds of hours.

是的。

Yeah.

而且它就这么流畅地写出来了。

And it just flowed.

是的。

Yeah.

就像，好吧，我不能说我没想很多，但当我写的时候，它真的就是自然流淌，就这么发生了。我心想，天哪，就这么发生了。天哪。就像我这次融资写的那个，好吧，我拖延了，但你知道，这很正常。但一旦我写对了，我就想，"哦，兄弟，我们搞定了。"大概花了 45 分钟。我就想，"这太棒了。"

Like, okay, I can't say I wasn't thinking about it a lot, but when I was doing the writing, it actually just flowed and just happened. I'm like, holy it just happened. Holy cow. Like, the one I just did for this funding, like, okay, I procrastinated, but you know, that's a thing. But like once I did the right, I'm like, "Oh, dude, we got it." It took like 45 minutes. I'm like, "This is amazing."

而这和演示、沟通、策略这类东西有关。这非常棒。

And that's related to presentation, communication, strategy, this kind of thing. Which is pretty awesome.

Ben，自从你第一次认识 Travis 以来，你看到他如何成长，能更广泛地评论一下吗？在座有很多连续创业者，像 Travis 你取得了巨大的成功，但过程中也有一些错误。你知道，下次你会吸取什么教训，而你会确保保留和继续什么，因为那是让你走到今天的原因。

Ben, how have you seen Travis evolve since you first got to know him and comment more broadly? We have a lot of repeat entrepreneurs in the room in terms of when like Travis you have a massive success that also has some mistakes along the way. You know, what lessons do you learn from the next time versus, you know, what do you make sure to keep and continue because that's what got you there.

嗯，我觉得这其实是一个很好的描述方式，那就是，你知道，当他有 2 万人在他手下工作时，他以为自己处于生存模式。而这个想法很危险。当你拥有如此庞大的组织时，它在两个层面上都很危险。一是危险，因为正如他所说，你没有带足够多的人一起走，但另一个危险是，你有这么多人为你工作。而他们对这个想法的解读可能有很多种。你知道，你必须站在线的这一边，这样下面第八层的人就不会做出愚蠢的事。所以，你知道，这是一个很大的变化，我会说。但他一直都很棒。一直都是。我的意思是，这就是为什么我们没有投资 Uber 如此令人遗憾。但是，是的，我认为你看，当你真正得到它时，一切都会变得更容易。王子那句台词是什么？人们说没有什么是太容易的，但当你拥有它时，没有什么是太难的。这就是他达到的境界。

Well, I thought that was actually a really good way to characterize it, which was, you know, he thought he was in survival mode when he had 20,000 people working for him. And that idea is dangerous. When you have such a big organization, it's dangerous on two levels. One, it's dangerous because you're not, as he said, bringing enough people along with you, but it's also dangerous in that you've got all these people working for you. And their interpretation of that idea could be a lot. You know, you kind of have to stay way on this side of the line so the guy, you know, eight levels down doesn't do something stupid. And so that, you know, that's a big change, I would say. But like he was always great. Always. I mean that's why it was so tragic that we didn't invest in Uber. But yeah, and I think look when you do get it, I think everything comes easier. It was what's the prince line? People say nothing comes too easy but when you got it nothing comes too hard. That's like that's where he got to.

不过我要补充一点，而且我觉得我不想向某些人建议，比如在座的很多人已经知道这一点，但就是当事情变得容易时，就该努力推进了。我过去常说，如果某件事变得容易，它就要变得非常难了，而你不想那样。你想让它难，而不是让困难落在你身上，如果你明白我的意思。

The one thing I add to it though and again I feel like I don't want to prescribe to some folks like everybody a lot of folks here already know this but it's like when it gets easy it's time to push hard. I always used to say like if something is getting easy it's about to get really hard and you don't want it to be that way. You want to make it hard versus hard make it hard on you if that makes sense.

是的。

Yeah.

这些年来我和很多创业者聊过，他们说，"哦，兄弟，我们正在全速前进。我们现在在轻松街上。"我就说，"伙计，你马上就要挨揍了，而你甚至不知道。"现在我也知道了，因为我当然自己也经历过。所以是的。

And I've talked to a lot of entrepreneurs over the years where they're like, "Oh man, we're just cranking. We're on easy street right now." And I'm like, "Dude, you are about to get your ass whooped and you don't even know it." Now I know that too because of course I've experienced it myself. So yeah.

是的。这是一个非常好的见解。

Yeah. And that's a very good insight.

是的。所以我注意到，每次我和创业者交谈时，当他们开始说，"哦，是的，我只是，是的，很容易。进展太顺利了。我们没有竞争。你知道，我刚雇了这个人。他收到了 Anthropic 50 亿美元的 offer，但他接受了我 40 万美元年薪的工作。等等等等。"我就说，"兄弟，检查一下自己的伤口，因为我保证你在流血。"你知道，就像你有麻烦了。

Yeah. So it's I notice that all the time when I talk to entrepreneurs when they start going, "Oh yeah, I just Yeah, it's easy. It's going so well. We don't have competition. You know, I just hired this guy. He had an offer from Anthropic for $5 billion, but he took my $400,000 a year job. Blah blah blah blah blah blah." I'm like, "Bro, check yourself for wounds cuz I assure you you're bleeding." You know, like you're in trouble.

当然。但有时候确实是容易的。那是一个假装的人。所以我称之为"假装直到成功"，他是在对自己和他人撒谎。但确实有容易的时候，但那是因为你没有继续推进。所以，当你没有赢，却假装在赢，这是一回事。而当你赢了，却掉以轻心，即将开始输，这是另一回事。

For sure. But there's times when it's actually easy. That's a guy pretending. So I call that the fake it till you make it, which he's lying to himself plus others. But there's actual times when it's easy, but it's because you're not continuing to push. So it's one thing when you're just not winning, but you're pretending like you are. And there's another thing when you're winning but you're taking it easy and you're about to start losing.

是的。很多这样的情况。

Yeah. Many such cases.

是的，当然。

Yeah, for sure.

最后一个问题，然后我会开放几个问答。所以 Ben，哦 Travis，你在 Uber 的第一轮外部融资，风险投资轮，我相信是 400 万投后或类似的情况。

Last question then I'll open up to a couple Q&A. So Ben, oh Travis, when your first external round at Uber, the venture round I believe was at 4 million post or something like that.

是 400 万投前。你说的是第一轮。是的。

It's 4 million pre. You're talking about at first round. Yeah.

我们在 Uber 的第一轮是 400 万投前。这一轮，你知道，大了好几个数量级。

Our first round at Uber was 4 million pre. This one is, you know, several orders of magnitude bigger.

Ben，我相信这是我们最大的一张支票，如果不是最大的话，也是你写过最大的支票。

Ben, I believe this is one of, if not our biggest check, biggest check you've ever written.

是的，当然是我写过最大的支票。

Yeah, certainly biggest check I ever wrote.

你知道，你什么时候确信我们是 100% 能成的？你的过程是怎样的？

You know, when did you get to conviction that we were 100% do? Like what was your process like?

我不是 100%。当我第一次开始和他谈的时候，好吧，一旦我知道这是什么，我唯一的问题就是它会不会是一件事？

I wasn't 100. When I first started talking to him, well, as soon as I knew what it was, the only question for me was was it going to be one thing?

是的。

Yeah.

因为你看，我认识 Travis 很多很多年了，他一直都是相反的，我们的对话总是真实的。比如当我们，我的意思是我在 Lyft 董事会时，我和他谈 Uber，他会告诉我中国拼车公司对他做的所有事情，侵入他的应用，免费赠送，等等等等。他对此非常兴奋。就像，哦，如果我能对付这些家伙，世界其他地方就都不是问题。而且这样的人不多。我告诉你，我干这行有一段时间了，很少有创业者会这样。所以，我知道如果我们能把钱投给 Travis，而且他还是，我学到的另一件事是他还是 Travis。就像，他没有变成，他没有在过最好的生活。他没有那样做。所以，是的，这是一个非常，我很快就有了那个信念。

Because look, I've known Travis for many, many, many years and he's always been the opposite of the like our conversations were always the real. Like when we, I mean I was on the board of Lyft and I was talking to him about Uber and he would tell me like all the stuff that Chinese ride sharing companies were doing to him, breaking into his apps, giving away for free, this and that and the other. And he was fired up about that. Like, oh, if I can deal with these guys, the rest of the world is going to be no problem. And there are just not that many. There are very few, I'm telling you, I've been in this a while, very few entrepreneurs that come at it like that. So, I knew if we could put money in Travis and he was still, the other thing that I learned was he was still Travis. Like, he hadn't turned into, he wasn't living his best life. He wasn't doing that. So, yeah, it was a very, I had that conviction very fast.

我想很多人不知道，有些人知道但不多，是我们实际上有独立的公司在运行，所以当我去融资时，我有点像穿着风衣、带着一堆手表的家伙出现在 A16，说你想不想要手表，你想要哪块，我有很多东西，你想要一些食品类的东西吗，实际上我有食品业务的不同部分，你喜欢什么，我有一些采矿的东西，那很酷，他们说我们只想要那个足够的，我们从最初谈的几个人那里听到了这个。所以实际上这笔交易的棘手之处，或者说让这笔交易更棘手、让我们有点紧张、让它变得困难的是，我不得不合并不同的实体，有不同的投资者，然后把它们放在一起。这很有趣，因为当某些东西非常早期时，你怎么计算比例？但这非常棒，因为就像你看到 Elon 的一些事情，他开始把碎片重新拼起来，他做到了。他不仅在五六个或八件事上都很出色，当然 A16 参与了大部分或全部。但他管理着五六七家不同的公司，所以我真的试图把它放在一个屋檐下，这太棒了。

I think a lot of people don't, some people know this but not a lot, is that we actually had separate companies going and so when I went to do the fund raise I kind of showed up at A16 kind of like the guy with a trench coat with a bunch of watches saying you want a watch which watch would you like I got lots of stuff did you want some food stuff actually I got different parts of the food thing what do you like I've got some mining stuff that's pretty cool and they're like we just want the enough and we heard that from the first few people that we talked to. And so actually the tricky part about this deal or what added trickiness to this deal that made us sweat a little bit and just made it hard was like I had to merge separate entities with different investors and put it together. Which was pretty interesting because like how do you do a ratio when certain things are very early? But it's super great because it was like you see some of the things with Elon and he's starting to put the pieces back together he did. He's not only phenomenal of course on all the five or six or eight things and of course A16 is in most or all of them. But he was managing five or six or seven different companies and so I was really trying to put it together under a single roof which is amazing.

他在几十年后还在做这件事，但我是说这在某些方面让事情变得更好了。是的。在我们进入问答环节之前，最后，Travis，你能说几句关于让很多 Uber 老伙计重新聚在一起是什么感觉吗？

He's doing it many, you know, a couple decades later, but I mean it's it makes things better in some ways. Yeah. Before we get to Q&A, lastly, Travis, why don't you say a couple words about what it's like to have a lot of the Uber gang back together?

呃，就是把碎片重新拼起来。你知道，Anthony，你买的这家公司，这个房间里有一群人，他们和你一起经历了第一轮。

Uh, it's where, you know, putting the pieces back together. You know, Anthony, this company you bought, there's a bunch of people in this room who were alongside with you for the first round.

你看，当我刚开始的时候，我是 Uber 的董事会成员。所以我收到了成千上万来自 Uber 员工的来信，他们说：“走吧。”我必须小心，因为如果你是一家公司的董事会成员，你不能雇佣他们成千上万的员工。

Look, when I first got going, look, I was on the board of Uber when I first got going. So, I got thousands of inbound from actual Uber employees that are like, "Let's go." And I had to be careful because if you're on the board of a company, you can't hire thousands of their people.

运气不好。

Bad luck.

不是。这不仅仅是难看，实际上是非法的。所以，还有这个。而且我对这里的法律非常熟悉。好吧。

Not. It's not just a bad look. It's actually illegal. So, there's that, too. And um and I'm very familiar with the law here. Okay.

嗯，所以你挑选你的人，挑选你的位置，所有这些。但是，你知道，这个房间里有很多非常特别的人。我的意思是，呃，Godam，Uber 的前 CFO，加入了 Adams。呃，这是最近的事。Ganesha，Uber 的前工程副总裁或高级副总裁，刚刚加入了 Adams。还有很多 Uber 的年轻枪手加入了，现在他们成了大枪手，对吧？有个叫 Brian Atwell 的家伙，他是我们食品和基础设施方面的工程负责人之一。呃 Anthony Leandowski，当然，呃 Eric Myhoffer，他负责 Uber 的先进技术集团，他现在负责食品机器人。这样的例子还有很多，伙计们。哦，Jessica，呃，Jessica Morton，她曾是 Uber Eats 日本区的负责人，我们刚开始的时候我去了日本，我见了 Masa，因为也许 Masa 会参与进来，而且我永远无法释怀他偷了我的东西，然后投资了八家做同样事情的公司。然后我见了 Jess，因为那是我在那里要做的最重要的事情之一。但她现在在做很多很酷的事情。现在我们不仅仅是一家 Uber 公司。我们的高管中非 Uber 出身的人比 Uber 出身的还多。但那个时代有很多核心精神，那些在那里的人，就像他们说的：重来一次。是的。

Um so, you pick your guys, you pick your spots, the whole thing. Um but, you know, there's a few there's a lot of really special people in this room. I mean, uh, Godam, who was the CFO over at Uber, has joined Adams. Uh, that's a recent thing. Ganesha, who was a a VP or SVP of engineering over at Uber, has just joined Adams. And there's a lot of young guns at Uber that joined that are now the big guns, right? There's a guy, Brian Atwell, who's one of our engineering leads on the food side and on infrastructure. Uh Anthony Leandowski, of course, uh Eric Myhoffer, who ran Uber's, uh Advanced Technology Group, he's running Food Robotics. Like the list goes on, guys. Oh, Jessica uh uh Jessica Morton, she was head of Uber Eatats uh Japan and I went to Japan when we first got going and I met with Masa because like maybe Masa's going to be in and like I could never get over him just stealing my stuff and then investing in like eight other companies that do what I do. And then I met with Jess because that was like my number one in like my number one thing to my number one number two thing to do there. But she's now doing a lot of really cool stuff. Now we're not just an Uber company. We have more executives that are not Uber than are. But there's a lot of heart from that time and people who were there and it's like what do they say? Run it back. Yeah.

但也有向前跑，就是做新的、不同的。不要做以前的你。嗯，所以无论如何，我们玩得很开心。

But there's also run it forward which is do it new, different. Don't be what you were before. Um, so anyways, we're having fun.

说到这个房间里的特别的人，我想开始一些问答环节。

Speaking of special people of this room, I want to open it up to uh to some Q&A.

呃，Gary Travis，恭喜。呃，我最喜欢问的问题，尤其是在这样的房间里，是如果你能像漂流瓶一样给 18 到 22 岁的自己发一条信息，你会说什么？

Uh, Gary Travis, congratulations. Uh, my favorite question to ask for especially a room like this is what if you could like send a message in a bottle to the 18 to 22-year-old version of yourself, what will say?

嗯，你看，18 岁的我呃是个超级极客，呃，假装不是。所以我会说：“哥们，就做个极客吧。会没事的。”你知道，当你是个极客的时候，假装不是极客只是很多认知上的，你知道，负担，那是不必要的。嗯，你知道，呃，我不确定事情会变得更好，但那肯定是我可能会告诉自己的事情之一。是的。是的。

Um, look, the 18-year-old version of me uh was a super geek uh pretending not to be. So, I would just be like, "Dude, just be a geek. It's going to be fine." You know, the pretending to not be a geek when you're a geek is just a lot of cognitive spa, you know, load that's not necessary. Um, you know, uh, I am not sure that things would have gone better, but that's certainly one of the things I probably would have told myself. Yeah. Yeah.

你呢，Ben？

What about you, Ben?

那就是我，我就是不要担心，呃，不要担心事情，你知道，事情就是这样。做你该做的。嗯，你知道，不要，不要，结果就是结果。你知道，你必须找到一条出路，你必须一直找，直到找到它。没有别的办法。所以担心一点用都没有。

That's I I just not to worry about uh not to worry about stuff, you know, like it is what it is. Do what you got to do. Um, you know, don't don't like consequence is going to be what the consequence is. You know, you got to find a way out and you just got to keep looking till you find it. And there's nothing else to do. So worrying doesn't help at all.

没有压力。

No stress.

是的。

Yeah.

别担心，要开心。

Don't worry, be happy.

是的。是的。别担心，要开心，但是你需要紧迫感。不要太开心。

Yeah. Yeah. Don't worry, be Well, but you need urgency. Don't be too happy.

是的。是的。不要太开心。

Yeah. Yeah. Don't be too happy.

别担心，要开心。Travis，不要太开心。不要又胖又开心。是的。好的。下一个问题。

Don't worry, be happy. Travis, don't be too happy. Don't be fat and happy. Yeah. Okay. Next question.

Owen，问 Travis 一个问题。你打算怎么组织这一切？你会在各个部门之间共享资源吗？你会有 CEO 吗？你会有很多董事会吗？你是怎么考虑这些的？

Owen, question for Travis. How are you going to structure all this? Are you going to have like shared resources across the divisions? Are you going to have CEOs? Are you going to have many boards? Like, how are you thinking of all of that?

是的，那太好了。嗯，所以让我高兴的一件事是，我没有多个董事会，因为那是我当时就想“哦，天哪，我绝对不想要那样。”嗯，但共享资源只是，这有点像我们必须搞清楚的管理架构、组织架构的极客问题。嗯，好吧，普通的 GNA、财务、法务、人力资源是共享的，然后你会想，好吧，技术方面的基础设施是共享的，制造是共享的吗？有时候你想让制造深入，好吧，我们只做这种制造，但碰巧我们在采矿方面做的很多制造和我们在运输方面做的制造类似，但和我们在食品方面做的制造非常不同。那么，你有一个制造大师吗？你可能有，因为它是一个东西，是一个专业的东西。当你大规模做的时候，你可以得到更好的人才，其他一切也会更好。所以，我猜制造也是其中之一。然后你会想，软件的哪些部分会被锁定？大部分，但不是全部。而且我对此没有所有答案，但这些是作为独立业务运营的业务单元。比如负责采矿的人，就是全力以赴，有很多控制和授权来让采矿成功。嗯，其他情况也一样。是的。是的。这非常有趣。是的。是的。是的。但我的意思是，这就是关键，对吧？我必须让它有点痛苦。否则，我只是，我就是会，这是不可避免的。我就是这么做。是的。是的。下一个问题。Brent。

Yeah, that's super great. Um, so one of the things I'm happy about is that I don't have multiple boards because that's a thing I was just like, "Oh my god, I definitely don't want that." Um but shared resources is just a it's sort of like this is the management architecture organizational architecture geek thing that we got to figure out. Um okay the normal GNA finance legal HR shared then you're like okay infrastructure on the technology side shared is manufacturing shared sometimes you want manufacturing to go deep okay we're just going to do this kind of manufacturing but it just so happens that a lot of the manufacturing that we're doing on mining is similar to uh the manufacturing that we're doing on transport but it's very different than the manufacturing we're doing on food. So, do you have a guru of manufacturing? You probably do because it's a thing. It's a specialized thing. And when you do it at scale, you can get way better talent and just all the other things work better. So, my guess is manufacturing is also one of those things. And then you're like, which parts of software get locked in? Mostly, but not complete. And and I don't have all the answers on that one, but like these are business units that run as separate businesses. Like the guy who runs, you know, mining is just like all in on that and has lots of control and empowerment to make mining successful. Um and and same for the other for the other situations. Yeah. Yeah. It's super interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I mean that's the thing, right? Is like I had to make it a bit painful. Otherwise, I'm just not I'm just like I will make it's just inevitable. I just do that. Yeah. Yeah. Next question. Brent.

嗨，Travis。嗯，你之前说过的一件事是，生气让你成为一个非常好的企业家。嗯，你知道，这很有趣。有时人们说，如果你成功了，并且被复仇的欲望驱使，那就像一种肮脏的燃料。它有用，但它不是你能拥有的最好的燃料来源。我很好奇，在你的职业生涯中，就像你建立的一切，你有没有找到更清洁的燃料来源，或者，是的，你只是，你知道，你对此有什么收获？

Hi Travis. Um one thing that you said earlier was uh being pissed off makes you a really good entrepreneur. Um, you know, there's it's interesting. Sometimes people say that if you're successful and you're driven by a desire for revenge, it's like a dirty fuel. Like it works, but it's not the best source of fuel that you can possibly have. I'm curious throughout your career and just like everything that you've built, have you found a cleaner source of fuel, or yeah, you just what, you know, what's your takeaway on that?

你看，大多数人不知道这个，但在之前，这是 Uber 之前的几家公司，我做了呃一个点对点文件共享系统。被全球 33 家最大的媒体公司起诉，索赔 2500 亿美元，我很生气。我做了一个复仇业务，那就是我要做一个点对点 CDN，就像 Okami，Bit Torrent 遇到 Okami，在 Bittor 出现之前。我的全部目标就是把那些起诉我的家伙变成客户。这就像是一个纯粹的报复业务，就像一个纯粹的报复商店，就像我们走吧。好吧。

Look, most people don't know this, but before, this is a couple companies before Uber, I did a uh a a peer-to-peer file sharing system. got sued for a quarter of a trillion dollars by 33 of the largest media companies in the world and I was pissed. I did a revenge business which was I'm going to do a peer-to-peer CDN like Okami, Bit Torrent meets Okami before Bittor existed. And my whole thing was turn those guys who sued me into customers. It was like a full spite business, like full spite store, like let's go. Okay.

但我认为在很多方面，有一种肮脏的复仇。它可以成功，但如果它来自错误的地方，最终会达不到应有的效果，如果你明白我的意思。早期驱动我的部分原因是对失败的恐惧。那可能意味着彻夜难眠却收效甚微。只是让你有一种锋芒，一种奇怪的气场，让人觉得：哥们，那家伙有点不对劲，对吧？就是这样。你就是不会全力以赴，对吧？

But I think in many ways, there is a dirty revenge. It can be successful, but it ends up being less than what it should be when it comes from the wrong place, if that makes sense. Part of what drove me earlier was a little bit of a fear of failure. And that can mean long nights where you get little done. It just means you have this edge, this weird vibe that people like, dude, something's wrong with that guy, right? And it's just a thing. You're just not going to go all the way, right?

当 Uber 那件事发生，然后我转向新事物，那是在我离开 Uber 大约八个月后，我在做新的事情。是的，我有点再次坠入爱河，你知道。所以人们说：“你对 Uber 生气吗？这事让你煎熬吗？它在你脑海里吗？” 而我只是，当你再次坠入爱河时，你不会太想前任。如果你从那个状态出发，你可以以一种美好的、统一的方式创造。如果你明白我的意思。是的。这很重要。而且你需要努力才能达到那个状态，可能随着时间推移。但当我到达那里时，我已经在那里了。是的。

When the Uber thing happened and then moved on to new stuff, which was like eight months after I left Uber, I was doing the new thing. Yeah, I kind of fell in love again, you know. So people said, "Are you pissed off about Uber? Does that grind you? Is it on your mind?" And I just, when you fall in love again, you don't think about the ex very much. And if you come from that place, you can create in a beautiful, unitary way. If that makes sense. Yeah. It's important. And you got to work on it to get to that place, probably over time. But by the time I got there, I was there. Yeah.

也许最后一个问题。哦，顺便说一句，你不能为了达到那个状态而拼命。好的。为了我们的兄弟马克，为了我们的兄弟马克。我还是要就那一点辩论一下。好的。

Maybe one last question. Oh, and by the way, you can't be maxing to get to that place. Okay. For our boy Mark, for our boy Mark. I gotta still have a debate on that one. All right.

是的。问题。你提到过，我记得那张幻灯片。我会永远记住它。杀手老板。对亚当斯来说，杀手老板是什么？尤其是在这个……

Yeah. Question. You mentioned I remember this slide. I'll remember it forever. Killer boss. Was the killer boss for Adams? Especially in this...

什么是杀手老板？那是什么意思？

What is the killer boss? What does that mean?

最终 Boss。抱歉。

Final boss. Sorry.

最终 Boss。

Final boss.

是的。

Yeah.

哦，最终 Boss。杀手老板是我的说法。远战。看，这里有巨大的机会。也许最终 Boss 就像，我不知道是不是最终 Boss，但我就随便聊聊这个概念。这个房间里和不在这个房间里的很多人都会乐意击败我。我不是说坏话，但我们是在为下一次工业革命而竞争。你知道，魔术师约翰逊、拉里·伯德是那种人，但他们会互相踢屁股，对吧？所以这对这群人来说是错误的类比，但你懂的。就像帕特里克·尤因，你知道，有些人……好吧。但我认为那实际上非常重要。

Oh, final boss. Killer boss is my version. Far fight. Look, there's huge opportunities here. It's maybe the final boss is like, I don't know if the final boss, but like I'll just riff a little bit on this concept. There are a lot of people in this room and not in this room who will gladly vanquish me. And I don't mean that in a bad way, but we're competing for the next industrial revolution. You know, Magic Johnson, Larry Bird were like kind of guys, but like they'll kick each other's butt, right? So that's the wrong analogy for this crew, but you get it. It's like Patrick Ewing, like you know, some... Okay. But I think there's that, that is actually pretty important.

有没有像终极者？当你进入这样的领域时，你必须总是思考，谁是工业 AI 中最好的？有人想猜吗？很明显。他的名字和“on”押韵。好的。他是最好的，而且他会继续前进，做更多的事情，即使你现在做的不是他现在做的。所以如果你想进入最终 Boss 模式，我的意思是，我甚至不知道他的最终 Boss 是谁。就像人们说：“哥们，埃隆是山羊。”我说：“哥们，我是小山羊。太好了。”你知道，但也许他就是最终 Boss，你知道。但当然，非常尊重。他显然是遥遥领先的最佳。所以无论如何，是的，我不确定如何回答，但那是随便聊聊。

Is there like an ultra? Like you have to always think when you go into a space like this, you go, who's the best of the best at industrial AI? Anybody want to guess? It's really obvious. His name rhymes with on. Okay. He's the best of the best and he'll just keep going and keep doing lots more even if what you do now is not what he does now. So if you want to go final boss mode, I mean, I don't even know who his final boss is. Like people like, "Dude, Elon's the goat." I'm like, "Dude, I'm a baby goat. It's great." You know, but that maybe he's the final boss, you know. But mad respect, of course. He's obviously the best by a long shot. And so anyways, yeah, I'm not sure exactly how to answer, but that was a little riff on it.

是的，也许我们以这个问题结束，那就是你从未离开，但你在洞穴里待了一段时间。你知道，你当时专注于……

Yeah, maybe we'll end on this question, which is you've never left, but you were in a cave for a while. You know, you were focusing...

我在 2019 年给领导团队做了一次演示。标题是“Be Uniconic”。我们有一个庞大的高保真剧本，关于如何不让我们做的任何事情引起注意。我们有数千名员工不允许在 LinkedIn 上放我们公司的名字。

I had a presentation that I gave to my leadership team in like 2019. The title was "Be Uniconic." We had a massive high-fidelity playbook on how to not get attention for anything we did. We had thousands of employees who were not allowed to put our company on LinkedIn.

那很奇怪。

It was weird.

所以这可以说是你的出柜派对。你重新回到了潮流中。谈谈你如何看待硅谷或整个科技行业从你身处中心到八年后回归的变化。有什么让你惊讶的，或者我们作为一个行业所处的位置最值得注意的是什么？

So this is your coming out party, so to speak. You're back in the flow. Talk about how you've seen Silicon Valley or the tech industry at large change from when you were right in the center of it to coming back eight years later. What would have surprised you or what's most notable about where we are as an industry?

看，我认为可能最酷的事情之一，这也是我为什么现在出来而不是之前的原因，是媒体格局已经完全改变了。10 年前的媒体格局，90% 的言论都是非常负面的。商业已经变成了政治，而我们当时不知道。所以想想你最喜欢的政治家，如果你有的话。我的意思是，你们很多人可能没有，但我们就假装你有，好吗？这很搞笑。好的，但我们就说，拿你最喜欢的政治家，在 Google 上输入他的名字。你认为你会找到什么好东西吗？你会发现的就是一波又一波的负面浪潮。当然，如果流血，就领先，对吧？这是人性，有负面情绪，那会带来点击量等等。但我们当时不习惯，我们认为《纽约时报》说的都是真的，我们现在知道那甚至不接近真实，我们现在明白了。

Look, I think probably one of the coolest things, and this is part of why I'm out versus not before, is that the media landscape has completely changed. The media landscape 10 years ago, 90% of what was said was very negative. Business had become politics and we didn't know it. So think of your favorite politician if you have one. I mean, many of you may not have one, but let's just pretend you did, okay? It's hilarious. Okay, but let's just say, take your favorite politician. Go type his name in on Google. What do you think you're going to find anything good? It's going to be just tsunami waves of negativity is what you're going to find. Of course, if it bleeds, it leads, right? And that's human nature and there's negativity and that gets the clicks and the whole thing. But we weren't used to it then and we thought everything that the New York Times said was real and we know now that that's not even close to true and we now understand.

所以媒体格局就像，是的，你不需要和那些家伙说话，你可以去和大卫·森拉说话。你可以去和乔·罗根或你选择的人说话，你可以在一个不像毛时代中国的批斗会那样的环境中说出你需要说的话，对吧？所以这是一个巨大的变化。我认为，你知道，埃隆买下 Twitter 就像是我们能够说出自己的想法、让不同意见不再是非法的开始。这是大事。我们都应该为此感谢埃隆。它让你可以这样，好吧，像我这样基本上只是说，好吧，我想建设。我不想在我决定要建设什么时考虑《纽约时报》会写什么。我不得不模仿在俄罗斯当资本家的感觉，他们的头号 KPI 叫做“闭嘴”。我做了八年。以一种奇怪的方式，出于不同的原因，但就是这样。所以我们现在已经摆脱了那种模式，或者正在摆脱那种模式，让我们走吧。我认为这是过去八年对我们所有人来说最大的变化。上帝保佑，希望这能继续下去。

And so the media landscape is like, yeah, you don't have to talk to those guys and you can go and talk to a David Senra. You can go and talk to Joe Rogan or name your guy and you can say what you need to say in an environment that's not like a struggle session in Mao's China, right? So that's a big freaking change. And I think it's, you know, Elon buying Twitter is like the beginning of us being able to speak our minds and for disagreeing to not be illegal. That's a big deal. We should all thank Elon for that. And it allows so you go, okay, somebody like myself who basically was just like, okay, I want to build. I want to not think about what the New York Times is writing when I make decisions about what I build. I had to emulate what it's like being a capitalist in Russia, which is their number one KPI is called "shut the f*** up." And that's what I did for eight years. In a weird way, it was like that for different reasons, but it was like that. And so we're now out of that mode or getting out of that mode and let's go. And I think that's the biggest change for all of us in the last eight years. And God bless and hopefully that continues.

我认为这是一个很好的结束点。特拉维斯回来了。特拉维斯从未离开。为特拉维斯鼓掌。

I think it's a great note to wrap on. Travis is back. Travis never left. Give it up for Travis.

谢谢。

Thank you.