设计 Macintosh：苏珊·凯尔谈图标与字体

你好，我是苏珊·凯尔，接下来要讲点完全不同的东西。我是一名图标设计师，参与过很多科技项目。我想谈谈我曾工作过的一家科技初创公司，尽管 Macintosh 团队是苹果的一部分。我觉得很多经历与今天听到的一些话题有共鸣。我干这行已经很久了，而且很热爱。这是我多年来设计的一些东西。有趣的是，这确实是 Macintosh 团队的北极星，但最近几天重读时，它让我想起了 AI 和现在正在开发的许多东西。保罗·兰德是一位著名的平面设计师，已经去世了，他设计了 UPS 标志、IBM 标志以及许多经久不衰的图像。我有幸与他共事，他告诉我，要始终专注于让事物有意义且令人难忘。我认为核心是：先有好点子，形式自然随之而来。

Hello. I'm Susan Kare and now for something completely different. I've been an iconographer and designer, and I've worked on a lot of tech projects. I want to talk about a tech startup I worked for, even though the Macintosh group was part of Apple. I think a lot of the experiences resonate with some of the topics that I've heard here today. I've been doing this for a while and love it. Here are a few things that I designed over the years. It's funny because this was really a North Star for the Macintosh group, but when I reread it in the last couple of days, it reminded me of AI and so many things that are being developed now. Paul Rand is a celebrated graphic designer, no longer with us, who did the UPS logo and IBM logo and so many images that have persisted. I was lucky to work with him, and something he told me was always focus on making things meaningful and memorable. I think the heart of that is have a good idea and then the form will follow.

我完全是个艺术生，对电脑一窍不通，但很幸运能在苹果的 Macintosh 团队担任 Macintosh 艺术家。去苹果之前，我在阿肯色州的一家博物馆焊接一只真人大小的野猪雕塑。我以为自己正过着梦想中的生活，整天在车库里焊接，但实际上有点孤独。我很庆幸有那段经历，但也让我渴望与团队合作。我的高中朋友安迪·赫兹菲尔德是苹果的系统软件程序员，他知道我做过年鉴、喜欢艺术。他说他需要一些图像来展示一台正在开发的新电脑，他给我看了没有外壳的显示器，问我能否来面试，做点小符号和字体。我说当然，我觉得这听起来很棒、很有趣，是我没做过的事。我在费城富兰克林研究所科学博物馆工作时积累了一点排版经验。我用这样的机器为展品制作标签，而且我很擅长 Letraset 转印字，能贴得很直，字距也调得准。但我去了帕洛阿尔托的图书馆，借了一些排版书和字体样册，面试时还夹在胳膊下带去了，好让自己显得很懂行。安迪还建议我最好能用方格纸做一些位图图形的示例，他没具体说要做什么。所以我做了一些东西，比如一个池塘里有只靴子、几张纸。你可以在这张幻灯片上看到一点 ABC，但我只是试着做了一些示例。这些是更多的示例。有点好笑，因为这些随机的东西稍微影响了我们最终在软件中使用的设计。

I was a total art major, didn't know anything about computers, and was lucky enough to work at Apple on the Macintosh as the Macintosh artist. Before I went to Apple, I was welding a life-size razorback hog for a museum in Arkansas. I thought I was living my dream going out to my garage welding all day, but in truth it was a little bit lonely. I was glad I had the experience, but it kind of made me hungry for working with a team. My high school friend Andy Hertzfeld was a system software programmer at Apple, and he knew I had worked on the yearbook and liked art. He said he needed some images to display on a new computer that was being worked on, and he showed me the display which didn't have a case, and said could I come in for an interview to work on some small symbols and some typefaces. I said sure, I thought it sounded great and really interesting, something I hadn't done before. I had a little bit of typographical experience from working at the Franklin Institute Science Museum in Philadelphia. I used a machine like this to make labels for exhibits, and I was pretty good at Letraset rub-down type, I could do it really straight and get the kerning right. But I went to the library in Palo Alto and took out some books about typography and some font sample books, and I actually brought them to my interview under my arm so I would seem as if I knew what I was talking about. Andy also suggested to me that it would be good if I could make some examples of essentially bitmap graphics but using graph paper, and he didn't really specify what to make. So some things I made like a pond with a boot and some pieces of paper. You can see on this slide there's a little bit of an ABC, but I just tried to make some examples. These are more of the examples. Sort of funny because some of these really random things slightly influenced what we ended up using in the software.

所以我剧透了惊喜，但我得到了这份工作，而且我觉得尽管我做了准备，也没人问我任何关于字体设计的问题。命运弄人，尽管我曾那么想成为艺术家，现在那个我带去面试的、画着早期图标的笔记本成了 MoMA 的永久收藏。所以，一定要留住你的东西。

So I spoiled the surprise but I got the job, and I don't think anybody even asked me any questions about font design despite my prep. In a funny twist of fate, as much as I had wanted to be an artist, now that notebook with those early icons that I took to my interview is in the permanent collection of MoMA. So just hang on, definitely hang on to your stuff.

我到苹果的第一天，有人给我看了这个屏幕，说这就是你要改进的东西。5.25 英寸软盘图上的字体和圆角矩形可以变成图标，但可以用光标点击并拖动它们。所以这对我来说已经有点神奇了，我们确实把“do it”改成了“OK”，因为“do it”有点不雅，人们会读成“don't”。我想设计一种新的系统字体和一些图标。有人非常真诚地告诉我，我们正在努力制造一台任何人都能用的电脑。我对此感觉很好，因为我在那个团队里，尽管我也乐意参与并参与过许多不适合我的项目，但我喜欢这个项目这一点。我们希望它尽可能易懂，这样你就不一定需要手册，而且它应该友好，因为在我所在的 Mac 软件团队里，有很多人对电脑充满热情，有点想传道授业。

When I got to Apple, the first day this screen was shown to me to say this is what it's your job to improve. The fonts and the round rects that are on the 5 and 1/4 inch floppy drawing could become icons, but they were able with a cursor to click and drag those around. So it already seemed a little magical to me, and we definitely changed 'do it' to 'OK', because 'do it' was a little off-color, and people read it as 'don't'. I wanted to make a new system font and make some icons. It was told to me, very sincerely, that we were trying to make a computer that anyone could use. I felt good about that because I was in that group, even though I am happy to work on and have worked on many projects that weren't for me, but I like that about this project. We wanted it to be as understandable as possible, so you wouldn't necessarily need a manual, and that it should be friendly, because there were so many people there in the Mac software group, where I was, who were just passionate about computers and kind of wanted to be evangelical about that.

有一些限制，我通常认为在任何限制下你都能发挥创意。你可以在海滩上散步时用垃圾做出很有趣的艺术品。你可以有创意，但最好理解限制是什么，然后为此感到兴奋，而不是因为没有一千种颜色而沮丧。所以这是 16×16 的黑白图，我想我用这些限制做的第一批图像就是这样的。我们想也许套索是包围不规则区域的好方法，还有其他一些绘图工具。我觉得有趣的是，我最近第一次去了巴黎，那里有一位叫“太空入侵者”的街头艺术家，他做了很多马赛克作品，而且他大量借鉴了早期 Macintosh 的东西，这让我非常开心。

There were a few constraints, and usually I think you can be creative in any constraints. You can make some pretty fun art with beach trash while you're walking around. You can be creative, but it's good to understand what the constraints are, and then be excited about that as opposed to being upset that you don't have a thousand colors. So this is 16 by 16 black and white, and I think the first images that I made using those constraints were things like this. We thought maybe a lasso would be a good way to surround an irregular region, and some other art tools. It's funny to me because I went to Paris for the first time fairly recently, and there's a street artist known as Space Invader, and he does a lot of mosaic work, and he has borrowed liberally from early Macintosh stuff, which made me really happy.

我设计的第一款字体是 Chicago。它大写字母高度为 9 像素，我看着屏幕上的东西，觉得它们都是锯齿状的，用水平、垂直和 45 度角让它看起来更整齐似乎不是什么大问题。我至今看到那个小写 x 还是会皱眉，但其他的我基本都能融入系统。我们很幸运能在 Macintosh 上实现比例字体，因为我记得以前看到的显示器上 M 被压得很扁，而 I 又很宽。我当时没意识到这个进步有多重要，但它确实让显示效果好了很多。所以我们用了 Chicago，把它放在标题栏里，做了很多实验才想出那些线条。我们当时没意识到，设计计算器时，我们其实是在设计第一代 iPod，它也用了 Chicago，这让我很开心。

The first font I designed was Chicago. It's nine pixels tall cap height, and I looked at the stuff that was on the screen, and it just seemed as if it was all jaggedy, and it didn't seem as if it would be that big a deal to make it look tidier by using horizontals and verticals and 45° angles. I still wince when I look at especially that lowercase X, but the others I could pretty much fit into the system. We were so lucky on the Macintosh to be able to do proportionally spaced fonts, because I could remember just seeing displays where the M was really squished and then the I was really wide. I didn't realize what a big deal this advancement was, but it seemed to make it look a lot better. So we used Chicago. We put it in the title bar, experimented a lot until we came up with those lines. What we didn't realize was that when we designed the calculator, we were designing the first iPod, which also used Chicago, which made me happy.

我们还随 Mac 发布了一些其他字体，包括一种等宽字体，但我能想到，嗯，我们可能应该有一种类似 Times Roman 的字体和一种类似 Helvetica 的字体。所以 New York 和 Geneva 就由此而来。然后我做了一种字体，我称之为 ransom，因为那是绑匪惯用的手法，从报纸上剪下字母，以免暴露笔迹被抓。和其他字体一样，安迪和我给它们起了城市名。

We shipped some other fonts with the Mac, including a monospace font, but I was able to kind of think, well, we should probably have a Times Roman kind of thing and a Helvetica kind of thing. So that's where New York and Geneva came from. And then I made a font that I called ransom because it was what kidnappers used to do by cutting letters out of the newspaper so they wouldn't have to reveal their handwriting and get caught. Like the other fonts, Andy and I gave them city names.

因为我们高中是在费城附近上的，所以我们就用了 Paoli 本地线上那些从郊区到市区的城镇名来命名。有一天下午，史蒂夫·乔布斯路过。他通常会在一天快结束时过来，在软件组转转，看看有什么新东西。他说，城市名倒不差，但至少得是世界级城市吧。所以，我们最后用了纽约和日内瓦，而不是我们高中所在地的帕洛阿尔托、温伍德和罗斯蒙特。

And because we had gone to high school near Philadelphia, we gave them names of towns on the Paoli local through the suburbs into the city. And Steve Jobs came by one afternoon. He usually came by at the end of the day and walked around Software Group to see what was new. And he said, well, city names aren't bad, but at least call them a world-class cities. So, that's how we ended up with New York and Geneva instead of Pal Alto and Winwood and Rosemont where our high school was.

比尔·阿特金森是编写 MacPaint 的程序员，那当然是我最喜欢的程序，而且他很乐意和我合作设计图标和图案。他开发了一台早期的扫描仪，我们就是这样得到了那张来自史蒂夫·乔布斯拥有的木刻版画中的艺伎图像。我们还做了一个控制面板，当你更改设置时会有动画，希望能传达会发生什么以及你的选择是什么。我们显然尝试过，不是我们能用声音、能用速度，而是我们尽量不用任何文字，这样它就能国际化，而无需制作不同版本。你知道，我们当时并没有那么多真正很棒的艺术工具，但不管怎样，我们还是勇往直前了。

And Bill Atkinson was the programmer who wrote MacPaint, and that was my favorite program, of course, and was happy to collaborate on the icons and the patterns, and he developed an early scanner, and that's how we got this geisha image from a woodcut that Steve Jobs owned. And we made a control panel that had animation for when you change the settings, hoping to communicate what would happen, and what your choices were. And we tried, obviously, not we could use sound, we could use speed, but we tried not to have any text so that it could be international without having to make a different version. And you know, we didn't have that many really great tools for art, but whatever, we forged ahead.

安迪写道：“我一到苹果就不用在方格纸上设计了。”安迪写了一个图标编辑器，这是一张 ImageWriter 打印出来的屏幕截图，显示着图标编辑器的样子，里面没有任何工具。你只能切换位图，但你可以看到放大的图像，以及图标在 72 DPI 下的样子，我觉得这简直太神奇了，即使它没有 20 级撤销，也不能画任何形状。你可以不用橡皮擦就进行迭代。怎么强调它的伟大都不为过，而且它会自动生成图标的十六进制代码，我可以输入这些代码然后在屏幕上看到图像。所以，这真是个奇迹。

Andy wrote, "I did not have to design on graph paper once I got to Apple." Andy wrote an icon editor, and this is an image writer, a picture of an image writer print of what the screen looked like with the icon editor, and there were no tools. You could just toggle the bits, and you could see a greatly enlarged image as well as what the icon looked like at 72 DPI, and I thought this was just magical, even though it didn't have 20 levels of undo and you couldn't draw any shapes. You could iterate without an eraser. It's hard to overstate how great this was and it automatically generated the hex code for an icon, which I could then type in and see the image on the screen. So, it was a marvel.

这个图标不是在哭。那可能是我在边缘数像素，因为某种原因。你可以看到在标题栏里，我们在实验期间尝试了很多不同的东西。有时候我喜欢有人过来坐下，我就会给他们画 32×32 的肖像。人们似乎很喜欢这样，而且当时真的没有办法把照片或图画放进去。所以只能对着真人画。我至今仍然喜欢画这些肖像，我觉得很神奇的是，在一千个点里，如果你反复迭代，就能得到一张有些相似之处的图像。你可以看到右上角是法瑞尔·威廉姆斯，他下面是阿什顿·库彻。他们可没有坐下来让我画。还有一些不太出名的人，以及设计领袖约翰·前田。我最早被分配的任务之一就是，电脑开机时需要一段时间才能启动。所以大家都希望屏幕上有个图像，而且必须是 32×32，因为那只是一台 128K 的 Macintosh。所以，因为电脑启动时会在那里嘎吱作响，我们想展示一些表明一切正常的东西。所以，我觉得微笑很好。我很确定这来自我大约 14 岁时得到的一个徽章的记忆。而且，我喜欢微笑和快乐的东西。

This icon isn't crying. It was probably me counting pixels for some reason down the edge. And you can see in the title bar, we tried a bunch of different types of things during the time we were experimenting. And sometimes I liked to people came and sat and I would do their portrait in 32 by 32. So, people seemed to enjoy that and there wasn't really a way to get a photo in there at the time or even a drawing. So, just had to do it from life. And I still enjoy making those portraits and I think it's kind of amazing that in a thousand dots, if you iterate a lot, you can get an image with some semblance of resemblance. You can see Pharrell Williams is at the top on the right and Ashton Kutcher under him. They did not sit for their portrait. And some people that aren't super well known and John Maeda, who's a design leader. The one thing that one of the first icons I was assigned was it took a while for the computer to boot when it got turned on. So, everybody wanted an image on the screen and it had to be 32 by 32 because it was only a 128 K Macintosh. So, because the computer was sitting there kind of grinding while it started up, we wanted something that showed that everything was okay. So, I thought a smile was good. I'm pretty sure it came from my memory of a button I got when I was about 14. And, I like smiling and happy things.

《理解快乐 Mac》是对斯科特·麦克劳德这本优秀书名的双关，这本书是关于漫画的，但确实也有很多关于用户界面的深刻见解。它是在 Mac 最初发布 10 年后出版的。我从那本书里摘了两幅插图，是斯科特·麦克劳德的，它们解释了我们的图标背后的一些思考，那就是当一张脸，尤其是脸，有很多细节时，它看起来像别人。但是，如果你把它做得非常简单，每个人都能把自己投射进去。我喜欢这个想法。他还表达了类似的观点：细节越少，就越具有普遍性，这就是为什么我认为一个简单的铅笔图画在某些方面比一支带反射的铬笔更能代表写作，后者确实非常花哨，但它是一种非常特殊的笔，不是每个人都会用它来写字。所以，我在图标上的偏好是有一两个显著细节，但不要堆砌很多额外的东西。有点像路标，比如学校路口那两个孩子手拉手的剪影标志，没有技术原因说明他们不能有格子午餐盒、鞋带或唱歌，但那可能会更分散注意力，只会削弱你追求的那种瞬间识别。

Understanding Happy Mac is a play on the title of this excellent book by Scott McCloud, which is about comics, but really has so many good insights about user interface, too. It came out 10 years after the Mac originally did. And I pulled two illustrations from that book, by Scott McCloud, that kind of explains some of the thinking behind our icons, which is that when a face, in particular, has a lot of detail, it looks like somebody else. But, if you make it really simple, everyone can project themselves onto it. And I love that idea. And he expressed a similar thing with the less detail you have, the more universal something is, which is why I think like a simple drawing of a pencil can stand for writing in some ways better than a chrome pen with a reflection, which is real very fancy, but it's a very particular kind of pen that not everybody might write with. So, my bias in icons is a salient detail or two, but don't lard it with a lot of extra stuff. Kind of similar to street signs, like the sign where two kids there's silhouette of two kids holding hands at a school crossing, and there's not a technical reason that they couldn't have plaid lunchboxes and shoelaces or be singing a song, but it would probably be more distracting and just take away from that instant recognition that you're aiming for.

我们也犯了一些错误。有人告诉我，作为快乐 Mac 的替代方案，在极不可能发生 Mac 出问题的情况下，应该有一个不快乐的 Macintosh。所以，我想也许是一个生病的 Macintosh 或者看起来有点宿醉的样子。而且，我再次可以无礼，因为没有人会看到这个，至少有人是这么告诉我的。这个图标也一样。他们需要一个表示系统完全故障的图像，当然，同样没有人会看到。所以，我想也许放一个炸弹会有点好笑，就像兔八哥那种炸弹，但不幸的是，人们确实看到了这个，有一次我在软件组工作，那是一个玻璃房间，鱼缸式的，前台接待员说有一个电话打到苹果，是一个真的需要和软件组的人谈谈的人，不是和我，关于她的 Macintosh，因为打电话的人担心她看到的是一个炸弹，她的电脑会不会爆炸，所以我感到有点内疚。

We made some mistakes, too. I was told that as an alternative to the happy Mac, if in the extremely unlikely event something went wrong with the Mac, there should be an unhappy Macintosh. So, I thought maybe a sick Macintosh or looks a little hungover. And again, that I could be irreverent because no one was going to see this, at least that's what I was told. Same thing with this icon. They needed an image for total system failure, which of course again, no one would ever see. So, I thought maybe it would be kind of funny to have a bomb, like a Bugs Bunny type of bomb, but unfortunately, people did see this and one time I was working in the software group with was a glass room the fishbowl and the receptionist from the front said a call had come through to Apple from a person who really needed to talk to someone in the software group not me about her Macintosh because the caller was worried that she was looking at a bomb and was her computer going to explode so I felt a little guilt.

但这个故事的道理是大量的迭代，我们从手头的少数几个应用开始，所以我记得我先做了 MacPaint，我喜欢这个想法，因为它是一个过程，看起来有点活跃，然后它可以和一个类似它的文档配对，所以我们的系统有点像动词和名词，这似乎可以很好地支撑下去，因为我们当时可能只有六七个应用，并没有真正想到会有成千上万个应用。警报图标也一样，我试着裁剪一个人，那不是一个方脑袋的人，想法是它是一个裁剪，所以你不知道性别、年龄、发型，或者关于这个人的一瞥的任何信息。而且我之前只见过沙漏计时器作为鸡蛋计时器。看起来像是，“嘿，我们在 80 年代。让我们更新这些东西吧。”所以，我们做了一个手表光标而不是沙漏。这是打印的图标。它有点陷阱。ImageWriter 确实有带侧边孔的纸，可以装到链轮上，当你转动侧边的大旋钮时就会固定。但同样，细节太多。如果我停下来把它做得更简单，它的寿命会长得多。

But the moral of the story is lots of iteration and we started with the handful of applications that we had and so I did MacPaint first I remember that and I like the idea that since it was a process it looked kind of active and then it could be paired with a document that resembled it so our system was kind of a verb and a noun and it seemed like this could hold up pretty well for the because we only had maybe half a dozen applications and didn't really have the mindset that there would be thousands of applications same with alerts I tried to crop a person it's not a person with a little square head it's the idea is it's a crop so you don't know the gender or the age or the hair do or really anything about this glimpse of a person. And I had only seen a sand timer as an egg timer. It seemed like, "Hey, we're in the '80s. Let's like update these things." So, that's we made a watch cursor instead of an hourglass. This was the icon for print. And it's kind of a trap. The ImageWriter did have paper with holes up the sides that would fit on the sprockets to attach when you turn the big knob on the side. But again, too much detail. It would have had a much longer lifespan if I had just stopped and made it simpler.

所以，总的来说，我认为在图标中展示特定产品设计的图片并不好，比如用 3.5 英寸软盘表示保存。尽管现在还有一些这样的图标存在，但显然它已经过时了。最好使用隐喻，细节恰到好处。

So, in general, I think it's not good in icons to show pictures of a particular product design because like the 3 and 1/2 inch floppy for save. Even though there are still a few of those kicking around, obviously it didn't age well. Better to use a metaphor. Just enough detail.

所以，这就是我们的下拉菜单的样子。在苹果，我们有一个叫 Apple 菜单的东西，原本打算用 Apple 键作为这些键盘快捷键。但有一天快下班时，史蒂夫走进来说：“你们不能这么做。”我记得他称之为“苹果农场”，并说：“我们的标志很珍贵，我们必须尊重它。所以，我们不能有一堆苹果。”

So, this is what our drop-down menus looked like. And we had at Apple what we called the Apple menu, and there was going to be an Apple key for these keyboard shortcuts. But Steve came in one day at the end of the day and said, "You cannot do this." I think he called it an Apple farm and said, "Our logo is precious and we have to respect it. So, you know, we just can't have a bunch of apples."

然后，有人告诉我那个键是命令键或功能键。于是我开始思考“命令”这个词，感觉有点严厉。十诫听起来像个双关语。所以我回到图书馆，在一本书里偶然发现了这个符号，它被称为“功能符号”。

So, then the idea was I was told that that key was a command key or a feature key. And so, I began thinking about commanding and it seemed kind of mean. The 10 Commandments seemed like a pun. So, back to the library and I came across this image in a book that was called a feature.

所以我想：“好吧，它看起来有点像四叶草，有点幸运的意思；又有点像苜蓿叶式立交桥，可能代表快速到达某处。”最终我们采用了它，而且它还有一个好处，就是在 16×16 的像素网格上很容易绘制。所以我们用了这个符号，它至今还在键盘上。但我有点遗憾它太抽象了，而抽象的东西有时比有隐喻强化概念的东西更难记住。

So, I thought, "Okay, it kind of looks like a four-leaf clover. That's sort of lucky and it kind of looks like a cloverleaf highway which might be a way to get somewhere fast." So, we ended up and it had the bonus of being really easy to draw in 16 by 16. So, we used that and it's still on the keyboard. But I felt a little bit bad that it was abstract, and sometimes abstract things can be harder to remember than something that has a metaphor that reinforces the concept.

但后来我去了瑞典，在哥德堡下飞机时非常兴奋，因为那里就有这个功能符号，它被用来表示附近有景点，比如纪念碑之类的东西。有个瑞典人一定听到了我的评论，说：“实际上，标志上的那个符号源自一座叫博里霍尔姆城堡的城堡。它是一座废墟，但从上方看，它就像一座有四座塔楼的城堡。所以，那才是这个符号的真正含义。”

But I went to Sweden and I was so excited to get off the plane in Gothenburg and there is the feature key, because it's used there to indicate that you're near, like for sightseeing, like a monument or something else. And someone from Sweden must have heard me comment on this and said, "Actually, that symbol on the signs is derived from a castle called the Borgholm Castle. It's a ruin, but when you see it from above, you see that it's like a castle with four turrets. So, that's actually what that symbol represents."

所以，我觉得很有趣，即使事后发现它确实像某个东西。你知道，学过艺术史的人都知道，太阳底下无新事。人们制作小符号已经有很长时间了。

So, I thought it was fun to find out even after the fact it did look like something after all. And you know, you study art history, you know, there's not much new under the sun. People have been making little symbols for a long time.

而且，不，这不是我设计的。象形文字曾经盛行一时。这幅漫画有点展示象形文字正在回归。还有一些非常漂亮的位图字体，是很久以前开发的。这个字体的高度只有 7 像素。所以我觉得，真希望我们有那位设计师。

And no, I did not design this. Hieroglyphics had their day. This is a cartoon kind of showing that hieroglyphics are sort of back. And there's some really nice bitmap fonts developed pretty long ago. This has only a seven pixel capital height. So, I thought that was, I wish we had that person.

还有很多雕刻，带有符号、文字和插图，与我们在电脑上做的事情相似。而且，又是一个非常漂亮的位图字体，比我们开始制作比例字体早了两百多年。这是一个很好的例子。这个字符高度大约 10 像素。

And there's a lot of carvings with symbols and text and illustration that resemble some of the things that we were doing on the computer. And again, another extremely nice bitmap font 200-plus years before we sat down to make our proportionally spaced fonts. Here's a very nice example. This has about a character height of like 10 pixels.

我意识到，也许我从小就被注定或训练成想在网格上创作的人，因为过去流行买一些小套装，让孩子给父母做一个烟灰缸。我很喜欢做这类东西。

And I realized that maybe I was destined or trained from a young age to want to make things on a grid because it used to be acceptable to get little kits so your kids could make the parents an ashtray. And I loved making this type of thing.

而且我愿意认为，1984 年的 Macintosh 上就有表情符号了，在短信出现之前，你就可以把图片和文字结合起来。这里还隐藏着一些东西。它显然有象形文字的前身，我在里面藏了一些象形文字类型的符号。

And I like to think that there were emojis in the 1984 Macintosh that you could combine pictures with text before there was texting. And there's a few things hidden in here. It obviously had a hieroglyphic antecedent and I hid some hieroglyphic type symbols in there.

但我认为，那个项目和图形设计的全部意义，并不只是关于像素网格。它关乎隐喻、想法以及一切背后的意义。

But I think the whole point of that project and the graphics was it isn't really just about a grid of pixels. It's the metaphor and the idea and the meaning behind everything.

所以，这只是我快速浏览一下为 Swatch 设计的一些图标选项，他们想要一个闹钟图标。所以，我当然从时钟开始，让它更吵闹一些。然后让它看起来更直观一些。然后再大声一点，也许更简单。或者，如果你看到这个，可能会想到“哦，这是一个旅行闹钟”。

So, this is just a super quick run through of some icon options that I did for Swatch and they wanted an alarm. So, of course I started with a clock and made it noisier. And then made it look a little bit more literal. And then a little louder. And simpler maybe. Or maybe it should look like, "Oh, it's a travel alarm clock." would be in your head if you saw this.

然后我觉得这太自我指涉了。为什么要在时钟上放一个时钟？所以，我做了其他看起来有点吵闹的东西作为选项，比如这个阿尔法闹钟。重点在于，这真的不是一门精确的科学。

And then I thought way too self-referential. Why would you want a clock on a clock? So, I was making other things that looked a little bit noisy as options. And like the alpha alarm clock. The point just being this is so not an exact science.

而且我总是喜欢展示客户要求的东西，或者程序员可能用作占位符的东西，因为这样我得到了很多好主意。然后也许再稍微完善一下。

And I always like to show either what a client asks for or what a programmer might have used as a placeholder because I've gotten so many good ideas that way. And then maybe refine them a little bit.

但在苹果工作之后，我为微软做了 Windows 3.0 的工作。彩色，即使只有 16 色，而且有些颜色不太好，但能使用红色表示警报，并且有颜色作为另一个选项时，一眼就能更容易区分，这仍然很棒。

But after I worked at Apple, I did a job for Microsoft on Windows 3.0. And color, even if 16 colors, and some of them weren't very good colors, but it was still so nice to have to be able to use red for alerts and to differentiate at a glance a little easier when you had color as another option.

我想做出一些不像花哨的喷气式棋盘的东西。你知道，当时有很多那样的插图。所以，这里使用了全部 16 种颜色，但通过抖动处理，让它们看起来更柔和一些。

And I wanted to make something that didn't look like a garish jet chessboard. You know, there were a lot of illustrations like that. So, this is all those 16 colors but dithered so that they appear a little more subtle.

我还做了一些事情，我想屏幕上总有办法让你沉迷于某样东西。在 90 年代，很多人玩纸牌游戏。我不得不把它从电脑上删掉，以免玩得太多。

And I also did something that I guess there's always a way to get addicted to something on your screen. And in the '90s, a lot of people played Solitaire. I had to take it off my computer so I didn't play too much.

当时的 Slate 认为纸牌游戏产生了影响。我只想展示一些我在苹果之后几十年里制作的图片，以及一些我想与你们分享的好建议的例子。

And Slate of the time thought that Solitaire made a dent. And I'm just going to show a few images that I made in the decades after Apple and before some examples of good advice that I wanted to share with you.

所以，我为很多客户工作过，我们不会一一讨论，我对此非常感激。同样，有些东西很有趣，有些很严肃，有些则刻意想显得商业化。

So, I've worked for a lot of clients and we're not going to talk about them all and I feel so grateful. Again, some things that were fun and some things that were serious and some things that wanted self-consciously to seem like business.

但我为 General Magic 做过一个项目。我设计了标志。我们有一种不同的桌面隐喻，更直白一些，有走廊和门。我认为我们最糟糕的设计是“文本罐”，因为为什么？但当时的想法是，你可以通过逻辑地找到东西来记住它们的位置。

But I worked on a project for General Magic. I did the logo. And we had a different kind of desktop metaphor that was a little more literal with hallways and doors. And I think the very worst thing we had was jars of text because why? But the idea was that you could remember where things were by going and finding them in a logical way.

我有时会笑，因为这些东西都消失了。比如没有 Rolodex 名片盒，没有那样的电话。但在当时，是的，没有文件柜——我的意思是现在还有文件柜，但在当时，你可以点击那些抽屉，它们会弹出来，你可以把任何东西放进去。那是一个有趣的项目，只是没有——我们可以发送明信片，但它没有完全预见到电子邮件。

And I kind of laugh once like all these things are gone. Like no Rolodexes, no phones that look like that. But at the time, yeah, no file cabinets—I mean there still are file cabinets, but at the time you could tap on those drawers and they would come out and you could put whatever you wanted in there. And that was kind of a fun project that just didn't—we could send postcards, but it didn't quite anticipate email.

我为 Facebook 做过一个项目，你不能只是上传图片，但你可以花一美元购买图片，就像真的一美元，然后发送给别人。所以，我认为这是一个很棒的项目，有点像开一家礼品店，你能画出什么，让人愿意花一美元拥有或分享给别人。

I worked for Facebook on a project that you couldn't just upload images, but you could buy images for a dollar, like a real dollar and send them to people. So, I thought this was a wonderful project of kind of having a gift shop and what could you draw that someone would want enough either to have or to share with someone that it was worth spending a dollar on.

我们做了差不多 4 年，每天午夜在美东时间上线一个新礼物，大概过一刻钟，我们就能根据头 15 分钟的销量判断它会不会成为畅销款。我们有一些限量版，我原本以为，如果你做的东西价值几千美元，比如钻石耳环、劳力士，再搞些花哨的，那它卖 1 美元就显得更值。但我学到的是，可爱胜过一切。就是泰迪熊、任何心形的东西，吻痕图案是史上最畅销的。如果我的命就靠卖 1 美元一张的画来保，我现在知道我会画企鹅，因为我们有好几款企鹅限量版，全都卖光了。所以，这真的很有意思。我们和布兰妮·斯皮尔斯还有其他艺人合作过，最后 Facebook 结束了这个项目，因为他们不想和第三方竞争。但存在的时候挺好的。

So, we did this for not quite 4 years and had a new gift every day that launched at midnight on the East Coast and we could kind of tell by maybe quarter after if it was going to be a successful best seller by just how many sold in that first 15 minutes. And we had some limited editions and I thought maybe if you made something that cost thousands of dollars like diamond earrings and a Rolex and did fancy things that it would seem more worth a dollar because it was so expensive. But what I learned was that cute trumped everything. Just teddy bears, anything heart-shaped, the kiss mark was the best seller of all time. And I would say if my life depended on selling a drawing for a dollar, I now know I would draw a penguin because we had multiple limited editions of penguins and they all sold out. So, it was just interesting. We did some collabs with Britney Spears and other entertainers and ultimately Facebook ended this program because they didn't want to compete with third parties. But it was good while it lasted.

然后我为 Pinterest 做了一些图标，有一位很棒的动画师帮了我。我想只要一点点动效，这样时间久了也不会太烦人。我在那里做了很多图标。这不全是给 Pinterest 的，但有些是。我给 stealthmil.com 做了一个 logo，那是一家很棒的公司，但在他们正式 logo 之前，我们做了一个浣熊。因为它处理垃圾的方式类似。这是给《The National》的插画，那是 Amtrak 的杂志。我记得是季刊，他们让艺术家诠释他们的路线图。所以，我想回去做像素化的图标，给那些可以坐火车去的地方，应该会很有趣。我喜欢做 logo。这是给 Magic Puzzle 的，他们真的做很棒的拼图，拼完之后会变个魔术，不是悬浮那种，但我作为艺术家做了 logo 的研究，和这个很接近，给 Picman Bloom 游戏。还有 Paradot，也是个游戏。我喜欢做头像。你知道，头像很自由，因为它们可以代表任何东西。所以，这让我感觉像礼物。你只是想要一个系列，让每个人都能找到打动自己的东西。我刚刚为 Ledger 加密钱包做了这些徽章，那是个比较新的钱包，前面有个小挂件开口，可以个性化，他们真的想要有点复古感。这是给一家风投公司的 logo，理念是走出办公室，去山里工作。在户外工作就是它的理念。戴夫·莫林，一个朋友，我记得是周五打电话来，想要一个形象，还有 T 恤和帽子，周一就要。所以是个急活，但能体验点新东西也挺好玩的。

Then I did some icons for Pinterest where a terrific animator helped me with these. I thought just a little bit of motion so that it wouldn't get really irritating over time. And I made many icons there. This isn't all for Pinterest, but some of them were. I made a logo for stealthmil.com, which is a terrific company, but before they had their real logo, we did a trash panda. And because it dealt with trash in a similar way. And this is an illustration for The National, which is Amtrak's magazine. I think it's a quarterly magazine, and they have artists interpret their route map. So, I thought it might be fun to go back and do pixelated icons for places where you could take the train. And I love doing logos. This is for Magic Puzzle, which really does make these great jigsaw puzzles that after you finish, they perform a magic trick, not levitating, but I was an artist doing studies for the logo, which is pretty close to this for Picman Bloom game. And Paradot, which is a game. And I love doing avatars. You know, avatars are so freeing because they can stand for anything. So, it kind of made me feel like gifts. You just want to have an array that someone can find something that speaks to them. And I just did these badges for a new fairly new Ledger crypto wallet, and it has a little attachment opening in the front so that you can personalize it and they really wanted to have something a little bit retro-looking. And this is a logo for a VC firm where the idea is get out of the office and work in the mountains. Work somewhere outdoors was the idea of this. And Dave Morin, a friend, called and said on a Friday, I think, and wanted to have an image and t-shirts and hats like by Monday. So, kind of a quickie project, but it was fun to get to have a little bit of experience with something that was new.

现在，我想分享一些我遇到的人给我的建议。这不是 Google 的项目。我一直在寻找补充。所以，欢迎你随时给我发来好的建议。来自真正影响过我的人。这位是我之前提到的保罗·兰德，一位了不起的设计师，我记得他大概 15 岁就开始为杂志工作了。他说，他有点像是，所有这些新字体，你不需要那么多。他有点粗鲁。你不需要那么多字体。你只需要知道怎么用好它们。这是他的一些作品。我在一家叫 NeXT 的公司和他共事过，那是史蒂夫·乔布斯离开 Apple 后去的公司，我当然想雇保罗·兰德做 logo，因为他是我偶像。史蒂夫没怎么听说过他，他觉得我们应该搞个竞赛。大概，我从不认为这是获得好创意的最佳方式，但他说我们可以雇五个人或公司，各付 1.5 万，然后挑最好的继续合作。我邀请了一些人，然后我邀请了保罗·兰德，他说，你们付我 10 万美元。我只做一个 logo，你们会喜欢的。事实就是这样，我们确实喜欢，也付了钱，和他共事对每个人都是很棒的学习经历。

And now, I wanted to share some advice that I've been given by people that I met. It's not a Google project. And I'm always looking to add to it. So, I welcome any good advice that you want to send along. By people that really influenced me. And this Paul Rand I mentioned earlier, just a terrific designer who started working, I think, for magazines when he was around 15. And he said that he was kind of like all this stuff with all these new fonts. It's like you don't need that many. He was kind of brusque. You don't need that many fonts. You just have to know how to use them well. And this is some of his work. I got to work with him at a company called NeXT where Steve Jobs went after he had to leave Apple and I of course wanted to hire Paul Rand for the logo because he was my hero. And Steve hadn't really heard of him and he thought we should have a contest. Like probably which I would never think is the best way to get good creative, but he said we could hire five people or firms and pay them each 15k and then we would pick the best and continue to work with them. I invited some people and then I invited Paul Rand and he said you will pay me $100,000. I will do one logo and you will like it. And that is actually what happened and we did like it and we did pay him and it was such a great learning experience for everybody to work with him.

在他给我的其他建议中，这些是他经常用的字体，我注意到他的作品里也倾向于用同样的颜色，我有点想，"好吧，如果 PMS 354 绿对保罗·兰德来说够好，那对我也够好。"我仍然倾向于翻他的书，用他给 NeXT 推荐的一些颜色。他确实，只是随口一说。当我们谈论 logo 时，他真的主张努力想办法在产品名字上做文章，就像他把 NeXT 放进立方体那样。他展示这个作为反面教材。这是几代 AT&T logo 之前的一个，因为他说，"如果你能花大钱做一个随机的符号，那没什么意义。"我的意思是，我想这就是你的 logo 的世界。你知道，你想怎么做都行，但大多数人没有无限的钱。所以，这些是他做的一些 logo，你能看出 Morningstar 有旭日，IBM 是细条纹、商务感。我很喜欢那个 UPS logo，他说，"他做的时候，给他 6 岁的女儿看，问，'凯瑟琳，这是什么？'"据说，她说，"是礼物，爸爸。"他觉得这很好地证明了它易懂。但实际上，它有个盾牌和包裹，可惜他们现代化了，因为我确信有人围桌而坐说，"我们不只是做包裹了。"但我一直希望他们能把它带回来。

Among other advice he gave me, these are the fonts that he tended to use a lot and I noticed in his work he also tends to use the same colors and I kind of thought, "Okay, if PMS 354 green is good enough for Paul Rand, it's good enough for me." And I still tend to look in his books and use some of the colors that he recommended for NeXT. He did and just as an offhand remark say that. And when we were talking about logos he really advocated trying hard to think of a way to do something to the name of the product, kind of the way he put NeXT in the cube. He showed this as what not to do. This is a couple AT&T logos ago because he said, "If you can spend a ton of money to make some random symbol associated that doesn't really mean anything much." I mean, I guess it's the world with your logo. You know, you can do whatever you want, but most people don't have unlimited money. So, these are some logos that he did and you can kind of get the idea that Morningstar has a rising sun and IBM is pinstriped and businesslike. And I love that UPS logo and he said, "When he was doing it, he showed it to his 6-year-old daughter and said, 'Catherine, what is this?'" And reportedly, she said, "It's a present, Daddy." And he thought that that was such great justification that it was understandable. But really, it had a shield and a package and sadly, they modernized it cuz I'm sure there were people sitting around a table who said, "Well, we're not just about packages anymore." But I keep hoping they'll bring it back.

这位是未来学家保罗·萨福，我很喜欢他某天提到的这句话，我有点从隐喻的角度理解，我的意思是，我知道我总是想，"我一个小时就能做完。"实际上，没有什么是花一个小时的。我参与过很多项目，你乐观地以为你完全知道你想做什么，但还是得留出额外时间。这是我爸爸，他是费城莫奈尔化学感官中心的主任，研究味觉和嗅觉。我把我爸爸介绍给保罗·兰德，他给莫奈尔做了那个 logo，我很高兴，他们相处得很好。但我爸爸，我觉得，总是有好建议。不是最令人振奋的建议，但很现实。他得为科学中心筹很多钱，所以他知道自己在说什么。我试着记住这一点，因为，嗯，我听到“不”的时候会沮丧。

And this is a futurist named Paul Saffo and I just loved this quote that he mentioned one day and I kind of get this in a metaphorical way and I mean, I know I always think, "I can do this in an hour." When really, nothing takes an hour. And so many projects I've worked on you optimistically think you know exactly what you want to do, but it's still allow extra time. This is my dad, who was the director of the Monell Chemical Senses Center in Philadelphia, which studied taste and smell. And I introduced my dad to Paul Rand, and he made that logo for Monell, which I felt pretty happy about, and they got along really well. But my dad, I think, always had good advice. It wasn't the most cheerful advice, but it was realistic. And he had to raise a lot of money for the science center, so he knew what he was talking about. And I try to remember that because well, I get depressed when I hear no.

他还说过这句话，我觉得这是一种非常现实、不自欺欺人的思考方式。这位是 Daniel Nord，他出生在瑞典，现在住在葡萄牙，曾在伦敦为市长工作。他是一位建筑师，他告诉我他们过去常常围坐在桌子旁，没完没了地讨论事情。他当时是这么说的：“把它视觉化。”我想这也许也是个比喻，但就是去画出来。我觉得他的意思就是“展示，而非讲述”。

And he also said this, which I think is like a really realistic way to think about things and not be kidding yourself. This is Daniel Nord, who was born in Sweden, now lives in Portugal, and worked in London for the mayor. He's an architect, and he told me how they used to just sit around tables and have endless discussions about things. And this is how he said, "Make it visual." I mean, I guess this is a metaphor, too, but do the drawing. Really, show, don't tell, I think is what he meant.

还有一位在某个圈子里可能很有名的人，叫 Jean-Paul Goude，我是通过 Steve Jobs 认识他的。他算是 Apple 的粉丝。他可能发明了自拍，而且有很多名人朋友。他父亲是意大利人，创办了 Simca 汽车公司，所以他说：“这样我就可以一辈子想做什么就做什么了。”他收藏非洲艺术品，他还说过一句话，让我觉得很有趣，因为那确实让我觉得我们当年做 Macintosh 是很久以前的事了，而且充满乐趣。

And this is a guy maybe well known in some circles named Jean-Paul Goude, who I met through Steve Jobs. He was kind of an Apple fan. He maybe invented the selfie, but had a lot of celebrity friends, and his father, he was Italian or Italian, and his father started the Simca car company, so that you know, he said, "So that I could like spend my life doing whatever I wanted." And he collects African art, and he said, and this amused me, because it just does seem like a long time ago and a lot of fun that we worked on the Macintosh.

他还说过这句话，我觉得我一直在努力做到。我觉得这是很好的建议。左边是 Andy Hertzfeld、Bill Atkinson、Bud Tribble 和 Steve Jobs，右边是 Alan Kay，他现在已经 80 多岁了，是一位成就惊人的计算机科学家。Bud 引用 Alan Kay 的话，作为关于用户界面的一种信条：也许不必把所有东西都放在同一层级，而是把东西嵌套起来，让东西可以自然出现，这样易用性才显得可能。我一直努力思考这一点。

And he also said this, which I think like I try to do. I think it's good advice. And this is Andy Hertzfeld on the left, Bill Atkinson, Bud Tribble, and Steve Jobs, and Alan Kay on the right, who's a really who's in his 80s now, unbelievably accomplished computer scientist, and this is Bud quoting Alan Kay as a kind of tenet about user interface and maybe not having everything at the same level, and nesting things so that things can just appear that ease of use seems possible. And I always try and think about that.

Alan Kay 对我说过一句话，我听到后非常高兴，因为他说：“是啊，谁知道呢？比例字体看起来居然可以这么漂亮。”

And Alan Kay said this to me, and I thought that was I took great joy hearing that because he just said, "Yeah, it's like, who knew? Proportionally spaced fonts can actually look pretty good."

还有这位，相当有名，他当时坐在我在 Apple 的工位里，他在 80 年代确实说过“珍惜你现在拥有的”。我参加第一次外出会议时，他提出了这三个目标。因为第二个目标，我和一位名叫 Steve Caps 的程序员——Steve Caps 缝了一面黑旗，我在上面画了骷髅头和交叉骨，还画了一个条纹 Apple 作为眼罩，我们半夜去上班，爬上屋顶，因为显然那时候安保松得多，我们升起了那面旗，这其实就是为了回应这个目标，表明我们是海盗。

And this guy, pretty well known, he's sitting in my cubicle at Apple, and he did say in the '80s like appreciate what you have right now. And the first offsite I went to, he put up these three goals. And because of the second goal, a programmer named Steve Caps and I, Steve Caps sewed a black flag and I painted a skull and crossbones on it and put a striped Apple as the eye patch and we went to work in the middle of the night and climbed up on the roof because obviously security was a lot more lax back then and we flew that flag and it was really just as a rejoinder to this that we were the pirates.

还有这个，我也记得。我们过去常常向很多人展示 Mac，我现在仍然会想到这个，因为显然，比如说，有些人能弄明白怎么用，但不是每个人都能。然后会有很大的喜悦，因为他们会觉得自己很聪明，或者如果你说它很容易，而他们仍然有困难，他们也不会觉得自己笨。

And, this, too, I remember. We used to show the Mac to lots of people and I still think of this now because obviously, say, like, some people can figure out how to use this, but not everybody and then there was great joy because they could feel smart or they wouldn't feel dumb if you said it was easy and they still had trouble with it.

这是我从 Steve Jobs 那里得到的唯一一条真正糟糕的建议。他说：“如果 Apple……”我想：“好吧，如果他不买他的股票，我也不买我的。他会知道的。”他还说：“你，Susan，你可以摆弄比特，但永远赚不到超过 2 万美元，或者，你最好当创意总监。”他说的是 NeXT，我当时是创意总监，我有机会和 Paul Rand 合作。那太棒了，但归根结底，我内心是个比特摆弄者，我又回到了那条路，也许不总是比特，但我觉得这有争议，但他带很多来访的高管去看这部电影。我喜欢它，因为里面有 Welder。

This is the only piece of really bad advice I got from Steve Jobs, he said, "If Apple" And I thought, "Well, I'm not going to buy my stock if he's not buying his. He would know." And he also said, like, "You Susan, you can twiddle bits and never make more than $20,000 or like you it's better to be a creative director." He was talking about NeXT and I was a creative director and I got to work with Paul Rand. That was fantastic, but ultimately I was a bit Twiddler at heart, and I went back to it, and maybe not always bits, but I think this is debatable, but he took lots of visiting executives to see this movie. And I liked it because it had Welder in it.

Jay Chiat 创办了 Apple 使用的广告公司 Chiat Day。当时这有点不是工作与生活的平衡，我在软件组共事的每个人都在工位里放了睡袋。我觉得这真的很值得记住。我知道我工作过的几家公司，我们有点认定，15 个人时，你还可以进行共识招聘，每个人都在一个房间里，达成一致，然后你开始有更多人，这有好处也有坏处。

Jay Chiat started the ad agency that Apple used, Chiat Day. And this was kind of the it was not work-life balance at the time, and everybody I worked with in the software group had a sleeping bag in their cube. And I think this is really good to remember. It's I know a couple companies I've worked for, we kind of decided that 15 people, you could still have consensus hiring, and everybody in a room, and be on the same page, and then you start to get more people, and it there's a plus and a upside and a downside.

Andy 说过这个。他给我这个建议，关于向 Steve 展示东西。他说：“不要只给他看一样东西，因为他会说他不喜欢，因为那可能会迫使你再去尝试，做得更好。但如果你展示几样东西，那么他就能参与进来，说某样东西很糟糕，但仍然会挑一个。”

And Andy said this. He gave me this advice showing stuff to Steve. He's like, "Don't show him one thing because he'll say he doesn't like it because it maybe forces you to go try and do it again and be better. And but if you show a few things, then he can be involved and say that something is terrible, but still pick something."

这是我妈妈给我的建议，我觉得这是非常好的建议。这是 Evan Sharp 和 Ben Silbermann，他们创办了 Pinterest，他们有很多好主意，但 Evan 过去常说这句话。这是 Dennis Hwang，他在斯坦福读本科时就开始在 Google 工作，他是一位出色的计算机科学家和艺术家，他告诉我这个，那是 Google 的普遍智慧，我可能也会宣扬同样的事情，比如不要乱动标志，把它换成不同的颜色，放在疯狂的背景上，直到人们非常熟悉它，以至于你可以玩它，但显然他们做到了，Dennis 做了这些。他们在这方面做得很好。

And this is advice from my mom, and I think it's very good advice. This is Evan Sharp and Ben Silbermann who started Pinterest, and they had a lot of good ideas, but Evan used to say this. This is Dennis Hwang who started working at Google when he was an undergrad at Stanford and he's a terrific computer scientist and artist and he told me this that was the prevailing wisdom at Google and I would probably preach the same thing like don't mess around with the logo and put it in a different color and put it on a crazy background until people know it so well that you can play with it, but obviously they did Dennis made these. They did pretty well with this.

这是一位朋友的爸爸告诉我的。这不是政治性的。只是我找到的一张有趣的手风琴图片。你知道这个人，他有很多真正好的建议，包括这个。但我不认为这意味着要灰心丧气，放弃尝试。它只是意味着，哦，也许是时候继续下一个想法了。

And this is something a friend's dad told me. This is not political. It's just a fun picture I found with an accordion. And you know this guy, he has a lot of truly good advice including this. But I don't think it means be discouraged and quit trying. It just means oh, maybe it's time to go on to the next idea.

谢谢。但也要真心感谢 Y Combinator。我今天度过了美妙的一天，一切都进行得非常顺利，每个人都那么亲切。所以，我只是觉得我羡慕每一个参加这次活动的人，因为看起来太酷了。谢谢。

And thank you. But also, really thank you to Y Combinator. I kind of had an amazing day today and everything ran so smoothly and everyone was so gracious. So and it just seemed like I felt envious of everybody taking part in this event because it just seemed so cool. Thank you.