黄仁勋谈 AI 革命：从芯片到智能体 AI

Jensen，非常感谢你接受我们的采访。

Jensen, thank you so much for joining us.

Victoria，很高兴和你交流。

Victoria, it's great to be with you.

是的。在当今世界，很难想象没有你和英伟达的 AI。那么，你能和我们分享一下你对这场 AI 革命的愿景吗？五年后我们会走到哪里？

Yeah. You know, in today's world, it's hard to imagine AI without you and Nvidia. So can you share with us your vision of this AI revolution and where will we be five years from now?

AI 是一项革命性的技术，毫无疑问。就像 IBM 带来的信息技术革命、微软和英特尔带来的个人电脑革命——当然台湾在其中扮演了核心角色——然后是互联网、移动云，现在轮到人工智能。人工智能的重大突破体现在多个层面。一方面，这是一项全新的技术，能够实现以前不可能的全新应用，因为现在你可以理解信息、推理、规划行动方案，甚至通过智能体 AI 采取行动、使用工具。所以人工智能的应用，就像人类一样，非常广泛，潜力几乎无限。但人工智能的意义远不止于此。与许多新技术不同，AI 开创了一个全新的产业。一个很好的思考框架是：AI 不仅仅是一个模型，它实际上是一个五层蛋糕。从最底层开始，它需要能源，因为 AI 是实时产生和生成的，就像你我现在这样。我们需要卡路里、需要能量，才能彼此互动、产生智能、根据你刚才的问题生成答案。而我是第一次以这种方式生成答案，因为我和 CNA 的观众在一起，我在台北，所以背景不同、环境不同，答案也不同。所以这个产业最底层需要能源。下一层是芯片，这就是英伟达和台湾许多公司所在的领域。再上一层是基础设施：土地、电力、数据中心，以及将芯片转化为云服务、转化为数据中心的云服务软件。再上一层是大多数人想到 AI 时想到的：模型。ChatGPT 是革命性的，Claude Code 现在也非常成功。但 AI 远不止人类语言。AI 可以处理几乎任何类型的信息，从英语、中文到视频和图像，但更重要的是蛋白质、化学物质和三维几何，这对制造业非常重要，在台湾尤其如此。这就是模型层。再往上，最终是最重要的：所有这些 AI 技术如何以积极的方式影响社会？那就是像我们这样的信息工作者的应用。我每天都用 AI，你可能也每天都用。但远不止这些。还有软件工程师、芯片设计师、制造经理、工厂经理，一直到自动驾驶汽车、机器人、医疗保健。世界上几乎每一个大产业都会受到影响，并因此被彻底变革。所以对我来说，非常有帮助的是退一步，不只在模型的背景下看 AI，而是在整个产业的背景下看。当你这样做时，你会意识到 AI 正在重塑每一个产业，从能源一直到上述所有应用。

AI is a revolutionary technology. No question. Just like the invention of information technology with IBM and the personal computer with Microsoft and Intel, and of course Taiwan was central to that. The internet, mobile cloud, and now here we are with artificial intelligence. The big breakthrough of artificial intelligence is on multiple levels. On the one hand, it's a brand new technology that enables a whole new class of applications that were impossible before because you can now understand information, reason, plan to come up with an action plan, and even now with agentic AI, you can take action, use tools. So the applications of artificial intelligence, just like humans, are quite vast and almost boundless in potential. But artificial intelligence is more important than that. Unlike many new technologies, AI opens up a whole new industry. A good framework to think about for artificial intelligence is that AI is not just a model. AI is really a five-layer cake. From the lowest level, it requires energy because AI is produced and generated in real time, just like you and I right now. We need calories, we need energy so that we can engage each other and produce, generate intelligence, generate answers based on the question you just asked me. And I can generate it for the very first time in this way based on the fact that I'm with the audience of CNA and I'm here in Taipei. So the context is different, the circumstances are different, so the answer is different. So we need energy at the lowest level for this industry. The next level is chips. This is where Nvidia is and where a lot of the companies in Taiwan are. The layer above that is infrastructure: land, power, data center, as well as the cloud service software that turns the chips into a cloud service, into a data center. The layer above that is where most people think about when they think about AI, which is models. ChatGPT was revolutionary. Claude Code is now incredibly successful. But AI is much more than just human language. AI can process information of almost any kind, from English and Chinese all the way to videos and images, but very importantly proteins and chemicals and three-dimensional geometry, which is really important for manufacturing, which is important here in Taiwan. So that's the model layer. Then above that, ultimately, that's the most important: how does all of this AI technology impact society in a positive way? That would be applications for information workers like ourselves. I use AI every day, you probably use AI every day. But it's much more than that. It's software engineers, chip designers, manufacturing managers, plant managers, all the way to self-driving cars, robotics, healthcare. Just about every large industry in the world is going to be impacted by this and will be revolutionized by this. So the thing that's really helpful for me is to take a step back and look at AI not in the context of just the model but in the context of the whole industry. When you do that, you come to realize that AI is reinventing every industry from energy all the way to all of the applications above.

你提到了智能体 AI。简单来说，它是什么？它将如何改变游戏规则？

And you've talked about agentic AI. Now in simple terms, what is it and how will it change the game?

智能体 AI 之所以被称为智能体 AI，是因为它具有自主性。自主性简单来说就是它有能力自主做事，只需很少的监督或很多监督，就像人一样。智能体流水线有几个阶段。首先，它从背景开始：环境是什么、情况如何、要求你做什么？你要求这个 AI 做什么？所以一开始你会说：你是一位优秀的新闻记者，或者你是一位优秀的软件工程师，我希望你访问这些文件，以此为例，和我一起写软件或写故事。这就是背景和请求。然后，它必须理解背景，规划工作，使用它所能使用的任何工具。可能是浏览器、Word 文档、文字编辑器、C 编译器、Python 编辑器，或者 CUDA 程序。所以它可以找出使用这些不同工具的方法，然后执行、评估、重新评估、重新规划、练习、再次行动、评估，不断迭代直到完成任务，就像我们做的那样。所以它自主执行任务，这就是为什么我们说它是智能体。智能体有两种形式。一种是数字版本，我们称之为 AI 智能体。未来，这些 AI 智能体也会运行在物理身体中，比如机器人。所以机器人本质上是一个物理 AI 智能体。这两个自主系统的例子很可能会高度通用化，非常令人兴奋。

Agentic AI is called agentic AI for its agency. Agency simply means it has the ability to do things autonomously with very little supervision or a lot of supervision, just like people. The agentic pipeline has several stages. One, it starts with what is the context, what's the environment, what's the circumstance, and what is being asked of you. What are you asking this AI to do? So you start with: you are an excellent news reporter, or you're an excellent software engineer, and I would like you to access these files, use this as an example, and I would like you to write the software, for example, or write the story with me. So that's the context and the request. From that, it has to understand the context. It has to plan its work. It has to use whatever tools it uses. It could be a browser, it could be a word document, a word editor, it could be a C compiler, it could be a Python editor, it could be a CUDA program, for example. So it could figure out a way to use these different tools, and then it would perform, and then it would evaluate, re-evaluate, replan, exercise, act again, evaluate, and just keep iterating until it gets the job done, just like we do. So it performs the task autonomously, which is the reason why we say it's agents. Agents have two forms. There's the digital version that we call AI agents. In the future, these AI agents would also run inside a physical body, for example, a robot. So a robot is essentially a physical AI agent. So these two examples of autonomous systems will likely be highly generalized and very exciting.

这会不会让人类思维变得更懒惰？因为如果每个人都有强大的助手，那么精通还会存在吗？

Could that make human lazier thinkers? Because if everyone has a powerful assistant, then what happens to mastery?

我认为你可以以历史为鉴。当个人电脑出现时，我想每个人都说：这会不会让人们变得更懒惰，因为很多工作都会被自动化？然后互联网出现时，人们会不会不再聪明，因为所有信息都触手可及？然后不知不觉，移动云出现了，信息就在我们口袋里，我们再也不需要记住任何东西了。我们有如此多的自动化能力。在这段时间里，计算机的性能提升了百万倍。我们发现自己更忙了还是更闲了？我认为答案是更忙了。原因是我们变得更有野心了。我们能做的事情比以往任何时候都多。今天即将毕业的学生，他们比我毕业时聪明一百倍。他们知道什么、能做什么、对世界的接触、拥有的知识、不知何故汲取的智慧。

Well, I think you could use history as a guide. When the personal computer came along, I think that everybody said: is that going to make people lazier as a result because so much work will be automated? And then when the internet came along, are people going to stop being smart because all the information is at their fingertips? And then before you know it, mobile cloud came along, so it's actually in our pocket, so we don't have to remember anything anymore. We have so many automation capabilities. The performance of a computer increased by a million times during this time. Do we find ourselves busier or less busy? And I think the answer is we found ourselves busier. And the reason for that is because we became more ambitious. The type of things that we could do is greater than ever. Our students today that are graduating, they're a hundred times smarter than when I graduated. What they know, what they can do, their exposure to the world, the knowledge they have, the wisdom that they somehow imbued.

所有这些能力都因信息技术而成为可能，但它并没有让人们变得更轻松。我想你我都承认，我们比以往任何时候都更忙碌。所以我认为同样的事情也会发生在人工智能上。我们在工作中、生活中，有很多任务，这实际上是一篮子任务。一份工作就像一篮子任务，许多小组成部分，总体上赋予了我们工作的意义。它让我们能够实现工作的目的。例如，放射科医生查看图像，也许是超声波、CT 或 MRI 的扫描，但那是他们做的任务。现在这已经完全被 AI 自动化了，但他们的真正目的是诊断疾病、帮助患者康复、帮助他们更好地了解自己的疾病。所以工作的目的是任务的集合，一篮子任务。其中许多任务将被自动化，我的感觉是，由于自动化，我们可以专注于工作中更困难的部分，而工作中更困难的部分因此得到提升。我们可以更有雄心。我的猜测是我们可能会更忙。我刚刚说的与大多数人的说法相反。而我自己就亲身经历过，我就是活生生的例子。你也是活生生的例子。说到工作，每个人都很好奇。我们看到越来越多的公司在大力投资 AI 的同时却在裁员。那么，从 1 到 10，AI 导致的裁员有多不可避免？对那些担心因 AI 而失业的人，你有什么想说的？

All of that capability was made possible because of information technology, but it hasn't made them any less busy. I think you and I would admit we're busier than ever. And so I think the same thing is going to happen to artificial intelligence. We're in our jobs, in our lives. We have many tasks, and it's really a basket of tasks. A job is like a basket of tasks, many small components that in totality bring meaning to our work. It allows us to achieve the purpose of our work. So for example, a radiologist looks at the images, the scans of maybe ultrasounds or CT or MRIs, but that's the task that they do. And now it's completely AI automated, but their purpose is really to diagnose disease, help patients get well, help them understand their disease better. So the purpose of a job is a collection of tasks, a basket of tasks. Many of those tasks will be automated, and my sense is that as a result of automation, we can focus on the harder parts of our work, and the harder parts of our work are elevated as a result. We could be more ambitious. My guess is that we'll probably be busier. I just said the opposite of what most people say. And I have lived it, I'm living proof of it. You are living proof of it. And speaking of jobs, everyone is curious. We are seeing more and more companies cutting jobs while they're investing heavily in AI. So on a scale of 1 to 10, how inevitable are job cuts because of AI? And what do you say to people who are afraid of losing their jobs to AI?

我会对那些担心因 AI 而失业的人说：学习 AI。你不会因为 AI 而失业，你会因为某个比你更懂 AI 的人而失业。当个人电脑出现时，它并没有夺走人们的工作。那些没有学会使用 PC 的人被抛在了后面。当计算机出现时，计算机行业——我有幸被这个行业的惊人增长所席卷。我当然可以拒绝它，转向另一个与计算机无关的领域，那样我就会被抛在后面。所以我的建议是：不要让自己被 AI 抛在后面。现在让我们谈谈正在发生的事情。更有可能是，有雄心的公司会变得更高效。他们会更快地做事。他们的公司会加速发展。结果，他们会变得更大、更盈利。当他们变得更大、更盈利时，他们最终会雇佣更多的人。当然，他们会使用更多的 AI，但他们也会雇佣更多的人。今天的英伟达，AI 遍布整个公司。我们在招聘更多的人。我们行动更快。我们越来越有雄心。过去我们认为需要十年才能完成的事情，现在我认为只需要一两年。所以你的雄心必须被时代的技术所提升。如果你不拥抱你时代的技术，你就会被抛在后面。所以我的建议是拥抱它。至于未来，当人们想到失业和 AI 时，他们看到的是世界上只有这么多工作可做。只有这么多故事可写，只有这么多代码可写，只有这么多产品可设计，只有这么多东西可享受。这显然是错误的。我们的雄心，如果足够大，那么自动化和 AI——自动化的终极版本——将提升你的公司，进而提升 GDP。我们应该能够带来更多的繁荣。

I would say to the people who are worried about losing their jobs to AI: learn AI. You're not going to lose your jobs to AI. You're going to lose your job to somebody who learned AI better than you. When the PC came along, the PC didn't take people's jobs. The people who didn't learn how to use PCs were left behind. When the computers came along, the computer industry, I had the benefit of being swept along with this incredible growth of this industry. I could have of course rejected it and went to another field where computers were not involved, and I could have been left behind. And so my recommendation is: don't allow yourself to be left behind by AI. Now let's talk about what's going on. It is more likely that the companies with ambition will be more productive. They will do things faster. Their company will increase in velocity. As a result, they become larger, more profitable. When they become larger and more profitable, they'll end up hiring more people. And of course, they'll use more AI, but they'll also hire more people. Nvidia today has AI all over our company. We're hiring more people. We're moving faster. We're more and more ambitious. The type of things that we used to think was going to take 10 years, I now think is going to take one or two years. And so your ambition has to be elevated by the technology of the time. If you don't engage the technology of your time, you'll just simply be left behind. And so my recommendation is to engage it. Now the future, when people think about job loss and AI, what they see is that there's only so much work in the world to do. There's only so many stories to write, only so much code to write, only so many products to design, only so many things to enjoy. And that is completely, obviously false. Our ambition, if great, then automation and AI, which is the ultimate version of automation, would elevate your company, would elevate GDP as a result. We should be able to bring more prosperity.

但你预想 AI 会创造什么样的工作呢？

But what kind of jobs do you envision that AI would create?

看看已经在创造的工作吧。首先，记得我给你的 AI 框架：AI 是一个五层堆栈。它需要能源。国家、公司、地区、台湾这个岛屿，如果受限于能源，就会被抛在后面。你需要能源才能享受这个新产业。当你需要时，AI 现在有如此多的市场驱动举措，如此多的市场激励，以至于投入能源领域的投资正在升级我们的电网。它首次自主投资于可持续能源。你只需看看我所有合作伙伴的股价：GE、Verova、三菱、西门子，所有人。任何从事发电、能源发电行业的人，他们的股价都在上涨，他们在招聘更多的人，他们的收入在增加。公用事业公司看到了投资电网的众多机会。再上一层是芯片。英伟达的每一个合作伙伴的股价都在短短几年内翻了三倍。我很高兴看到每个人的成功。从 AI 芯片到 DRAM，当然还有台积电、封装、电源调节器、冷却系统等等，甚至多层陶瓷电容器，都取得了惊人的成功。所以你可以看到，这当然创造了很多工作。再上一层是基础设施。看看全球正在建设多少数据中心。有多少土地被用于建设数据中心。电工、水管工、建筑工人、建筑师、设计师、技术人员、网络工程师，仅在美国就需要数十万个工作岗位。全球可能达到数百万。然后每一层都在继续增长。还有一个统计数据：去年是历史上风险投资额最大的一年。一年内就有 1000 亿美元投入了 AI 原生公司。大量工作正在被创造。所以绝对有证据表明 AI 在创造工作。我最喜欢的例子就是放射学。看看放射学，所有放射科医生在工位前寻找疾病、寻找扫描中的异常，在过去 5 年、10 年里，有人预测这将是第一个被完全消灭的工作。好吧，做出那个预测的研究人员绝对正确。AI 彻底革新了放射学。AI 已经融入放射学的方方面面。然而，放射科医生的数量增加了，对放射科医生的需求增加了，放射科医生的薪酬也提高了。所以我的观点是：如果你成为 AI 的专家，AI 更有可能提升你的工作，提升你工作的目的。试着去拥抱它。不要害怕它。

Well, look at all the jobs that are being created already. Number one, remember I gave you the framework of AI: AI is a five-layer stack. It needs energy. The country, the company, the region, Taiwan, the island, if limited by energy, would simply be left behind. You need energy in order to enjoy this new industry. And when you need it, AI is now so much market-driven initiatives, so much market-driven incentives, that the amount of investment going into the energy sector is upgrading our energy grid. It's investing in sustainable energy all by itself for the first time. All you have to do is look at the stock price of all of my partners: GE, Verova, Mitsubishi, Siemens, everybody. Anybody who's in the power generation, energy generation industry, their stock prices are going up, they're hiring more people, their revenues are increasing. The utilities are seeing so many opportunities to invest in their power grid. The next layer up is chips. Every single partner of Nvidia's stock price has tripled in just a couple of years. I'm so happy to see everybody's success. And so everything from AI chips to DRAMs to, of course, TSMC and packaging and power regulators and cooling systems and you name it. Even multi-layer ceramic capacitors, incredible success. And so you could see it's of course creating a lot of jobs. The next layer above that is infrastructure. Look at how many data centers are being built around the world. How much land is being dedicated to building data centers. And so electricians and plumbers and construction workers, architects and designers and technicians and networking engineers, just the number of jobs will be hundreds of thousands just in the United States alone. And so probably millions around the world. And then just keep going up every single layer. And then one more statistic: last year was the single largest year of venture capital investments in human history. $100 billion in just one year went into AI-native companies. A whole bunch of jobs are being created. And so there's absolutely every evidence that AI is creating jobs. And one of my favorites is literally radiology. If you look at radiology and all the radiologists looking at workstations, looking for disease, looking for anomalies in the scans, in the last 5 years, in the last 10 years, it was predicted that it would be the first job to completely be wiped out. Well, the researcher who made that prediction was absolutely right. AI has completely revolutionized radiology. AI has integrated into radiology in every single respect. However, the number of radiologists grew, the demand for radiologists increased, and the pay of radiologists went up. And so my point is: it is more likely that AI will elevate your job, elevate the purpose of your job, if you become expert at it. Try to engage it. Don't be afraid of it.

当然，行业必须非常谨慎地以安全、有护栏的方式构建 AI，并确保其以恰当的方式部署，最终应用——无论是医疗、交通、制造、航空还是任何应用 AI 的领域——这些行业已有大量法规，它们应重新评估法规，使其为 AI 做好准备。因此，每个人都必须参与其中。你可能记得过去的一些故事。例如，当汽车出现时，存在一个完整的马车行业，那个行业相当庞大。当然，它们已经存在了很长时间，数百年。然后汽车的发明出现了。因为它具有如此变革性，每一项基础设施都必须重新发明。第一，大量新工厂创造了大量就业机会。每一条道路都必须升级。旧道路问题重重。新的社会规范。例如，有一段时间人们认为汽车在杀害儿童。汽车不知何故在杀害儿童。后来发现，这是因为在过去，孩子们真的会在街上玩耍。我还记得我小时候就在街上玩耍。所以孩子们在街上玩。当然，当汽车出现时，许多孩子没有意识到，结果受伤了。于是出现了新的规范、行人法律、行人规则、人行道等等。我们建立了所有这些不同的社会基础设施，以及自动刹车等新技术。所有这些技术，当然还有社会规范，比如不要跑到街上，所有这些不同的条件都必须建立起来以支持整个行业。电力也是如此，等等。人工智能也将如此。

Of course, the industry has to be really thoughtful about building AI in a safe way, in a guardrailed way, and make sure that it's deployed in a proper way, and that the end applications, whether it's in healthcare or transportation or manufacturing or air travel or whatever it is that applies AI, those industries have lots of regulations already and they should re-evaluate the regulations to be AI ready, to be AI prepared. And so everybody has to be part of this. You might remember some stories of the past. For example, when the automobile came along, there was an entire industry of horses and carriages, and that industry was quite large. Of course, they've been around for a long, long time, hundreds of years. And then the invention of the car, the automobile, came along. Well, because it's so transformative, every infrastructure had to be reinvented. Number one, a whole bunch of new factories created a whole bunch of jobs. Every single road had to be enhanced. The old roads were problematic. New social norms. For example, for a while it was believed that cars were killing children. Cars were somehow killing children. And what was discovered was because in the olden times children would literally play in the streets. I still remember when I grew up I just played in the streets. And so children would play in the streets. And of course when cars came along many of them didn't realize it and they got themselves injured. And so new norms, pedestrian laws, pedestrian rules, sidewalks, and so on and so forth. And we built up all these different social infrastructure and new technologies with self-braking and so on and so forth. All of these technologies and of course social norms to know don't run into the streets, and so all of those different conditions had to be built up to support a whole industry. Electricity was the same way, and so on and so forth. Artificial intelligence will be the same as well.

对于所有家长，您建议他们的孩子应该学习什么才能在 AI 时代保持相关性？

And for all the parents out there, what do you suggest their kids should be studying in order to stay relevant in the age of AI?

我认为这并不重要。过去重要的一切在未来仍然重要。例如，广播、新闻、新闻主播。告知人们信息、知道该问什么问题，这些仍然和过去一样重要。你准备了很多问题，但最好的记者和最好的采访者是那些有准备的人，同时也能活在当下，倾听我的问题，捕捉到观众可能感兴趣的东西。所以，你同时思考多件事情，就像我现在做的一样。我在考虑观众，我在倾听问题，我在思考当下世界上发生的一切。我问题的答案必须与之保持一致。所以这一切仍然完全正确。为观众讲故事的能力在未来将和今天一样重要。无论是艺术，艺术将同样重要。侘寂（不完美之美）在未来可能比今天更重要。所以制作电影、设计汽车、制造芯片，所有这些仍然和过去一样重要。因此，无论你决定你的热情是什么，你唯一要做的是确保问自己：AI 如何能帮助提升我的学习、我的技艺、我的目标。

I think that it won't matter. All the things that used to matter are still things that are going to matter in the future. For example, broadcasts, news, newscasters. It will be just as important to inform people as the past, to know what questions to ask. You've prepared a lot of questions, but the best reporters and the best interviewers are the ones that are prepared, but you're also staying in the moment, listening to my question and picking up on something that maybe the audience would be interested in. And so, you're thinking about multiple things at exactly the same time, just like I'm doing right now. I'm thinking about the audience. I'm listening to the questions. I'm considering everything that's happening in the world at the moment. And the answer to my question has to be consistent with that. And so all of that is completely true still. The ability to tell a story for an audience will remain just as important in the future as it is today. Whether it's arts, the arts will be just as important. Wabi-sabi, the beauty of imperfection, will probably be even more important in the future than today. And so making movies, designing cars, and making chips will all still be as important as in the past. So whatever you decide is your passion, the only one thing that you have to do is to make sure that you ask yourself how can AI help elevate my learning, my craft, my purpose.

现在我们来谈谈中国。您最近与特朗普总统一起在北京。能带我们回顾一下您在空军一号上的行程和地面会议吗？您最大的收获是什么？

Now let's talk about China. You were in Beijing with President Trump recently. Can you take us through your trip on Air Force One and the meetings on the ground? What are some of your biggest takeaways?

首先，非常荣幸能代表美国，也非常荣幸能陪同特朗普总统。他早上给我打电话。他没想到我不去，坚持要我上飞机一起去。于是我匆忙打包。他早上离开时给我打电话，以为我在华盛顿特区可以跳上空军一号，但我在西海岸。所以他让我在阿拉斯加与他会合。于是我飞到阿拉斯加，跳上空军一号，去了中国。我和其他 16 位 CEO 一起，代表了相当多的优秀公司，从消费电子到工业、汽车，再到金融和生物技术。所以代表了广泛的行业。对话非常受欢迎。习近平主席和李克强总理非常热情，他们谈到了合作和稳定关系，并表示中国将是一个开放的市场，甚至比以前更开放，鼓励投资。我们去那里是为了代表美国，支持总统，他们举行了精彩的会议。他们非常亲切。感觉很好，盛况和所有庆祝活动都令人印象深刻。但仅此而已。基本上就是这样。我在那里待了几天。我们几天没睡觉，然后当特朗普总统回国时，我去了北京老城区享受了一些美食。

First of all, it was a great honor to represent the United States and it was a great honor for me to accompany President Trump. He called me in the morning. He didn't realize I wasn't going and he insisted I get on the plane and go. And so I packed up in a hurry. He called me in the morning as he was leaving and he thought I was in Washington DC to jump on Air Force One, but I was on the West Coast. And so he told me just meet me in Alaska. And so I flew to Alaska, jumped on Air Force One and went to China. I was there with 16 other CEOs, I think, and it represents quite a large collection of great companies from consumer electronics to industrials and automotive and all the way to financials and biotech. So it was a large collection of industry that was represented. And the conversations were really welcomed. President Xi and Premier Li Chang were extremely welcoming and they spoke about cooperation and a stable relationship and that China would be an open market and even more wide open than before, encouraged investment. And then we were there to really represent the United States, support the president, and they had wonderful meetings. They were extremely cordial. The feelings were great and the pomp and circumstance and all of the festivities were quite impressive. But that was it. That was basically it. I was there for a couple days. We didn't sleep for a couple of days and then when President Trump left to go back home, I went to Oldtown Beijing to enjoy some nice meals.

感觉怎么样？

How was that?

很棒，很棒。是的，人们非常友好。总之，这是一次非常棒的经历。

It was great. It was great. Yeah, people were very nice. Anyway, it was a really great experience.

但有报道称，尽管美国批准出口，中国并未购买任何英伟达的 H200 芯片。您还说过，英伟达已从中国撤退，因为中国在推动自己的芯片。这最终会让中国成为你们最大的对手吗？

But reports suggest that China hasn't purchased any of Nvidia's H200 chips despite US export approval. Now you have also said that Nvidia has stepped back from China as it pushes for its own chips. Could that actually eventually make China your greatest rival?

嗯，中国将成为每个人的最大对手。我的意思是，这不用说，因为他们拥有如此非凡的本地市场，完全统一。就像美国，每个州都说英语。中国，每个省都说中文。与欧洲相比，这是一个巨大的优势，欧洲每个国家都说不同的语言；或者有些国家所有人都说同一种语言，但市场不大。所以这两个国家，美国和中国，因此拥有巨大优势：人口众多，教育程度高。中国学生的科学、技术和数学水平非凡，而且他们以非常高的数量、大规模地培养这些人才。

Well, China is going to be everybody's greatest rival. I mean that goes without saying because they have such an extraordinary local market that is completely uniform. Just like the United States, every single state speaks English. China, every province speaks Chinese. And that's a substantial advantage versus Europe where every single country speaks a different language, or countries where everybody speaks the same language but the market is not very big. So these two countries, United States and China, have a substantial advantage because of that reason: large population, very well educated. The science, technology, and math of Chinese students is extraordinary, and they produce it at very high volumes, large volumes.

中国的大学，包括清华和许多其他大学，在科学和技术方面都是世界一流的。这个国家很大，拥有珍视科学和技术的统一文化。公司非常有竞争力且充满活力，从阿里巴巴到小米到腾讯，还有许多小公司。中国的创新速度及其自然资源，包括人民和文化，几乎肯定会保证中国在每个行业都具有竞争力。关于英伟达，我们并没有从中国撤退。当美国政府通过出口管制禁止我们进入中国时，留下了一个真空，中国公司填补了它。结果，华为和许多初创公司创下了纪录，并以惊人的速度增长。尽管英伟达的技术更好，但可用的技术也足够好。中国政府理所当然地鼓励本地公司成功。然而，英伟达可以为中国市场增加巨大价值，这对美国也有好处。特朗普总统希望美国公司在全球取得成功。对中国而言，英伟达的技术只竞争五层蛋糕中的一层。AI 是一个五层蛋糕。当英伟达参与中国时，它支持了其他层的扩展。从整体来看，英伟达可以为该行业提供巨大服务。当英伟达增长时，整个供应链都会增长。我们带动了整个台湾。英伟达在全球的成功对供应链和本地市场都有好处。

China's universities, including Tsinghua and many others, are world-class in science and technology. The country is large with a uniform culture that treasures science and technology. Companies are very competitive and vibrant, from Alibaba to Xiaomi to Tencent, as well as many small companies. China's pace of innovation and its natural resources, including its people and culture, will almost certainly guarantee that China competes in every industry. Regarding Nvidia, we are not stepping back from China. When the US government banned us from going to China through export controls, it left a vacuum that Chinese companies filled. As a result, Huawei and many startups had record years and are growing at an incredible pace. Even though Nvidia's technology is better, available technology is plenty good. The Chinese government understandably encourages local companies to succeed. However, Nvidia could add enormous value to the Chinese market, which is also good for the US. President Trump wants American companies to succeed worldwide. For China, Nvidia's technology competes with one layer of the five-layer cake. AI is a five-layer cake. When Nvidia participates in China, it supports the expansion of the other layers. Looking holistically, Nvidia could be of great service to that industry. When Nvidia grows, the entire supply chain grows. We lift all of Taiwan with us. Nvidia succeeding worldwide will be great for the supply chain and local markets.

您是否认为我们正在看到两个独立的 AI 生态系统的崛起，一个由美国领导，另一个由中国领导，它们能共存吗？

Would you say that we're seeing the rise of two separate AI ecosystems, one led by the US and the other by China, and can they coexist?

有可能创建两个 AI 生态系统，但这并不明智。AI 是一种非常强大、变革性且具有双重用途的技术。一方面，它行善的潜力令人难以置信，并且已经得到证明。另一方面，它也可能被用于带来伤害的方式。技术、社会和政治领域的全球领导者越多地合作，以和谐和有益的方式推进这项技术，对未来的好处就越大。我相信中国和美国应该在 AI 上合作，而不仅仅是竞争。两者可以兼得。我今天与许多竞争对手合作；我们一方面竞争，另一方面大力合作，因为我们希望行业、市场和社会得到最好的结果。合作确保和谐进步。因此，对于 AI，我们绝对应该在竞争的同时进行合作。

It is possible that two AI ecosystems are created, but it's not wise. AI is a very capable, transformative, and dual-use technology. On one hand, its potential for good is unbelievable and already demonstrated. On the other hand, it could be used in ways that bring harm. The more world leaders in technology, social, and political spheres work together to advance this technology in harmony and for good, the better it will be for the future. I believe China and the United States should cooperate in AI, not just compete. It is possible to do both. I work with many competitors today; we compete on one hand and cooperate greatly on the other because we want what's best for the industry, market, and society. Cooperation ensures harmonious advance. So for AI, we should absolutely cooperate while competing.

台湾处于全球供应链的中心。您认为台湾在 AI 竞赛中扮演什么角色，它能保持这一优势多久？

Taiwan sits at the center of the global supply chain. What role do you think Taiwan plays in the AI race, and how long can it maintain that advantage?

台湾的名字里有 AI 这两个字母，所以 AI 是台湾的核心。这个岛上的公司令人难以置信，处于 AI 可能性和增长的中心。近年来，几件事同时发生。供应链必须多样化，因为全球供应链非常广泛和庞大，而且 AI 计算机现在已成为世界的工厂和基础设施。供应链需要更具弹性和多样化。一方面，供应链正在全球范围内多样化，晶圆厂在世界各地建设。另一方面，它在台湾以惊人的速度增长，尽管能源和土地压力很大。台湾在制造方面非常出色，机器人技术将彻底改变并转变台湾持续增长的能力。没有哪个地区比台湾更能为 AI 的持续增长做好准备。我预计台湾将在未来许多年以加速的速度增长。英伟达现在是一家价值数千亿美元的公司，每年增长近 100%。我们在台湾的合作伙伴关系极大地帮助了我们的增长。

Taiwan has the letters AI in it, so AI is at the center of Taiwan. The companies on this island are incredible and at the epicenter of AI's possibility and growth. In recent years, several things are happening simultaneously. Supply chains must diversify because the world supply chain is so broad and large, and because AI computers are now factories and infrastructure for the world. The supply chain needs to be more resilient and diversified. On one hand, supply chains are diversifying globally with fabs being built worldwide. On the other hand, it's growing incredibly here in Taiwan, though energy and land pressures are high. Taiwan is extraordinary at manufacturing, and robotics will revolutionize and transform Taiwan's ability to continue growing. No region is better prepared for AI's continued growth than Taiwan. I expect Taiwan to grow at an accelerated pace for many years. Nvidia is now a multi-hundred-billion-dollar company, growing nearly 100% per year. The partnerships we have here in Taiwan have helped us grow incredibly.

但最重要的是对人的投资。我们在这里有一个非常大的园区，很快还会有一个更大的园区。能透露一下投资金额吗？

And then but the most important thing is the investment in people. We have a very large site here and we're going to have a much much larger site here soon. Can you give us a sneak preview on the investment amount?

嗯，这不仅仅是钱的问题。当然，Nvidia 目前在 AI 基础设施上投入了数千亿美元，大部分支出都在台湾。所以我们通过最好的投资形式——业务——向台湾投资了数千亿美元。未来几年，从 Grace Blackwell 到 Vera Rubin，我们有 1 万亿美元的销售额。1 万亿美元的销售额意味着数千亿美元的支出和设备收入将流入台湾。这是一个非凡的数字，是台湾历史上最高的。所以这是我们最好的投资形式。我们也投资这里的公司，通过预付款、资本投资和采购承诺来支持它们。但我最喜欢的投资形式始终是人：在这里招聘大量工程师，拥有大量优秀的员工。

Well, you know, it's not just about the money. Of course, Nvidia spends at this point hundreds of billions of dollars in AI infrastructure and most of our spend is in Taiwan. So we've invested through the best form of investment, which is business, hundreds of billions of dollars into Taiwan. If you look at our next several years, between Grace Blackwell and Vera Rubin, we have $1 trillion of sales. One trillion dollars of sales is hundreds of billions of dollars of spending equipped revenues that will come into Taiwan. It's just an extraordinary number and the highest ever in history for Taiwan. So that's our best form of investment. We also invest in companies here. We support them with prepayments, investment in their capital, and commitments in our purchase. And then my favorite form of investment is still ultimately people: hiring a lot of engineers here and having a lot of great employees here in Taiwan.

在台湾所有商业领袖中，我知道你和台积电创始人张忠谋关系非常密切。能描述一下你们的友谊以及你从他身上学到了什么吗？

And also among all the business leaders in Taiwan, I know you're very close to Morris Chang, TSMC founder. Can you describe your friendship and what have you learned from him?

每次和他在一起我都能学到东西。昨晚我还和他在一起。Morris 和 Sophie 邀请了我的父母、Lori 和我，Madison 也和我们一起。我们一起吃了晚餐，度过了美好的时光。当然，Morris 和我有很多共同点，因为我的成长得到了 Morris 的支持。我五岁离开台湾后第一次回来就是去看 Morris，从那以后我经常回来。没有台积电和 Morris，Nvidia 就不会有今天。是他们的支持、友谊以及在我们很小的时候承担的风险，让我们共同成长、共同创新，当然还有共同创造了今天我们所知的 AI 行业。我们所有的旅程和历史都紧密交织在一起。在很多方面，我是在 Morris 和台积电的支持下成长的。我们对行业的形成和持续成功有着共同的兴趣。当然，我们也有很多精彩的人生故事可以分享。他是一位非常热爱阅读的人，听他总结读过的书总是很有趣。我一直很珍惜和他在一起的时光，他状态很好。我们总是一起喝一杯不错的威士忌。

I learn from him every time I'm with him. I was with him last night. Morris and Sophie had my parents Lori and I and Madison was with us as well. We were over for dinner. We had a wonderful time together. Of course Morris and I have a lot in common because I grew up with the support of Morris. When I came to Taiwan for the first time after I left when I was five years old, I came back for the first time to see Morris and I've been coming back a lot since then. Without TSMC and Morris, Nvidia wouldn't be here today. It was the support, the friendship, and the risk they took back in the old days when we were quite small. All of our growth together, innovation together, and of course the creation of the AI industry that we know today together. All of our journey and history are highly intertwined. In a lot of ways, I grew up with the support of Morris and TSMC. We have a lot of interest in how the industry is forming and ensuring its continued success. And of course, we have a lot of wonderful life stories to share with each other. He's an incredible avid reader, so it's always fun to hear about his summaries of the books he's read. I always treasure my time with him, and he's doing great. We always have a nice glass of whiskey together.

真好。现在我们来聊聊有趣的部分。谈谈你自己。你在台湾出生，在泰国生活过，然后移居美国。这些经历如何塑造了今天的你和你的领导方式？

That's nice. Now let's move on to the fun part. Let's talk about you. Born in Taiwan, lived in Thailand before moving to the US. How have those experiences shape who you are today and the way you lead?

我想我们都是父母的产物。我父亲非常技术化、非常精确，工作完美，字迹完美，做每件事都完美。他的工艺和精确程度，以及他做事的方式，让我受益匪浅。另一方面，我母亲对细节的执着，一种深深的执着……她的性格是不放过任何事。在很多方面，我觉得我继承了她的那部分行为。所以我可以长时间专注于一件事，比如 33 年，每天我都同样痴迷、同样强烈地想把事情做好。我认为我受益于在充满台湾特色的环境中长大。他们非常像典型的台湾父母。我还认为他们牺牲了很多：离开台湾，离开家人，几乎一无所有地去了泰国，然后空手去了美国。当他们去美国时，我们基本上孤身一人。没有朋友，没有家人陪伴。因为他们非常节俭，我们拥有的很少，从台湾到美国生活非常艰难，因为生活成本高得多。我认为我们简朴的生活，看到父母挣扎、在陌生的世界找到立足之地，以及他们为了让我们在美国成长、享受美国梦、获得成就今天 Nvidia 和我的机会而承担的风险——所有这些牺牲都塑造了你的性格。我感谢他们所有的牺牲和努力，让我能走到今天。我认为那段旅程是非常重要的部分。

I guess we're all the products of our parents. My father is very technical, very precise, does work perfectly, perfect handwriting, does everything perfectly. His level of craft and precision and the way he does everything in his life is something I had the benefit of learning from. On the other hand, my mom's obsession for details, a deep obsession for... she has a personality that can't let anything go. In a lot of ways, I think I've picked up that part of her behavior. So I can focus on something for a very long time, like for 33 years, and every day I'm equally obsessed and equally intense about doing a good job. I think I had the benefit of growing up with a lot of those Taiwanese characteristics. They're very much like a Taiwanese parent. I also think that they sacrificed a lot, leaving Taiwan, leaving their families behind, going to Thailand with very little, and going to the United States with nothing. When they went to the United States, we were basically alone. There were no friends, no family to be there with us. Because they were so modest and we had so little, living in the United States going from Taiwan is very challenging because the cost of living is so much higher. I think our humble life and seeing my parents struggle and find a place in a strange world, and the risks they took so that we could grow up in America and enjoy the American dream and have the opportunities that led to Nvidia today and led to me today—all of those sacrifices instill a character in you. I'm grateful for all the sacrifices and hard work they made so that I could be here. I think that journey was really an important part.

在你的公司里，你以严厉的老板著称，而且你曾说过你宁愿把人折磨成优秀，也不愿解雇他们。你具体是怎么做的？

In your company, you're known to be a tough boss, and you've said that you'd rather torture people to greatness than to fire them. How exactly do you do that?

嗯，这不是身体上的折磨。这是像台湾父母折磨人那样的方式。台湾父母：没有什么是足够好的。你一天都离不开批评。这就是台湾方式。我也有点类似。你拿东西给我看，我总会给些批评。在很多方面，这就是我的折磨方式。我会总是立即给你反馈，从不保留。一旦我给了反馈，就像台湾父母一样，反馈过后，你又重新爱那个人了。所以我总是对每个人的工作持批评态度，这样我才能帮助他们变得更好。我希望他们更好。我知道他们可以更好。这就是动机所在。也许很多都来自我的台湾父母。

Well, it's not physical torture. It's torture the same way that Taiwanese parents torture people. A Taiwanese parent: nothing is ever good enough. You can't go a day without some criticism. And that's the Taiwanese way. I'm kind of the same way. You can't show me something without me giving you some criticism. In a lot of ways, that's my form of torture. I will give you my feedback always, immediately. I'll never save it away. Once I give you my feedback, just like a Taiwanese parent, once the feedback is given, you're back to loving the person again. So I'm always critical of everybody's work so that I can help them be better. I want them to be better. I know they could be better. And that's where it's coming from. Maybe a lot of that is my Taiwanese parent.

那你的员工对此作何反应？

And how do your employees respond to that?

嗯，你知道，英伟达的员工留存率是全球最高的。我们有员工跟我一起工作了 33 年。人们不会轻易从英伟达离职。我的工作是创造一个环境，让所有这些杰出的计算机科学家、工程师和供应链专家能来到英伟达，完成他们毕生的事业。这就是我的工作：创造那样的条件，让他们能够实现梦想，就像他们帮助我实现梦想一样。我认为这最终是领导力的目的：为他人创造条件去实现他们的梦想，成为你梦想的一部分，并成为更宏大事业的一部分。把他们的工作、职业、手艺变成他们毕生的事业。在英伟达，你可以做到这一点。

Well, you know, Nvidia's retention is the best in the world. We have employees that have been with me for 33 years. People don't quit easily from Nvidia. My job is to create an environment where all these amazing computer scientists, engineers, and supply chain experts can come to Nvidia to do their life's work. That's my job: to create that condition so they can realize their dreams, just as they've helped me realize mine. I think that's ultimately the purpose of leadership: to create the conditions for other people to realize their dreams, to be part of yours, and to be part of something bigger. To turn their job, their profession, their craft into their life's work. At NVIDIA, you can do that.

我们知道你每周工作七天。是什么每天驱动着你，你究竟从哪里获得那么多精力？我一直都精疲力尽。

We know that you work seven days a week. What drives you day to day and where exactly do you get all that energy? I'm exhausted all the time.

是什么驱动着我？有几件事。一方面，最基本的是我不想失败，我不想英伟达失败，因为有太多人指望着我：员工、合作伙伴、我们的生态系统合作伙伴，以及我在台湾的所有朋友。我希望每个人都成功。领导者肩负着一种重担，希望每个人都蓬勃发展、实现梦想，并与我们一起成功。那个重担让我每天起床。与此同时，我内心也有一个充满希望、乐观、雄心勃勃的部分，想要建造一些能产生影响、做出贡献的东西。还有一个梦想家的部分，想要创造那个未来，并希望在有生之年看到它。所以我急于让它成真。这既是成功的重担，也是希望他人同行，还有对失败的恐惧——因为我的成长经历，也因为英伟达经历过非常艰难的时期。建立英伟达并不容易。走到今天也不容易。所有的挣扎永远无法离开我的身体。一旦你像英伟达和我一样深刻地挣扎过，它就会成为你性格的一部分，永不离开。所以同时，所有这些都在我的身体和大脑中发生。你不由自主地总是想着工作。

What drives me? It's several things. On one hand, it's as basic as I don't want to fail, and I don't want Nvidia to fail, because too many people are counting on me: employees, partners, our ecosystem partners, all my friends here in Taiwan. I want everybody to succeed. There's a burden on leaders who want everybody to flourish, realize their dreams, and succeed with us. That burden gets me out of bed every day. At the same time, there's a hopeful, optimistic, ambitious part of me that wants to build something that makes an impact, makes a contribution. There's a dreamer part that wants to create that future and hopes to see it in my lifetime. So I'm in a hurry to make it come true. It's simultaneously the burden of success and wanting other people to come along, the fear of failure because of how I was raised, because Nvidia has gone through very difficult times. It was not easy to build Nvidia. It was not easy to be here today. All the struggles can never leave my body. Once you've struggled as deeply as Nvidia has and as I have, it becomes part of your character and never leaves you. So simultaneously, all this is happening in my body and brain. You can't help but always think about work.

有人说你还能再掌管英伟达 30 年。你怎么看？你认为什么样的领导者应该接替你？

Some people have said that you still have another 30 years running Nvidia. What do you think about that? And what kind of leader do you think should succeed you?

我愿意尽可能长久地工作。我希望死在岗位上。那将是梦想成真。我想象不出更有意义的人生。我身边有我的家人、我的孩子。他们两个都在英伟达工作，我有幸能经常见到他们。我为他们感到骄傲，公司也以他们为荣，他们热爱公司。Lori 和我共度了一生。她一路参与了英伟达的每一步。除了 Lori，我不认为有谁参加过每一场会议、每一次演讲。英伟达的每一个时刻，她都在场。我拥有非常有意义的工作，一家拥有不可思议的人才和几乎无所不能的员工的公司的，并且我被父母和家人的爱所包围，他们和我一起走在这段旅程上。我想象不出做其他任何更有意义的事情。关于下一代，领导力就是为他人赋能创造条件。英伟达很庞大，但我们是一家小公司。我们是世界上最小的大公司，这之所以可能，是因为英伟达有那么多领导者被授权去做他们的工作。我不断透明地解释我们的战略。我不断在人们面前推理复杂的情况，这样他们可以帮助我双重检查我的推理模式和逻辑。同时，我也让他们看到我如何思考复杂、模糊和不确定的情况。赋能他人、让他们放手去做、尽早对齐我们的战略和护栏、以及在人们面前推理——这些组合帮助每个人都变得更成功、更有能力。下一代，英伟达的下一任领导者已经在公司工作了，我的工作是培养数百个出色的选择。你永远不知道谁是正确的下一个人，因为我们不知道英伟达在 30 年、20 年或 10 年后会是什么样子。我们不知道人工智能正在帮助创造的未来中的情况。认为我能知道 10 年或 20 年后的完美领导者，这是自以为是甚至可以说是傲慢的。我们必须不断进化，直到我们确定。但有一件事我可以告诉你：英伟达的领导者必须关心员工、生态系统和合作伙伴，胜过关心自己。伟大的领导者是无私的，始终服务于公司的文化、使命和员工。很有可能，这位领导者将处于一个智能成为商品的时代，编写代码、解决问题甚至科学发现的能力都完全自动化了。我们这一代人如此珍视的东西——知识、技术技能、解决问题的能力、科学、技术、数学——所有这些都很可能成为商品。

I would like to work as long as I can. I hope to die on the job. That would be a dream come true. I can't imagine a more meaningful life. I'm surrounded by my family, my kids. Both of them work at Nvidia, and I have the benefit of seeing them all the time. I'm proud of them, the company's proud of them, and they love the company. Lori has been with me our whole life. She's been part of Nvidia every step of the way. Aside from Lori, I don't think anyone has been to every conference, every speech. Every moment of NVIDIA, she was there. I have the benefit of really meaningful work, a company with incredible people and employees that can achieve almost anything, and I'm surrounded by the love of my parents and my family who are part of this journey with me. I can't imagine doing anything else more meaningful. With respect to the next generation, leadership is about creating the conditions for other people to be empowered. Nvidia is giant yet we're a small company. We're the world's smallest large company, and that's only possible because so many leaders at NVIDIA are empowered to do the work. I constantly explain our strategy transparently. I constantly reason about complicated situations in front of people so they can help me double-check my reasoning patterns and logic. I also expose them to how I think through complicated, ambiguous, uncertain circumstances. The combination of empowering people, letting them run, aligning early on our strategies and guardrails, and reasoning in front of people helps everybody become more successful and empowered. The next generation, the next leader of Nvidia is already working there, and it's my job to cultivate hundreds of amazing choices. You never know who the right next person is, because we don't know what Nvidia will be like in 30, 20, or 10 years. We don't know the circumstances in that future that AI is helping create. It would be presumptuous and arguably arrogant to think I would know the perfect leader in 10 or 20 years. We'll have to evolve until we know for certain. But one thing I will tell you: the leader for Nvidia would have to care about the employees, the ecosystem, and the partners more than they care about themselves. A great leader is selfless and always in service of the culture, mission, and people of the company. It is very likely that this leader will be in an era where intelligence is a commodity, where the ability to write code, solve problems, and even scientific discovery is completely automated. The things we value so much in my generation—knowledge, technical skills, problem solving, sciences, technologies, math—all of that is likely going to be a commodity.

因此，剩下的就是雄心、品格、想象力、同理心、慷慨、善良，以及定义一个人超越智力的软技能。我认为这些东西会变得非常重要。而且我要说，任何领导者最大的资产就是身边每个人都希望他们成功。有些领导者，你只希望他们更成功，因为他们对别人友善和慷慨；而有些人成功了，你却希望看到他们失败。所以我认为未来的领导者将是那些体现无形品质、让其他人希望他们成功并愿意被领导的人。

And so therefore what remains is ambition and character, imagination, empathy, generosity, kindness, and the soft skills that define a person beyond their intelligence. I think those things will become quite important. And I would say the greatest asset of any leader is the desire of everyone around them to see them succeed. There are leaders that you just wish to be more successful because they are kind and generous to other people, and there are people who are successful and you hope to see them fail. So I think future leaders will be the ones who embody the intangibles that lead others to want them to succeed and to be led.

希望你不介意我回到关于裁员的问题。你怎么看因为 AI 而导致裁员是不可避免的？

I hope you don't mind me going back to the question about job cuts. How would you say that job cuts are inevitable because of AI?

很可能五年后的工作岗位会比今天更多，多很多。有些工作会不同，有些会消失，许多新工作会出现。我几乎可以肯定这么说。原因是：全球 GDP 在过去 150 年里一直以每年约 2% 的速度增长，经历了工业革命、电力、信息技术、交通、蒸汽、制造设备、个人电脑、互联网、手机和人工智能。它一直稳定在每年 2%。所有这些技术当时都是变革性的。我们今天的生活与 150 年前相比完全不同，但增长率仍是每年 2%。过去 150 年创造的工作岗位数量惊人，未来 150 年创造的数量将更加惊人。当然，有些工作会非常不同。AI 有机会以前所未有的方式弥合技术鸿沟。例如，作为新闻记者，你今天使用计算机的能力比历史上任何时候都强，因为你可以让计算机做任何事。如果你想要自己的网站或广播，只需让 AI 帮你创建。你现在和我一样是程序员了。AI 首次弥合了技术鸿沟。我们有机会让每个人参与这场新技术革命。这非常重要。其次，AI 可能会改变服务业、制造业，以及非常重要的消费和娱乐业的形态。人们更可能因为更繁荣而消费更多。因为消费更多，休闲产业和内容创作将受益，因为我们会有更多时间享受你创作的内容。希望我们有机会更多地旅行，了解不同文化，弥合文化鸿沟。我设想了一个乐观的未来，事实也支持我的想象。许多 CEO 将 AI 与失业联系起来，这种说法太懒惰了。AI 刚刚到来，怎么可能已经导致失业？AI 在六个月前才变得有用且高效，怎么可能两年前就有人因为 AI 而裁员？这毫无道理。这只是他们让自己听起来聪明的方式。我真的很讨厌这样。我认为我们在吓唬人，这是不负责任的。我们应该平衡地讲述这项技术的潜力，以及安全推进它、设置护栏和必要的社会、政治、产业政策的重要性。另一方面，讲述一个乐观的故事，让人们愿意参与其中。我们希望这一代年轻人参与进来。这里有一个简单的测试给所有观众：你建议你的孩子做什么？你是建议他们拥抱 AI 还是拒绝它并落后？你是建议他们用 AI 提升学习和职业，还是告诉他们不要用，让别人用？毫无疑问，每个家长都会说，你必须学习这项技术，明智地使用它，用它提升自己。如果他们这样建议自己的孩子，有什么理由不这样建议别人呢？我看到的未来是乐观的，有更多的智能、劳动力和商品，创造更多消费机会。如果你是一个时尚鉴赏家，你会有更多机会去消费。

It is very likely there will be more jobs in 5 years than there are today. Many more jobs. Some jobs will be different, some will be gone, and many new jobs will emerge. I can say that with almost certainty. The reason is this: the world's GDP has been growing at about 2% per year for 150 years, through the industrial revolution, electricity, information technology, transportation, steam, manufacturing equipment, personal computers, internet, cell phones, and artificial intelligence. It's been on a solid 2% per year. All those technologies were transformative. How we live today versus 150 years ago is completely different, yet 2% per year. The number of jobs created in the last 150 years is incredible, and the number in the next 150 years will be utterly incredible. Of course, some jobs will be very different. AI has the opportunity to close the technology divide like no technology ever has. For example, you are a better user of computers today as a news reporter than at any time in history because you can program the computer to do whatever. If you want your own website or broadcast, you can just ask AI to help you create it. You're now a programmer just like I am. For the first time, AI has closed the technology divide. We have the opportunity to bring everybody along in this new technology revolution. That's a very big deal. Second, AI will likely change the shape of the services industry, manufacturing industry, and very importantly, the consumption and entertainment industries. It is more likely that people will consume more because we're more prosperous. Because we consume more, the leisure industry and content creation will enjoy more, as we'll have more time to enjoy the content you create. Hopefully we'll have the opportunity to travel more, learning about different cultures, and close the culture divides. There's an optimistic future that I imagine, and facts would support my imagination. The narrative that connects AI to job loss for many CEOs is just too lazy. AI has just arrived. How is it possible they're already losing jobs? How is it possible that AI became productive and useful only six months ago, and they were laying people off two years ago because of AI? It doesn't make any sense. It was just a way for them to sound smart. I really hate that. I think we're scaring people, and that's irresponsible. We should tell a balanced story about the potential of this technology, the importance of advancing it safely with guardrails and necessary social, political, and industrial policies. On the other hand, tell an optimistic story so that people want to be part of it. We want the young people of this generation to engage it. Here's my simple test for all the audience: What are you advising your children to do? Are you advising them to engage AI or reject it and be left behind? Are you advising them to use AI to elevate their learning and profession, or telling them not to use it and let others use it? I have no question that every single parent is saying you have to learn about this technology, use it wisely, but use it to elevate yourself. If that is what they're advising their children, for what reason are they not advising it for other people? I see a future that is optimistic, with more abundance of intelligence, labor, and goods, creating opportunities for us to consume more. If you were a connoisseur of fashion, you're going to have a lot more opportunity to consume that.

非常感谢你，Jensen。我真的很享受这次对话。

Thank you so much, Jensen. I really enjoy your conversation.

非常感谢你，Victoria。

Thank you very much, Victoria.

谢谢。

Thank you.