设计、惊奇与想象：与艾维·罗斯的对话

你好你好你好你好，哇，能在这里见到这么多了不起的面孔真是太棒了，今晚看到你们所有人 smiling 的面孔真是太好了，所以欢迎大家。嗯，我是 Helen Mar and ment，我有幸担任加州艺术学院设计项目的院长。我们真的很高兴能有这么多观众，你知道，从疫情中恢复过来，能在同一个空间里看到这么多人是件很棒的事。嗯，在我开始之前，我想宣读我们的土地致谢。嗯，加州艺术学院的校园位于 wiin 和 yamu，也就是奥克兰和旧金山，分别位于 Cheno 和 Ru Shalon 人民的未割让领土上，他们自古以来就一直生活在这片土地上。我鼓励你们利用这短暂的时间来纪念那些我们生活、教学和学习所依赖的土地上的原住民，认识到那些受殖民化、全球危机、种族暴力和系统性不公正影响最严重的生活，并让自己集中注意力，致力于为一个更公正、更公平的社会而努力。

Hello hello hello hello wow how amazing to have this incredible crowd here it's absolutely wonderful to see all of you smiling faces here tonight so welcome everyone um I'm Helen Mar and ment and I have the privilege of being the dean of the design program here at California College of the Arts we're thrilled really to have such a great audience you know coming back from the pandemic it's amazing to have this many people in the same space uh before I start I want to read Our Land acknowledgement um California College of the Arts campuses are located in wiin and yamu also known as Oakland and San Francisco respectively on the unid territories of the Cheno and Ru Shalon peoples who have lived continuously Upon This Land since time immemorial I encourage you to use this brief moment to honor the indigenous people upon whose Land We live teach and learn to recognize the lives most severely impacted by colonization Global crisis racial violence and systematic Injustice and to Center yourself and commit to working towards a more just and Equitable Society

对于那些刚来 CCA 的人，我想这里有很多新面孔，所以欢迎欢迎。嗯，对于那些新来的人，我想稍微谈谈设计部门，以及我们在这里做什么。CCA 的设计部门设有六个本科项目和三个研究生项目，涵盖了当代设计实践的广度，从设计策略到深度工艺。我们的项目是那些具有激进好奇心的人的庇护所，CCA 是一个通过严谨和工艺放大好奇心和想象力的地方。今晚我们会听到很多关于好奇心和想象力的内容。我们在 CCA 的共同目标是装备制造者、思考者和行动者，使他们具备设想替代未来的能力和激发变革的创造力，与我们在美术、建筑和人文学科的同事合作，我们努力并经常成功地让我们的设计变得重要。也许这里有点新闻，但 CCA 现在是北加州唯一的独立艺术与设计学院，对吧？所以如果你真的想有机会与志同道合的人一起工作并思考未来，这就是你要来的地方。

For those of you that new to CCA and I think there's a lot of new faces here so welcome welcome um I the so for those of you who are new I want to talk a little bit about the design division right and what we do here so the design division at CCA hosts six undergraduate programs and three graduate programs that span the bread of contemporary design practice from design strategy through deep craft our programs are a sanctuary for those with radical curiosity and cc is a place where Wonder and Imagination are Amplified through rigor and cl craft and we're going to hear a lot about Wonder and Imagination tonight our Collective purpose at CCA is to equip makers thinkers and doers with a wherewithal to Envision alternate Futures and the creative capacity to inspire change in partnership with our colleagues in Fine Arts architecture and the humanities we strive and often succeed to make our in design that matters maybe a little bit of news here but CCA is now the only independent College of Art and Design in Northern California right so this is the place that you come if you really want to have an opportunity to work with like-minded people and think about the future

我们在这里举办各种活动，公共活动、讲座、对话、阅读和研讨会，我邀请你们所有人回来再次加入我们，让我们成为你们文化行程中的常规站点。我想特别感谢 Cole Ryder，他躲在后面，嗨 Cole。Cole 设计了我们的图形来宣布今晚的活动，而且实际上还亲自出去丝网印刷了你们在我身后看到的这些惊人的海报。所以设计和工艺在 CCA 这里紧密相连，非常感谢你的工作。还有一组快速的感谢，我想感谢我们的团队，Nina vuik、Hannah Gibson、Chris Lasher 和 Cecilia Newman，感谢你们为今晚的活动所做的所有工作。我们勇敢的摄影师 Nicholas Bruno 穿着绿色 T 恤在这里，记录你们所有人。嗯，我们现在的 MFA 设计学生 Elizabeth C 在这里，她实际上会做笔记，并为今晚的活动写一篇评论，发表在 review rewind with spond 上，那是我们的学生 H 期刊，嗯，这是一本非常棒的出版物。我还想提醒你们，Ivy 的书在外面可以买到，如果你们没有带自己的副本，她会在晚上结束时有时间给你们签名，所以嗯，你们应该买一本，它真的很棒。

We host all kinds of events here public events lectures conversations readings and workshops and I invite all of you to come back and join us again and make us a regular stop on your cultural itinerary I want to give a shout out to Cole Ryder who's here hiding at the back over there hi Cole Cole uh designed our Graphics uh to announce tonight's event and also actually went out and personally screen printed all of these amazing posters that you see behind me so design and craft live really close together here at CCA thank you so much for your work and a really quick uh other set of thanks I want to thank our team here Nina vuik Hannah Gibson Chris Lasher and Cecilia Newman for all your work to help uh put this event together tonight our Intrepid photographer Nicholas Bruno is here in the green t-shirt uh to document you all um and our current MFA design student Elizabeth C who's here is actually going to be taking notes and writing a review of the event tonight for review rewind with spond which is our student H Journal uh it's a really wonderful publication I also want to remind you that Ivy's book is available to purchase outside here if you haven't brought your copy along and she'll have time to sign your book at the end of the evening so uh you should buy one it's really great

好的，快速介绍一下 Ivy，虽然我想她可能已经被你们所有人认识了，这也是你们今晚来这里的原因。嗯，Ivy 是 Google 消费设备的首席设计官，也是《你的大脑与艺术》的合著者。自 2017 年以来，她带领 Google 的一个跨学科团队推出了一系列消费硬件产品，从智能手机到智能音箱，获得了超过 240 项全球设计奖。那是很多设计奖，我想那可能真的是全部了，你知道，我可以想象。我认为她建立的产品组合确实为科技产品设定了一种设计美学，那种触感、大胆、情感化，而且毫无疑问是 Google 的。我的意思是，当你看到 Google 产品时，你肯定能认出来。

Okay a quick introduction to iy though I think she's probably probably known by all of you and that's why you're here tonight um Ivy is the chief design officer for Consumer devices at Google and co-author of your brain on Art since 2017 she's LED an interdisciplinary team at Google through the launch of a family of consumer Hardware products ranging from smartphones to Smart speakers earning over 240 Global Design Awards that's a lot of Design Awards I think that might be them all actually you know I would imagine um I think the product portfolio that she's established really sets a design aesthetic for technology products that is T that is tactile bold emotional and undeniably Google I mean you definitely know a Google product when you see it

在加入 Google 之前，Ivy 还在许多其他公司担任过领导职务，比如 Calvin Klein watch、Coach、Mattel、BOS 和 L，甚至 Gap，所以真的是非常广泛的公司。她的《你的大脑与艺术》与 Susan maximan 合著，已经是《纽约时报》的畅销书，所以你知道，现在就去买一本吧。嗯，她还为许多其他书籍和文章做出了贡献，包括《变革冠军现场指南》和《领导力发展与组织变革的最佳实践》。她曾被收录在《将改变我们看待世界方式的 200 位女性》中，对吧，那相当令人印象深刻，并在《财富》杂志最具影响力女性峰会上发表演讲。我的意思是，荣誉清单相当长，所以我不打算一一列举，但我想说的最后一件事，我认为对今晚在 CCA 的活动非常重要，那就是 Ivy 也是一位著名的艺术家，嗯，她创新的金属珠宝作品被 12 家国际博物馆永久收藏。她是国家艺术基金会资助、设计界女性奖和钻石国际奖的获得者，都是因为她个人的珠宝作品。她相信艺术与科学的结合可以创造奇迹，并将想法和伟大品牌带入生活，我们今晚将深入探讨这一点。所以非常感谢你们的加入，我将邀请 Ivy 上台。

Before Ivy joined Google she's also had many other leadership roles in companies such as Calvin Klein watch coach Mattel BOS and L and even Gap so like a really wide range of companies your brain on Art H co-authored with Susan maximan is already a New York Times best seller so you know get your copy now uh she's contributed to many other uh not many other books and articles including the change Champions Field Guide and best practices in leadership development and organizational change she was featured in 200 women who will change the way we see the world right that's pretty impressive and has spoken at Fortune magazines most powerful Women's Summit I mean the list of accolades is pretty lengthy so I'm not going to go down the rest of the list but the last thing I want to say and I think it's really important for tonight's event here at CCA is that I is also a renowned artist uh whose Innovative metal work in jewelry is in the permanent collection of 12 International museums she's the recipient of a natural National Endowment for the Arts Grant a woman in design award and the Diamond International reward all for her personal work in jewelry she believes in the combination of Art and Science to make magic happen and bring ideas and great Brands to life and we're going to be talking a lot about that tonight so thank you so much for joining us and I'm going to invite Ivy up to the mic

谢谢你，Helen。你知道，我上次来这栋楼是 1998 年左右，我想它刚建好，我的朋友 Steven Holt 带我来的。我当时是 Mattel 女孩玩具的设计主管，实际上我有一段时间是芭比的妈妈，我简直不敢相信。所以我在这里赞助了一个与学生的项目，所以现在我又在这里庆祝新楼的开放，真的很合适。嗯，变老的好处是回忆，我真的很喜欢，还有随之而来的智慧。所以我知道 Helen 和我将更多地谈论这本书，但我只想给你们大约 15 分钟的视觉内容，关于我现在和我极其有才华的团队所做的事情，以及一些可能为我们的对话奠定基础的东西。

Thank you Helen you know the last time I was in this building um was around 1998 I think it had just been done and my friend Steven Holt brought me here I was head of design for girls toys at Mattel I was actually Barbie's mother for a while I can't believe and so I was sponsoring a project here with the students so it's really appropriate that here I am again celebrating a new building um opening it's the great thing about um getting older is the memories and I really love that and the wisdom that comes with it so I know Helen and I are going to get into a conversation more about the book but I just wanted to give you about 15 minutes worth of a little bit of visuals of what I do now with my incredibly talented team and some things that um might set us up for the conversation

所以这是 Google 的设计中心。嗯，我不幸又幸运地被我的老板指派，他们正在翻新一栋楼，我说哦，不不不，不能是典型的 Google 内部装修。这个工作，建筑空间会改变你的思维方式，它必须支持我们的美学，他说好吧，去做吧。所以我说我们需要一个设计图书馆，他们说，你什么意思，我们是把世界信息数字化的公司。我说不，设计师需要触摸和感受，所以整个……

So this is the design center at Google um I was given unfortunately fortunately my boss they were gutting a building and I said oh oh no no no it can't be your typical Google interior this work the building space changes the way you think it has to support our aesthetic which he said okay go for it so the first thing I said is we need a design library and they said what do you mean we're the company that digitized the world's information I said no designers need to touch and hold and so the whole

建筑本身就是一种对立面的张力，介于模拟与数字、阳刚与阴柔之间。所以对于我和我的设计师团队来说，这是一个绝佳的工作场所。对于那些还没见过、或者不太熟悉谷歌消费硬件产品的人来说，我们做这行大概有八年了。这是我们最近发布的手机——Pixel 9。我有一个庞大的色彩、材质与表面处理团队。我们喜欢创造基于情绪或情感的色彩。我们做手机、手表、耳机，总是会设计出相互协调的调色板，灵感来自我们在世界上看到的色彩，也来自我们对当下社会情感需求的洞察。

Building is really a tension of opposites between analog and digital, masculine and feminine. So it's a great place for the designers and I work for. For those of you that haven't seen, and many people are not familiar with the Google consumer hardware products, we've been at it for about, I think, eight years. But this is our phone, our Pixel 9, that we recently launched. I have an extensive color, material, and finish team. We love to create colors that are based on moods or emotions. We do phones, watches, earbuds, and always create color palettes that work together, inspired by colors we see out in the world, as well as insight into what we think society needs emotionally at the moment.

这只是给大家一个概览。我们最新的耳机比以往任何时候都小，我们喜欢运用科技与自然，这又是对立面的张力。但我们数字化了 3000 年、4500 万个数据点，来打造一款能适配 90% 人口的耳机。耳机盒的设计灵感其实来自握着一块河石或鹅卵石。我们的 Pixel，这是我们的第三代手表。这里有个有趣的故事。这个设计灵感来自疫情期间，我和设计师们进行视频通话，大家都非常焦虑，觉得眼前发生的事情毫无先例。我们还能再一起工作吗？因为我们总是研究自然，我们开始讨论自然中的哪种元素，我认为自然是最好的设计师。所以每当我卡住时，我总是从自然中寻找线索。于是我说，自然中哪种元素最具韧性？我们想到了水，因为它是唯一会改变状态的元素，从固态到液态再变回来。于是设计师们开始尝试各种方法，去了解关于水的一切，他们把水滴落在钢板上，观察水滴在形态破裂前的形状。最终这成了我们手表的显示界面，正是曲率破裂前的那一刻。

This just gives you an overview snapshot. Our latest earbuds are smaller than ever before, and we love to use technology and nature, again tension of opposites. But we digitized 3,000 years, 45 million points of data to create an earbud that would fit 90% of the population. The earbud case was actually inspired by holding a riverstone or a pebble. Our Pixel, this is our third watch. This is an interesting story. This was inspired by during COVID, the designers and I were on video calls and everyone was freaking out, like there's no precedent for what's going to happen here. Are we ever going to be able to work together again? And because we always study nature, we started talking about what element in nature, and I think nature is the best designer. So whenever I'm stuck, I always look for cues from nature. So I said, well, what element in nature is the most resilient? And we came up with water, because it's the only one that changes state. It goes from solid to liquid and back again. So the designers started playing with everything to learn everything about water, and they were dropping on a steel plate drops of water and noticing the shape before the form breaks. And that ended up becoming our watch display, was exactly the moment before the curvature breaks.

我们有一个很棒的团队，在纺织品、各种材料、金属方面进行创新，我们总是努力为每款产品做最合适的事，同时打造一个能真正看到父系或母系 DNA 的产品家族。我为此感到非常自豪。我相信你们都知道 Nest 恒温器。我们刚刚完成了十年来的首次重新设计，尝试了许多许多不同的演变和形态，最终我们想出了这个，它看起来很像一滴水，非常干净纯粹。你仍然可以像以前那样旋转它，我们保留了 Nest 恒温器令人喜爱的地方。最棒的是，我送了一个给它的创造者托尼·法德尔，他说：“天哪，你们超越了我最伟大的梦想。”所以我们知道我们做对了。但它的美妙之处还在于，你可以让它看起来像一座时钟。我没有照片，但当你走过时，它会感应到你在那里，然后显示温度。所以它在你家里看起来就像一座漂亮的现代时钟，但当你需要信息时，它就会出现。

We have a great team that works with innovation in textiles, in all kinds of materials, metal, and we always try and do what's right for each product individually, but create a family where you can really see the DNA from the father or mother. Really proud of. I'm sure you all know the Nest Thermostat. We just finished designing, redesigning it for the first time in 10 years, and we tried many, many, many different evolutions and forms, and this is what we came up with, which actually looks a lot like the drop of water, so super clean and pure. You still turn it like the, you know, we preserved what we loved about the Nest Thermostat. And the great thing is, I sent one to Tony Fadell, who was the creator of it, and he said, 'Oh my God, you guys surpassed my greatest dream.' So we knew we did well. But the beautiful thing about it is also, you can make it look like a clock. I don't have a picture of it, but then when you walk by, it senses that you're there and it delivers the temperature. So it just looks like a beautiful modern clock in your house, but then when you need the information, it appears.

我们当然，正如我喜欢说的，设计就是解决问题，而可持续发展是我们这个时代最大的问题之一。所以团队非常投入于可持续发展。事实上，我们承诺到 2025 年实现 100% 无塑料包装，而我们实际上在 2024 年就做到了。我真正自豪的是，我们随后发布了这份报告，开源了我们所有的做法和所有来源，以便整个包装行业都能从中受益。

We, of course, are, as I like to say, design is about solving problems, and sustainability is one of the greatest problems of our time. So the team is very involved with sustainability. And in fact, we had committed to 100% plastic-free packaging by 2025, and we actually achieved it by 2024. And what I'm really proud of is we then released this report open source, all of how we did it, all of our sources, so that the entire packaging industry could benefit from it.

大约三年前，我有机会为我们的硬件打造一个家。所以我们开了第一家零售店，大约三年前，与一位建筑师合作。但这是我们在山景城查尔斯顿的店。我真的很想创造一个温暖的环境，代表我们的许多原则。那是一家旗舰店。这是产品之一。我们在波士顿有一家，纽约有两家，还有更多在计划中。

I was given the opportunity, I think it was three years ago, to create a home for our hardware. So we opened our first retail store, I think it was three years ago, working with an architect. But this is our store in Charleston, down in Mountain View. And I really wanted to create an environment that was warm and represented a lot of our principles. And then that was a flagship store. This is one of the products. We have one in Boston, two in New York, and there are many more on the docket.

所以神经美学，它的定义，我不知道我和我的团队一直在实践这个。但神经美学是一门科学，研究艺术和美学如何改变我们的大脑和身体，带来更好的健康。所以我的合著者苏珊·麦格萨门大约六年前联系了我。她负责约翰霍普金斯大学的艺术与心智实验室，她联系了我，我右滑了。我通常每天收到大约 200 个邀请，而这个我说：“艺术与心智实验室，我最喜欢的两样东西，艺术和心智，”因为我学过艺术和心理学，我右滑了。她说：“我关注你的职业生涯 25 年了，”我说：“那叫跟踪。”等我缓过来后，她说：“不，不，不，听我说。她说：“科学现在正在证明你一直做和说的事情。”我说：“好吧，说来听听。”然后一个 30 分钟的电话变成了三个小时。我们最终在我的客厅里举办了一个艺术家和神经科学家之间的沙龙，最后她说：“天哪，我一直想写一本关于这个的书。你想和我一起写吗？”我说：“是的，我加入，”因为我是一个终身学习者。当我过去用自己的双手赢得所有这些奖项时，出版商常说：“哦，你写一本关于创造力或创新的书吧。”我说：“那是我每天做的事。对我来说，这必须是一次学习经历。”但这本书无论如何。

So neuroaesthetics, the definition of this, little did I know my team and I have been practicing this. But neuroaesthetics is the science of how art and aesthetics changes our brain and body for better health. And so Susan Magsamen, my co-author, had reached out about six years ago. She runs the Arts and Mind Lab at Johns Hopkins, and she linked me in, and I swiped right. I usually get about 200 invites a day, and this one I said, 'The Arts and Mind Lab, my two favorite things, art and the mind,' because I studied art and psychology, and I swiped right. And she said, 'I've been following your career for 25 years,' and I said, 'That's called stalking.' And after I got over that, she said, 'No, no, no, no, hear me out. She said, 'Science is now proving what you've always done and said.' And I'm like, 'Okay, come on, tell me.' And a 30-minute call became a three-hour call. We ended up having a salon in my living room between artists and neuroscientists, and at the end of it she said, 'Oh my God, I've always wanted to write a book on this. Do you want to do it with me?' And I said, 'Yes, I'm in,' because I'm a lifelong learner. And when I used to win all these awards myself and my own work with my hands, publishers used to say, 'Oh, you write a book on creativity or innovation.' I said, 'That's what I do every day. It has to be a learning experience for me.' But this book was anyway.

总之，米兰沙龙，这是意大利米兰一年一度的大型设计展。苏珊、我的谷歌设计工作室和她的实验室真正创造了神经美学的第一次物理体验。我们做的是开发了一个你佩戴的带有传感器的手环。这是 2019 年，我想，你在整个体验过程中都会佩戴它。她的实验室帮助创建了一个算法，确定你的身体在哪个房间空间压力最小或最放松。我会进一步解释。所以你戴上手环。我们与一位建筑师合作，创造了三个不同的客厅环境。每个都有不同的纹理、不同的音乐、不同的气味、不同的颜色、不同的灯光。我们要求人们，不带设备，不说话。它被称为“存在的空间”，因为想法是让你在每个空间里只是存在，感受美学：纹理、颜色、气味、音乐、形状。每个房间都截然不同。最后，我们有一个我们称之为“手环侍者”的人，不是调酒师，你取下手环。当然我们设计了一切，我们设计了手环放置的托盘。我们下载了你的数据，因为我们是谷歌，我们在交付给你后确实删除了它。但我们问人们：“你最喜欢哪个房间？”有些人说：“哦，第二个，因为我喜欢蓝色，”或者有人说：“第三个房间。”我们说：“嗯，你的身体喜欢第一个房间。”他们说：“天哪，怎么可能？”这是一个很好的方式来解释，我们的身体一直在感受，而我们的认知，你知道，你可以走进一个空间说：“我喜欢它，因为它看起来像……”

Anyway, Milan Salone, which is the big design fair in Milan, Italy, once a year. Susan, my Google design studio, and her lab created really the first physical experience of neuroaesthetics. What we did is we developed a band that you wore that had sensors in it. This was in 2019, I think, that you would wear throughout the experience. And her lab helped create an algorithm that was in which room space is your body least stressed or most at ease. I'll explain more. So you put the band on. We worked with an architect to create three different living room settings. Each one had different textures, different music, different scent, different colors, different lighting. And we asked people, no devices, no talking. It was called 'A Space for Being' because the idea was for you to just be in each space and feel the aesthetics: the texture, color, scent, music, shape. And each room was drastically different. At the end, we had what we called a 'band tender,' not a bartender, and you took the band off. And of course we designed everything, we designed the tray the band went in. We downloaded your data, and because we're Google, we did delete it after we delivered it to you. But we asked people, 'Well, which room did you like the best?' And some people said, 'Oh, the second one, 'cause I love the color blue,' or someone said, 'The third room.' And we said, 'Well, your body liked the first room.' And they're like, 'Oh my God, how could that be?' And it was a great way to explain that our bodies are feeling all the time, and our cognitive, you know, you could walk into a space and say, 'I love it because it looks like...'

你朋友的空间，或者它让你想起什么，但这并不一定意味着你的生理或身体同样喜欢它。所以我们为每个房间都做了交付，当然我们必须言行一致，所以我们想让数据也尽可能美观。但我们能够向他们展示，而且所有颜色都有含义——我就不细说了——但确切地展示了他们在每个房间待的六分钟里发生了什么，哪里出现了波动，颜色是什么，以证明他们的身体在每个房间里的反应都不同。所以这确实是这句话的体现，我认为，朱莉·吉尔·德泰勒说的：我们大多数人都认为自己是会思考的生物，偶尔会感受，但我们实际上是会感受的生物，会思考。当我真正吸收这一点时，因为我确实认为我们走来走去，以为我们在感受——我们是会思考的生物，偶尔感受一下——但我们实际上天生就是会感受的生物，会思考。

Your friend's space or it reminds you of something, but it doesn't necessarily mean that your physiology or your body likes it as much. So we delivered for each room, and of course we had to walk our talk, so we wanted to make the data be as aesthetic as well. But we were able to show them, and all the colors had meaning—I won't go into it—but exactly what was happening in the six minutes they were in each room, where the flare-ups were, what the color was, to prove that their body was reacting differently in each room. And so this was really the delivery, I think, of this quote that Julie Jil detailer said: most of us think of ourselves as thinking creatures that feel, but we are actually feeling creatures that think. And when I really absorb that, because I do think we walk around thinking that we're feeling—we're thinking creatures that feel once in a while—but we're actually wired and designed to be feeling creatures that think.

所以，你知道，正如我提到的，我们在 4 月——3 月或 4 月——23 年做了这本书。兰登书屋说：“女士们，书名里带‘艺术’的书从来上不了《纽约时报》畅销书榜。”我们说：“先生们，我们不是为了上《纽约时报》畅销书榜，我们做这本书是因为这些信息必须传播出去，关于艺术有多重要——我们稍后会讨论——但不仅仅是创作，无论是作为创作者还是观赏者，不带评判。甚至不一定要是好艺术；重要的是艺术创作的行为，以及通过认知来创作，嗯，这对我们的健康和幸福极其重要。”

And so, you know, as I mentioned, we did this book in April—March or April of '23. Random House said, 'Now ladies, a book with the word art in it never hits the New York Times bestseller list.' And we said, 'Now gentlemen, we're not doing it to make the New York Times bestseller list; we're doing it because this information has to get out about how important art is—and we'll talk about it later—but not just the making, either being the maker or beholder with no judgment. It's not even like it has to be good art; it's the act of art making, and making through knowing, um, that's extremely important for our health and well-being.

所以另一个米兰展览要和你分享，再次与这本书相关——这个叫“水之形”。我一直在研究声音和振动，记得我的团队对水非常投入。我给他们看了所谓的“声动学”，就是研究让声音可见的模式。你会说：“嗯，声音怎么能可见呢？”但如果你把声音通过纯净水，你可以看到声音在水中的模式和波浪。所以实际上，这是其中之一——这是苏珊的声音印记，另一个是我的。你得更好地了解我们俩才能知道哪个是哪个，但这确实是我们的声音通过水泵入水中，用摄像机俯拍捕捉水中的模式。所以看看当女性对水发出元音时会发生什么——嘿——你看着这个，你会想我们是 70% 的水。难怪音乐、声音，甚至我们彼此说的话——因为我们彼此说的话是振动——所以那种振动在水中产生影响。

So another Milan exhibition to share with you that again ties back to the book—this one was called 'Shaped by Water.' And I've been studying sound and vibration, and remember my team was very engaged in water. I had shown them something called cymatics, which is the study of making patterns—making sound visible. And you say, 'Well, how can sound be visible?' But if you put sound through pure water, you can watch the patterns and the waves that happen in the water through the sound. So actually, this is one of these—this is Susan's voice print and the other mine. You'd have to know both of us better to know whose is whose, but this is literally our voices pumped through water with a camera looking down and capturing the patterns in the water. And so watch what happens when a female makes vowel sounds into the water—hey—and you look at that and you think we're 70% water. No wonder music, sound, and even the words we say to each other—because the words we say to each other are vibration—and so that vibration has an effect in water.

所以对于米兰，我与一位年轻艺术家拉坎·特津合作，他制作了这些钢碗，每个碗有不同的音调，会振动水。它们美丽而精致，人们真的只想拥抱这些碗，站在旁边。但这是进入我们设计的剧场的入口，那是一个 14 英尺的穹顶。我们设计了一张沙发，每个人都可以躺下，观看 10 分钟的水从碗中流出的体验。你在中心看到的是一个放大镜，将图案投射到 14 英尺的穹顶上。你就能感受到那种氛围。我会给你几秒钟的音乐，一分钟后出现——不，哦，是的，有点低。这是最后一个视频，所以如果你调大音量也没关系。所以你可以看到音乐如何——不仅我们的声音改变图案，音乐也改变——现在想象一下，你躺在一个 14 英尺的穹顶下，这非常具有变革性。

So for Milan, I collaborated with a young artist, Lachan Terzin, who made these steel bowls with different tones in each of the bowls that would vibrate the water. They were beautiful and exquisite, and people literally wanted to just hug the bowls and stand by them. But this was the entrée into the theater that we designed, which was a 14-foot dome. And we designed a couch which everyone could lay back and watch a 10-minute experience of the water coming through the bowl. And what you see in the center there is a magnifying glass that projected the patterns up into the 14-foot dome. There you get a sense of it. And I'll give you just a few seconds of some of the music coming up in one minute—no, oh yeah, it's a little low. This is the last video, so if you make it louder it's okay. But so you can just see how the music—not only does our voice change the patterns, but the music—and now picture this under a 14-foot dome that you're lying underneath, and it's incredibly transformative.

事实上，我记得在媒体之夜，我让 14 位来自竞争杂志的人躺下，当他们——这段旅程，10 分钟的旅程结束时——他们坐起来，彼此相爱。他们就像：“哇，哇，那是不是一种变革性的体验？”然后我们有点像说，中间那个不锈钢碗就像现代的篝火。我说：“哦，我们刚刚重新创造了——你知道，我们在讲述彼此的故事，但通过一种体验。”

In fact, I remember during press night, I put 14 competing magazine people lying down, and when they—the journey, the 10-minute journey was over—they sat up and they loved each other. They were like, 'Wow, wow, was that like a transformational experience?' And we kind of then said it was like that stainless steel bowl in the middle was like the modern campfire. And I said, 'Oh, we just recreated—you know, we're telling each other's stories but through an experience.'

所以在米兰，这是我要和你分享的最后一件，在 23 年，我就像：“好吧，让我们看看所有的神经美学元素：声音、颜色、光。”所以去年是关于声音的，展览叫“理解颜色”。这些米兰展览是一种不可思议的方式——我相信我试着给我的团队提供体验，让他们超越我们每天所做的工作，因为我认为退后一步，在不同尺度上工作非常重要。所以“理解颜色”就是探索颜色听起来像什么，感觉像什么，闻起来像什么，看起来像什么。所以理想情况下，这里应该暗一点，但我们与威尼斯（加利福尼亚）的一个团队合作，叫 Chromos Sonic。他们开发了一个软件系统——他们是一个多元化的团队，由建筑师、声音工程师组成。你知道，颜色和声音只是频率——它们是波形。所以有一种关联：每种颜色都有波形，声音也是如此。所以他们开发了一个软件系统，每种颜色都有对应的声音。他们有一个体验叫“卫星 1”——如果你去加利福尼亚的威尼斯，我强烈推荐——你进去那里，你在看声音，听颜色。发生的事情是我们的头脑不习惯被这样混合，所以你立刻从认知思维中出来，进入你的身体。顺便说一句，艺术是最好的冥想形式。

And so in Milan, and this is the last thing I'll share with you, in '23 I was like, 'Okay, let's look at all the neuro-aesthetic elements: sound, color, light.' And so last year was about sound, and the show is called 'Making Sense of Color.' And these Milan shows are an incredible way—I believe I try and give my team experiences to apply themselves beyond what we make every day, because I think it's super important to zoom out and work at different scales. And so 'Making Sense of Color' was all about exploring what color sounds like, what it feels like, what it smells like, what it looks like. And so it should be ideally a little bit darker for this, but here we collaborated with a team in Venice, California, called Chromos Sonic. And they developed a software system—they're a multi-diverse team of architects, sound engineers. You know, color and sound are just frequency—they're waveforms. And so there is a correlation: every color has a waveform, and so does sound. So they developed a software system where every color has an equivalent sound. And they have an experience called 'Satellite 1'—if you're ever in Venice, California, I highly recommend it—where you go in there and you are seeing sound and hearing color. And what happens is our brains are not used to being that mixed up, and so you get out of your cognitive mind and into your body immediately. By the way, art is the best form of meditation.

所以这是一系列垂直的盒子，当参与者走过时——让我们看看这是否开始——随着颜色变化，与每种颜色相关的音调也变化了。再次，这是你必须体验的事情之一，但我们不习惯如此沉浸在频率或波长中。谢谢。视觉展示是开放的，是的。

So this was a series of these vertical boxes that as the participants walked through—let's see if this starts—as the colors changed, the tones associated with each color changed as well. And again, it's one of those things you have to experience, but we're not used to being so immersed in these frequencies or wavelengths. Thank you. The visual show is open, yeah.

所以那只是我目前参与的各种事情的一个小拼盘，我想说。是的，现在你可能明白为什么我热爱我的工作，我热爱我的团队，我热爱我们这本书得到的回应——从个人写信给我们说：“你给了我再次创作艺术的许可”，起初——我们对此感到非常难过，我们竟然必须给某人许可，因为我们说这对你非常好。但后来我们意识到，作为孩子我们经常这样做——顺便说一句，当我们说艺术时，它涵盖绘画、唱歌、跳舞、建筑——它是表达我们自己的东西。你知道我们被告知——肯·罗宾逊在幼儿园做过那个练习：“谁是艺术家？”每个人都举手。到一年级，一半的孩子；到三年级，没有人了，因为老师说：“树不是那样画的”或“房子不是那样画的”。所以我们被压制，或者我们继续，然后有人说：“嗯，你不可能靠那个谋生，所以别费劲了。”你知道，我认为我们一直在优化生产力和……

So that was just a poo-poo platter, I would say, of all the kinds of things I am currently involved in. Yeah, and now you probably see why I love my job, I love my team, and I love the response we've gotten to the book—everything from individuals writing to us saying, 'You've given me permission to make art again,' which at first—we were so saddened by that, that we should have to give someone permission, because we're saying it's really good for you. But then we realized, so often as children we do—and by the way, when we say art, it's everything from painting, singing, dancing, architecture—it's the things that express ourselves. That you know we're told—what was it Ken Robinson did that exercise in nursery school: 'Who's an artist?' Everyone raised their hand. By the first grade, half the kids; by the time they got to third grade, no one, because the teacher said, 'That's not the way you draw a tree' or 'That's not the way you draw a house.' And so we get shut down, or we keep going and then someone says, 'Well, you're not going to make a living at that, so don't bother.' And you know, I think we've been optimizing for productivity and...

自工业革命以来，我们把很多艺术搁置一旁，以为这样就会幸福。但我想我们都会同意，目前我们并不是最幸福的社会。这确实是因为我们天生就适合感官性的生活，而这通过美学、艺术创作以及作为艺术的接受者来实现。

Since the Industrial Revolution, we've pushed a lot of the arts aside, thinking we'd be happy. But I think we'd all agree we're not the happiest society at the moment. It's really because we're wired for the sensorial nature of life, which comes through aesthetics and art-making, and being the recipient of the arts.

哇，我个人还能再看一会儿那些视频，你知道，真的很美。你去过一些 Moron 的展览，对吧？

Wow, I could watch those videos for a bit longer, just personally, you know, actually so beautiful. You've been to some of the Moron shows, right?

其实我全都去过。我就是那些多年来一直追随你的人之一。

I've actually been to all of them. I'm one of those other people that's been following you around for years.

哦，你也是其中之一。我甚至把这个带来了，因为我舍不得扔掉。这是我在“存在空间”项目中的体验。

Oh, you're another one. I even brought this because I couldn't throw it away. This was my experience in the project 'The Space of Being'.

哦哇，你还留着。那真的很棒，因为我们偷偷打印出了你的身体最舒适的房间，然后我们给了每个人一张小纸条，上面写着那个房间里的元素。

Oh wow, you still have it. It was really amazing because we secretly printed out the room in which your body was most comfortable, and then we gave everyone a little printout of what were the elements in that room.

是的，那真的很了不起，因为你去这个设计展，它主要是关于物品的，不是关于技术的。事实上，很难找到技术；你看到的是更古老的技术，比如椅子制作之类的。但这是每个人都在谈论、必须去看、想要体验的项目。所以那是一个非常成功的项目。然后你会说，“好吧，下次我们不能让人失望，所以我们必须……”下一个体验是什么？所以它让人保持警觉。

Yeah, it was really remarkable because you go to this design fair, it's mostly a fair about objects, not about technology. In fact, it's hard to find technology; you're finding older technologies like chair-making and all kinds of things like that. But this was the project that everyone was talking about, had to see, and wanted to experience. So it was a really successful project. And then what happens is you kind of say, 'Okay, we can't disappoint next time, so we have to...' What's the next experience? So it keeps one on their toes.

我有个快速的观众问题。既然你们已经耐心听了 20 分钟，我想看看……如果今天你们真的做了有创意的事情——画了画、写了东西、做了东西——请举手。好的，你们都会活到 100 岁。那些举手的。那些没举手的，每月 45 分钟的艺术，你们会多活 10 年。所以那些没举手的人，你们中有人——除了刚才看到的——今天有没有体验或欣赏到美的东西？

I have a quick audience question. Since you've been patient for the last 20 minutes, I want to see... raise your hand if today you actually did something creative—drew something, wrote something, made something. Put your hand up. Okay, you're all going to live to be 100. Those that have your hands up. Those that have your hands down, 45 minutes of art a month, you'll live 10 years longer. So the ones who didn't put their hands up, did any of you—other than not counting what you just saw—did any of you experience or appreciate something aesthetic today?

我想我们是在对牛弹琴，但这也无妨。你知道，我们都是为了同一个原因聚在这里。所以我要跳过几个问题，因为你已经回答了一些。我会回到那里。我在想……我想问一些私人的问题。我知道你为别人创造了这些奇妙的体验，让他们拥有这种美学时刻。你生活中有什么经历是你经常回味的，是私人的——比如在树林里散步或一次音乐体验？有什么可以和我们分享的吗？

I think we're preaching to the choir, but that could be okay. You know, we're all here together for the same reason. So I'm going to jump over a few questions because you actually answered some. I'll come in there. I am thinking... I guess I wanted to ask something personal. So I know you've created all these amazing experiences for others to have this kind of moment of aesthetics. What is the experience that you've had in your life that you come back to, that is personal—a walk in the woods or an experience with music? Is there something you can share with us?

是的，有很多。我开始打鼓是因为我父母经常吵架，我用鼓声来淹没争吵声。我意识到它安慰了我，那确实是因为我的心与声音产生了共鸣。而且我是一个非常好奇的孩子，所以这让我想理解——这就是我走上声音之路的原因，比如到底发生了什么。但我总是……我父亲是工业设计师，为 Ray 和 Loy 工作，我小时候会爬进他的办公室。他有很多材料。所以制作是了解自己的一种方式。我一直这么觉得。我记得当我在房间里做创意项目时，我出去玩，然后我母亲把东西都收拾好了，我非常沮丧。我想，“哦不，她不明白”——那种创作的狂热或心流状态。所以我真的是为自己而成长，为了了解自己、安抚自己，会做艺术。我在一个……我父亲，就像我说的，他是 50 年代的设计师。你知道，大多数人可能只刷一面彩色的墙，但他为我们每个人选了一种颜色。他一点也不懂灵性，我在想他是怎么想出来的。但我的房间——每面墙和天花板都是这种特定的淡紫色，他还把地毯染成相配的颜色。所以我在一个紫色的盒子里长大。然后我意识到，你知道，我长大后跟着这位张大师学习，他让我们盯着色轮看一个小时，去感受那种颜色对我们产生的振动。你知道，紫色是更高频的冲击。我意识到，因为我从小就开始接触这些东西，这种认知。我想这是因为我就住在这个紫色盒子的振动中。所以我会说那也对我产生了影响。

Yeah, there's a lot. I started playing the drum because my parents would fight often, and I used it to drown out the sound. I realized it comforted me, and it was really because my heart would get in resonance with the sound. And I was an incredibly curious child, so that made me want to understand—that's how I got on the sound path, like what is really happening. But I was always... my dad was an industrial designer, worked for Ray and Loy, and I would climb into his office as a little kid, crawl into it. He had so many materials. And so making was a way for me to know myself. I always felt like that. And I remember being very upset when I would have a creative project in my room, I'd go out to play, and my mother had put everything back. I'm like, 'Oh no, she didn't understand'—that creative frenzy or that flow state. So I really grew up more for myself, for my own knowing myself, calming myself, would make art. And I grew up in a... my dad, like I said, he was a designer in the '50s. You know, most people had one color wall, maybe painted, but he picked a color for each of us. He wasn't very spiritual at all, and I'm figuring how did he figure this out. But my room was—every wall and the ceiling was this particular shade of lavender purple, and he had the carpet dyed to match. So I grew up in a purple box. And I realized then, you know, I grow up and I study with this Chiang master who has us stare at a color circle for an hour to feel the vibrations of what that color does for us. And you know, purple is of a higher shock. And I realized, because I started being tapped into all this stuff as a little kid, this knowing. And I think it's because I lived in the vibration of a purple box. So I would say that that had an effect on me as well.

哦天哪，我希望有一天你做一个紫色的盒子，我们都能进去。

Oh my goodness, I hope that at some point you make a purple box and we can all just get in that box.

你知道，我还想回到你的团队问一下。我是说，你的团队是谁？你能描述一下你的团队里都有谁吗？因为看起来要做出我刚才看到的东西，你需要各种专业知识。你是怎么把他们聚在一起，让他们能够共同朝着这样的项目努力的？

You know, I also wanted to ask a little bit about back to your team. I mean, who are your team? Can you describe who is on your team? Because it seems like to make what I just saw, you need all kinds of expertise. And how do you get them together to be able to work collectively towards projects such as this?

是的，你知道，我们是设计团队，但设计团队里实际上有 31 种不同的职位。所以你知道，有色彩、表面处理、材料；有工业设计；有包装设计；有项目经理；有 CAD 设计师；有一个叫 Seed Studio 的部门，他们制作像刚才我展示的恒温器那样的视频。还有作家。我的意思是，这真是一个庞大的阵容。我感到非常幸运，因为当我们开始 Google 硬件部门时，谷歌之前只做过一些硬件的参考模型。我从那里继承了一些人，但我不说具体数字，我们现在有几百人。而且我真的，你知道，我有直接下属，他们也有直接下属。其中一部分就是寻找志同道合的人，我们在设计上有原则。所以我认为当你能够创造时，这是一种巨大的礼物，就像在大公司里创建自己的公司。而且他们是……你知道，我一直认为多样性孕育创造力。再看看大自然，不是只有一种花，而是有成千上万种。如果只有一种花，世界会非常无聊。所以我必须说，我的团队，我很高兴我有来自世界各地的设计师。我的意思是，韩国、斯堪的纳维亚、日本、瑞士。我的意思是，这是一个非常多元化的团队。我们在原则上非常一致，我们发展，我们坚持这些原则，然后你知道，显然你必须发展，但它们对我们有效。你知道，因为你需要一些熟悉的东西，然后你需要一些惊喜和愉悦。所以我必须说，我称自己……当这显然不是我，而是我的团队时，我几乎感到内疚。但在我的工作层面，我把自己看作交响乐团的指挥。我的意思是，我曾经是一个制造者，现在我是其他制造者和梦想家的交响乐团指挥。我的工作是，作为交响乐团的指挥，非常了解我的乐器，也就是了解人，了解他们的天赋、才能和梦想。然后，作为指挥，确定我们要演奏的曲目。我的工作就是坚持这一点。

Yeah, so you know, we're the design team, but there's actually 31 different jobs within the design team. So you know, there's Color, Finish, Materials; there's industrial design; there's packaging design; there's program managers; there's CAD designers; there's something called Seed Studio, and they produce like that video that I showed of the thermostat. There's writers. I mean, it really is quite a cast. And I feel so fortunate because when we started Google Hardware, Google had only done some reference models of hardware previously. And I inherited a few folks from there, but I won't give the numbers, but we now have hundreds. And I got to really, you know, I have my direct reports and they have their direct reports. And part of it is really looking for like-minded people who we had principles in design. And so I think it's a great gift when you get to create, it's like creating your own company within a large company. And they are... you know, I always think diversity breeds creativity. Again, you look out in nature, there's not one species of flowers, there's thousands. And the world would be really boring with one species of flowers. And so I have to say my team, I am thrilled that I have designers from all over the world. I mean, Korea, Scandinavia, Japan, Switzerland. I mean, it's quite a diverse group. And we really aligned on our principles, and we evolve, we stay with them, and then you know, obviously you have to evolve, but they worked for us. You know, because you need something familiar and then you need some surprise and delight. So I have to say, I call myself... I almost feel bad when it's clearly this is not me, this is my team. But I think of myself as the orchestra conductor at this level in my job. I mean, I was a maker, and now I'm the orchestra conductor of other makers and dreamers. And my job is, as an orchestra conductor, to know my instruments really well in terms of the people and what their gifts and talents are and their dreams. And then, as the conductor, align on what's the piece we want to play. And my job is to hold that.

愿景是：多一点长号，少一点鼓，多一点小提琴，高音高，低音低，但我们一起演奏，这就是我热爱的。我知道当我还是个手艺人时——我对此非常感激——我最初是用双手创作，后来去上学，因为我的想法比手指还多，所以我必须学会把想法写在纸上，或者现在写在电脑上。但我认为，手与心之间的连接是无可替代的。所以我很庆幸自己能做到这一点。而且我很年轻的时候，二十多岁，作品就进了博物馆，因为我发明创造——因为我充满好奇，我就是会不断提问、发明技法。而最大的礼物是——因为那种虚荣感只持续了大约两周，因为有些人一辈子都渴望作品进博物馆，想着“要是能进去就好了”。而虚荣感两周就过去了，生活又恢复正常。我在 23 岁时意识到最大的礼物是：人生是一段旅程，而不是终点。所以一旦我深刻理解了这一点，它就变成了一场冒险。其中一部分是：我如何给予？当我自己最有创造力的时候，我如何为他人创造让他们最有创造力的条件？我想当人们问“你从手艺人转行进入企业界是为什么？”——你知道，就像我说的，你只活这一生，应该活出应有的样子，如果你留意什么吸引你的注意力并追随它，它会带你走上正确的道路。但我意识到，这么早就得到反馈，我真正要做的是为他人创造那样的条件。

Vision and say a little more trombone, a little less drum, a little violin, and the highs are high and the lows are low, but we do it together, and that is what I love. I know when I was a maker, which I am so grateful for, that I was a maker with my hands first, and then I went to school because I had more ideas than I had fingers, so I had to learn to put my ideas on paper or now on computer. But I think there's no substitute for the connection between your hand and your mind. So I'm so glad I was able to do that. And at a very young age, I was in my 20s when I got my work in museums because I invented—because I'm so curious, I would just ask questions and invent techniques. And the greatest gift—because the ego trip lasted for about two weeks, because there are some people that spend their whole life wanting to get their work in the museum, if only. And yeah, the ego trip lasted two weeks and life was back to normal. And I realized the greatest gift at 23 was learning that life is about a journey, not the end game. So once I deeply understood that, it became an adventure. And part of it was: how do I give? When I was my most creative, how do I create the conditions under which other people can be their most creative? And I think when people say, 'Why did you go into the corporate world from being a maker?'—it was, you know, I think like I said, you're here to live only the one life that you're supposed to live, and if you pay attention to what gets your attention and follow that, it leads you down the right path. But I realized, getting that feedback so early on, what I was really here to do was to create the conditions for others for that to exist.

所以大家，就像，超级成功，你知道，七个月后毕业时，做点了不起的事，然后回到工作中，别太把自己当回事，回去工作，放下它。不，我真的——我是说，我想——好吧，我想我也要回到这个话题。所以感谢你写了这本书。我是说，这是那种书——我拿起来，我碰巧在 SE Ranch 附近一个美丽的地方，所以我在加州树林里读它，我当时想：“天哪，天哪，哇，她说的是我直觉上已经知道的东西。”而且我觉得这也很有趣——我是说，我知道你在 Google 工作，但你还有所有这些其他事情。而且我认为能够把科学和技术带到无形的东西上，带到我们都认为真正有价值的东西上——这种创造精神和这种体验——并且真正尝试说：“嘿，这就是这些东西对你生活的实际影响。”所以我一边翻页一边说：“对对对对对。”但就像，我想知道——我们刚进来时你给我讲了一个很有趣的故事。就像，这本书到底是为谁写的？就像，我觉得你们都该读一读，它会肯定你们已知的一切，验证你们所学的东西。但谁应该读这本书？在人们说“哦，我读了这本书，它带来了改变”方面，你最有趣的经历之一是什么？

So everyone, like, be super successful, you know, in seven months when you graduate, do something incredible, and then get back to work, get over yourself, get back to work, get over it. No, I really—I mean, I think—well, I guess I also want to go back. So thank you for writing this book. I mean, it's one of those books—I picked it up, I happened to be in a beautiful place up near SE Ranch, so I was reading it in the woods in California, and I was like, 'Oh my God, oh my God, oh wow, she's saying something that I intuitively knew.' And I think it's so interesting, too—I mean, again, I know you work at Google, but you also have all this other stuff that you do. And I think being able to bring science and technology to the invisible, right, to the thing that we all believe is really valuable—this creative spirit and this kind of experience—and to actually try to say, 'Hey, this is the actual output that these things have on your life.' So I was page-turning and saying, 'Yep, yep, yep, yep, yep.' But it's like, I wonder—you told me a quite interesting story just when we walked in. It's like, who is this book really for? Like, I think you should all read it, you're going to—it's going to affirm everything you already know, validate what you're studying. But who should be reading this book? And what's been one of your more interesting experiences in terms of people saying, 'Oh, I read this and it made a difference'?

是的，就像我说的，从个人说“谢谢你给了我许可”，到组织现在基于这本书筹集资金。我给你举一个让苏珊和我都热泪盈眶的例子，因为他们说要给我们这个“远见奖”。那是——一位年轻女性，她是平面设计师。她的儿子得了癌症，你知道当你处于创伤中时，大脑的布罗卡区常常会关闭，语言功能会失效。所以她开始和他一起画画，作为一种交流他感受的方式，等等。她说——不幸的是，他七岁时去世了——她说：“我要成立一个基金会”，她会配对一位艺术家，在整个过程中陪伴一个家庭，无论孩子是否存活。我想，我甚至不知道有这样的组织，她做这件事真是太了不起了。你可以去找她，她会找到一位艺术家，在整个过程中与家庭合作，因为当你——你知道，艺术是表达自我的绝佳方式，尤其是在没有语言的时候，或者语言——诗歌是很好的方式。所以这是一个极端。然后老师们也来了——我们，苏珊和我，在盖蒂博物馆对 500 位学区总监演讲，他们——你知道，加州通过了法案，要在每间教室配备一名艺术老师。顺便说一句，有趣的是，没有足够的合格艺术老师毕业。我想第一年就需要大约 5000 名。所以他们甚至考虑开发一个应用程序，让当地艺术家可以联系当地学校。但我们真正对他们说的是：不要只是放一个艺术老师进去然后打勾。这是一种心态。审美或创造性的心态应该贯穿整个课程，因为我们在书中写到的——而且这已被证明，我是说数学、艺术，所有这些——拥有这种心态的孩子，我们多年来一直知道这一点，但现在科学正在证明——在执行功能方面表现更好。我是说，他们在生活中做得更好。所以我也早些时候和别人分享了一个故事——我们接到一家制药公司的电话。他们说：“你们能来谈谈你们的书吗？”我们说：“制药公司？为什么？”CEO 说：“嗯，我上学时是个画家，我选择进入制药行业，但我从未放弃绘画，我把我的突破——这是一家超级成功的公司，我就不提名字了——我的突破归功于我一生都在绘画。”我说，绝对如此，这是一种创造性心态，通过锻炼那块肌肉并保持锻炼，它带来的好处远不止字面上的——你知道，我受过这方面的训练，我要成为这个。所以我们也在大学演讲过。我们的书被选为新生读物，发给了加州大学圣巴巴拉分校的所有新生。是的，那很美好。那是在校园扎营事件期间，大学校园里发生的事。苏珊和我到达后，我们做了演讲，然后所有这些学生出来，压力很大，但他们说：“哦，谢谢，我们成立了舞蹈俱乐部或设计俱乐部或音乐俱乐部，他们用书中的信息来——”你知道，因为有很多缓解压力的方法，用双手做事能让左右脑协同。甚至涂鸦——哦，他们感谢我们，因为书中谈到，我们在学校会被打手心的那些事——实际上，如果你在听讲座时涂鸦，你正在激活大脑中负责记忆的部分，所以如果你边听边画或涂鸦，你实际上能更好地记住老师说的话。所以，学生们很喜欢这些事实。

Yeah, well, like I said, everything from the single individual saying 'thank you for giving me permission' to organizations that have now raised money based on the book. And I'll give you one example that brought tears to Susan's and my eyes, because they said we want to give you this Visionary award. For—it's a young woman who is a graphic designer. Her son got cancer, and you know when you're in trauma, the Broca region of the brain shuts down often, and words don't work. And so she started drawing with him as a way to communicate what he was feeling, etc. And she said—and he unfortunately passed when he was like seven—and she said, 'I'm going to start a foundation' where she would pair up an artist that would stay with a family throughout the entire course of whether the child survived or didn't. And I thought, I didn't even know there was such an organization, and what an amazing thing for her to do. That you could go to her and she'll find an artist that works with the family throughout the process, because when you—you know, the arts are such a great way to express yourself, especially when there is no language, or language—poetry is such a great way. So that's one extreme. And then teachers are coming out—we, Susan and I, spoke at the Getty Museum to 500 school superintendents, who—you know, California passed the bill to put an art teacher in every classroom. By the way, the interesting thing is there aren't enough people graduating accredited as art teachers. I think they needed like 5,000 the first year. And so they are looking to develop even an app where a local artist could connect with a local school. But we really spoke to them about: don't just put an art teacher in and check the box. It's a mindset. The aesthetic or creative mindset is one that should be woven throughout the curriculum, because things we write about in the book—and it's proven, I mean math, art, all those things—kids who have that, and we've known this for years, but now the science is proving it—do better at executive function. I mean, they do better in life. So I also was sharing earlier with someone the story about—we got a call from a pharmaceutical company. They said, 'Could you come talk about your book?' And we said, 'A pharmaceutical company? Why?' And the CEO said, 'Well, I was a painter in school, and I chose to go into pharmaceutics, but I never gave up painting, and I attribute my breakthrough—this is a super, I won't mention the name, super successful company—my breakthrough to the fact that I painted my whole life.' And I said, absolutely, it is a creative mindset that, by exercising that muscle and keeping it exercised, has so many other benefits than literally—you know, I was trained in this, I'm going to become this. So we also spoke at a university. Our book was picked as the incoming freshman book in the entire—it was given to like all the freshmen at UC Santa Barbara. Yeah, and it was beautiful. It was during the encampment, what was happening on college campuses. And Susan and I arrived, we gave a talk, and then all these students came out, and there was such stress, but they said, 'Oh, thank you, we started the dance club or the design club or the music club, and they were using the information in the book to—' and you know, because there's all kinds of things for stress, and doing things with both hands brings your right and left half of your brain together. Even doodling—oh, they thanked us because in the book it talks about how all the things we would get slapped for at school—actually, if you're listening to a lecture and you're doodling, you are activating a part of the brain for memory, so you're actually going to retain what the teacher says better if you're drawing or doodling while listening. So I mean, the students loved some of these facts.

美妙之处在于，现在我们受邀去蒙托里学校演讲，教育家长。苏珊和我都有全职工作，所以我们必须休假才能参加与这本书相关的活动。因此，我们精心挑选那些我们认为能产生最大影响的地方。

The beautiful thing has been that now we're getting talks to Montauri schools and educating the parents. Susan and I both have full-time jobs, so we have to take vacation days to do any of the gigs related to the book. So we're picking carefully those places where we think it can have the greatest impact.

嗯，谢谢你分享这些。我的意思是，那一定感觉棒极了。

Well, thank you for sharing those. I mean, that must feel amazing.

确实如此，我不得不说。我们只是想把这些信息传播出去，但它成了最美丽的礼物。怎么说呢？如果你从“无”出发做事——这其实就是“玩”的定义——没有期待。玩就是做与日常不同的事，但没有期待，因为我们太习惯于做任何事都为了某个结果。我喜欢“玩”这个概念，即没有期待。所以当我回想时，这真的奏效了。它是如此发自内心。就像，“天哪，世界需要知道这些信息，所以我们就写下来，发布出去。”当然，我说得轻松。那是三年时间，采访了一百个人，从大卫·伯恩到 E.O. 威尔逊，非常了不起。但回馈给我们的礼物是，我们触动了生命，人们筹集了资金，人们开始以不同的方式思考。

It does, I have to say. We just wanted to get the information out there, but it has been the most beautiful gift. How can I say this? If you do things coming from a 'no,' which is actually the definition of play—no expectations. Play is doing something different than you do every day, but without expectations, because we are so used to everything we do to get a certain outcome. I love the concept of play, which is no expectations. So when I think back, this really worked. It was so heartfelt. It was like, 'Oh my God, the world needs to know this information, so we'll just write it and put it out there.' Of course, I'm making it sound easy. It was three years and interviewing a hundred people, everything from David Byrne to E.O. Wilson, and it was remarkable. But the gift that has come back to us is the lives that we've touched, the people that raised money, and the people that are thinking about it differently.

是啊，我是说，它太……我的意思是，我读这本书时，书上满是高亮标记，因为我会想，“我得查查那个人，我从没听说过这个组织，哦，我不知道这件事在发生。”所以它真是个宝库。

Yeah, I mean, it's so... I mean, again, I'm reading the book, my book's full of highlights because I'm like, 'I've got to look up that person, I've never heard of this organization, oh I didn't know this thing was happening.' So it's such a treasure trove.

人们给我们发来书的照片，上面贴满了彩色标签。我们发在社交媒体上，因为他们真的从未标记过这么多东西。嗯，因为这不全是我们的功劳。就像我说的，我们采访了一百个人，所以这是……的智慧，我们做到了。

People send us pictures of the book with all of the colored tabs. We posted on our social media because literally they've never marked off so many things. Well, because it wasn't all us. I mean, like I said, we interviewed a hundred people, so it's the wisdom of... and we made it.

我还想对那些有创造力的人说，不要放弃。我们尝试了两次写这本书。实际上，这本书在疫情前就开始了，如果我们当时成功了，它会在疫情前出版。之后，因为真的很难把握——我们想加入一些科学内容，但又想让它易懂。我们想讲故事，想有情感。这是非常有趣的分歧，必须同时兼顾。所以苏珊和我开始了，按学科分类会更容易，比如一章讲舞蹈，一章讲设计，一章讲绘画。但我们想，有人会看着书说，“我不是画家，我不是舞者。”所以我们改成按最终结果分类——心理健康、身体健康、学习等——这更难，因为我们不得不舍弃一些。但我们又试了一次，我们的经纪人不够好。女士们，我说，“好吧，就像一幅画：退后，退后，离开画，休息一下。”然后大约三个月后我们回来，我们成功了。就像——我以前是织布工——就像在四综织机上，突然经线和纬线，一切都交织在一起。而那次延迟意味着书在疫情后出版，我认为这尤其有力。所以我总是说，你可能当时不知道事情为什么被耽搁，所以不要气馁，因为通常宇宙有计划，你可能只是还不知道。但如果你从正确的地方出发，通常会成功。

Another thing I want to say for those of you who are creative is this idea of never giving up. We tried two attempts at the book. Actually, the book started pre-COVID, and had we nailed it, it would have come out before COVID. After, because it's really hard to figure out—we wanted to get some of the science in there, but we wanted it to be understandable. We wanted to tell stories, we wanted to have emotion. It's like really interesting divergent things to have to do together. So Susan and I started, and it would have been easier to do it by discipline, like a chapter on dancing, a chapter on design, a chapter on painting. But we thought someone's going to look at the book and go, 'I'm not a painter, I'm not a dancer.' So we changed it to be by end result—mental health, physical health, learning, etc.—which was more difficult because we had to leave it in. But we tried a second time, and our agent was not good enough. Ladies and I said, 'All right, it's like a painting: step away, step away, back off of the painting, give yourself a break.' And then we came back to it like three months later, and we nailed it. It was like—I used to be a weaver—so it was like on a four-harness loom, all of a sudden the warp and weft, it was all coming together. And that delay meant the book launched after COVID, which I think was particularly powerful. So I always say, you may not know in the moment why things get held up, so don't get discouraged, because usually the universe has a plan, and you just may not know it yet. But if you come out from the right place, it usually pans out.

太好了。谢谢你。我稍微换个话题。我其实有很多问题，但我再问两个。你知道，做功课的时候，我看了很多你有趣的采访和你做的各种公开活动。但其中一个真正打动我的是，你和苏珊在阿斯彭思想节上，那真是个了不起的地方。你特别说，“机器有传感器，但没有感官。”我觉得这是思考“我与机器有何不同”的绝佳方式，因为我想我们都关心、兴奋于理解 AI。我就想，这说法多么重要，值得我思考。我想知道你能不能多谈谈你现在怎么看这个。

That's lovely. Thank you. I'm going to shift gears just a minute. I've actually got so many questions, but I'm going to ask two more. So, you know, in doing my homework, I watched a lot of really fun interviews with you and various other public things that you've done. But one of the ones that really struck me was you were with Susan at the Aspen Ideas Festival, which what an amazing place to be. And you said specifically, 'Machines have sensors but they don't have senses.' And I just thought that was such a compelling way to think about how am I different than a machine, because I think we're all concerned about, excited about figuring out AI. And I'm just like, how was such an important thing to say and for me to think about. I wonder if you could talk a little bit more about how do you think about that now.

是的，所以我的观点是，我认为技术是工具，我支持那些放大我们人性的技术，而不是让我们脱离人性。我认为现在 AI 的出现非常有趣，AI 已经伴随我们——我的意思是，谷歌地图就用 AI——但就这种放大而言，在某些方面，它会替我们承担一些理性的事情，那些我们作为人类不需要做的事情。它会，但因此我们人类必须做的是，向内探索，运用我们的想象力和创造力，真正看看哪些是只有人类能做的事情，以及我们如何通过感官获取信息，并建立不仅仅基于数据的联系。我认为它会推动我们——或者我这么看——我们现在需要回到内心，更好地理解这一点，这样我们才能与机器共同驾驶，就像想象力与理性，一起把我们带到一个我们甚至无法想象的新地方。我的意思是，我不是一个害怕未知的人，我喜欢踏入未知，但就像我们必须承担责任。当我想到这一点，是的，机器有传感器，但没有感官系统。然而，不，我不认为它们——我的意思是，我不想——我相信思想是磁荷，所以我不会把它放到领域里。我会坚持我能做的。是的，把它拿回来。所以我认为，你知道，我和一位作家在一起，他说——这关乎我们如何使用这些东西，对吧——一位作家说，“天哪，现在我可以做很多研究，让 AI 研究这些东西，所以我在写作日程中有更多时间做创意写作。”我知道我的创造力，因为我找回了半生，我可以把它投入到创作过程中。所以我认为我们都必须思考：我们如何接受让机器做一些理性的事情，但我们必须放大我们将添加到这些项目中的人性和诗意。

Yeah, so my perspective is, I think technology is a tool, and I'm into technology that amplifies our humanity, doesn't take us out of it. I think AI coming in right now is really interesting, and AI has been with us—I mean, Google Maps uses AI—but in terms of this amplification of it, in some ways it will take some of the rational things off our plate for us, which are things that we don't need to do as humans. And it will, but what we humans have to do therefore is to go inside and exercise our imagination and our creativity, and really look at what are those things that only humans can do, and how do we take information in through our senses and make connections that isn't only based on data. And I think it's going to push us—or this is the way I see it—we need to now go back inside ourselves and understand this better, so that we can then co-pilot back with the machines, like the imaginative and the rational, and together bring us to a new place that we can't even imagine yet. I mean, I'm someone that's not afraid of the unknown, I like stepping into it, but it's like we have to take responsibility. And when I thought about it, it was yeah, machines have sensors but they don't have sensory systems. And yet, no, and I don't think they—I mean, I don't want to—I believe thoughts are magnetic charges, and so I'm not going to put that out in the field. I'm going to stay with what I could do. Yeah, take it back up. So I think that's, you know, I was with a writer who said—and it's about how we use these things, right—a writer who said, 'Oh my God, now I can do a lot of my research, ask AI to research these things, and so I have more time in my year schedule of writing to do the creative writing.' And I know my creativity because I got half my life back, and I could put that into the creative process. So I think that's what we all have to think about: how do we be okay with letting the machines do some of the rational things, but we therefore have to amplify the humanity and the poetry that we're going to add to these projects.

是的，我认为我们确实有能力看到关于自己的隐形事物，对吧？我的意思是，我觉得这很令人兴奋，你知道，知道我自己睡了几个小时，睡得怎么样，诸如此类，因为它给了我一种思考我的世界和我做对了什么的方式。我晚上过得好吗？我，你知道，回家路上闻到什么美好的气味了吗？所以我认为技术与帮助我们了解自己之间的关系，是的，然后采取……

Yeah, and I think definitely the sort of the capacity that we have now to see things that are invisible about ourselves, right? I mean, I find it thrilling, you know, to know how many hours I slept and how well I slept and all those kind of, because it gives me a way to think about my world and what I did right. Did I have a great evening? Did I, you know, smell something beautiful on the way home? So I think that relationship between technology helping us know ourselves and yeah, and then taking...

责任——你打算怎么做？因为我觉得获取信息是一回事，但你知道，我们拿这些信息做什么？这是人类的创造性活动，所以这是给所有人的问题：我们拿它做什么，对吧？在你的课上，我们一会儿回到课堂。所以我有最后一个总结性的问题，然后我会留几分钟给观众提问。既然你们都在这儿，你们太好奇了，你知道，我的意思是，我看到你们就在钻研所有这些不同的领域。我记下了那些词，我在读你的书，终身学习，对吧？我是不是在这么做？就像我问自己，我在学什么？你知道，我想学什么？你学了各种不可思议的东西，对吧，那些似乎和设计毫无关系，却又和设计的意义息息相关。我想知道，你现在在学什么？目前摆在桌面上的是什么？

Responsibility for what are you going to do about it? Because I think it's one thing to get information, but then you know, what do we do with the information? A human creative exercise, so this is the question for all of you: what do we do with it, right? In your class, we go back to class in a minute. So I have one kind of wrap-up question, and then I'm going to leave a few minutes for a couple of questions for the audience. Since you're all here, you're so curious, you know, I mean, I see you just kind of delving into all these different areas. And I wrote down the words and I was reading your book, lifelong learning, right? Am I doing this? Like I was asking myself, what am I learning? You know, what am I trying to learn about? And you've learned all kinds of unbelievable things, right, that seem to have no relationship to design, and yet every relationship to what it means to design. And I'm wondering, like, what are you learning now? What is currently on the table?

嗯，你知道，我进入这个领域是因为这个想法：关注那些吸引你注意力的东西。我给了自己这份礼物——当某件事，或者我读到的某样东西，就像爱丽丝掉进兔子洞一样，我想了解更多，这就是好奇的部分。我进入声音领域是因为我读到——我在医生办公室，拿起一本耳朵期刊，读到关于法国一个男人用音符轰击癌细胞并把它们分解的故事。我一直——我有，我不是顺风耳，我是克莱尔，我忘了我是哪种通灵者——但当我感知到事情为真时，我身体里会有一种感觉，然后我总是用逻辑去检验它。就像，好吧，我们用超声波打碎肾结石，那是频率，那是声音，那为什么不行？而且你知道，歌剧演唱家能震碎玻璃，我们找到共振频率，然后我们就跳舞。所以我有点像沿着这条路走下去，我觉得这很有道理。然后你知道，我拿我在企业界赚的钱，跳上飞机，和这个法国男人学一个周末，再跳回飞机。所以我对理解生命和它如何运作有着永不满足的渴望，这就是我如何进入声学等领域。所以现在我正在学习生物几何学，由一位埃及建筑师教授，因为他们研究了——这是几何学，你知道，埃及人甚至知道微小的角度变化——这就是为什么金字塔有特定角度——会释放出不同的能量电荷。而且每一次——你知道，当我们做平面设计时，我们在纸上画一条线，你就在打破负空间和正空间。所以他用这些不可思议的埃及钟摆教我们，你知道，在桌子底下，我可以拿一个原型，然后说，好吧，这个形状释放更多能量还是那个形状释放更多能量？因为我认为我们会开始越来越理解——而你说得对——让不可见变得可见，就像视觉化展示声音的作用，来更好地理解我们周围的事物和能量。我还修了——我获得了——我毕业于能量医学。我大约 7 年前学的。我会在谷歌下班后晚上去上能量医学课。所以我不会放弃。这有点——但它们都相互关联。就像我学了能量医学，然后我发现形状会释放能量，那能量如何影响我们的身体？所以我认为这是一个全新的科学世界。但这是我的旅程，你知道，所以我不推荐——这不是关于追随我的旅程，而是关注那些吸引你注意力的东西，然后做这个理智检查，你知道，然后投入其中。就是这种承诺——因为对我来说，学习这些新事物是一个创造性的过程，然后说，我如何应用它？比如，如果你告诉我——因为我 25 年前学了声学——有一天我会在米兰做一个由谷歌赞助的展览，与我目前理解的真实相关，我会说，什么？这就是我要说的：如果你跟随你的心，跟随注意力线，几年后一切都会变得清晰。我的意思是，我非常感激，因为我意识到这本书是我学到的许多东西和生活中做过的事情的结晶，它是给我自己的一份大礼，尤其是当我们看到反应时。

Well, you know, I got into this because of this idea of paying attention to what gets your attention. And I've given myself the gift when something—either something I read—it's like Alice going through the rabbit hole, like I want to learn more, and that's the curious piece. And I got into sound because I read—I was in a doctor's office and I picked up an ear journal, and I read about a man in France that was bombarding cancer cells with musical notes and breaking them up. And I always—I have, I'm not clairaudient, I'm Claire, I forget what kind of clairvoyant I am—but I have a sensation in my body when I know things are true, and then I always test it with the logical. It's like, okay, we break up—we use ultrasound to break up kidney stones, that's frequency, that's sound, so why not? And you know, an opera singer can break a glass, we find the resonant frequency, and then we dance. So I kind of go down this track, and I'm like, this makes a lot of sense. And then you know, I take the money I earn in the corporate world, and I hop on a plane and study with this man in France for a weekend, and hop back on the plane. So I'm relentless about—I have this hunger for wanting to understand life and how it all works, and that's how I got into understanding cymatics, etc. So right now I'm studying biogeometry, which is taught by an Egyptian architect, because they've studied—it's the geometry, you know, the Egyptians even knew that slight angle changes—that's why the pyramid is at a certain angle—will give off a different energetic charge. And every—you know, when we do even graphic design, a line we put on a piece of paper, you're breaking the negative and the positive space. And so he's teaching us with these incredible Egyptian pendulums to, you know, under the desk, I could take a prototype and go, okay, does this shape give more energy or this shape give more energy off? Because I think we're going to start to understand more and more—and you said it—making the invisible visible, like visually showing what sound does, to understand more about what's around us and the energy. I've also taken—I've gotten a—I graduated in energy medicine. I studied that like 7 years ago. I would go at night after Google, go to my energy medicine class. So I will not give up. It's kind of—but they all relate. It's like I studied energy medicine, then I find out that shapes give off energy, and how does that energy affect our bodies? And so I think this is a whole new world of science. But it's my journey, you know, so I don't recommend—it's not about following my journey, it's paying attention to what gets your attention, and then doing this sanity check, you know, and then committing to it. It's just this kind of commitment—because for me, it's a creative process to learn these new things, and then say, how do I apply it? Like, if you told me—because I learned about cymatics 25 years ago—that someday I'd be doing an exhibition in Milan sponsored by Google that has to do with what I'm understanding to be true now, I would have said what? And that's what I'm saying: if you follow your heart and you follow the attention line, it will become clear years later. I mean, I feel so grateful because I realize this book is a culmination of many things I've learned and things I've done in life, and it's a huge gift back to myself, especially when we saw the reaction.

听起来另一本书正在酝酿中。就像我只做一次——另一件事是我只做一次。我生了一个孩子，我跳过一回伞。这是我职业生涯的原因——就像我永远不会——人们过去常说，你是玩具设计师吗？你是平面设计师吗？还是你是什么？我会说，我就是我，我带着我自己，我应用我自己。我看到了贯穿线，因为它是——所以我只做一次，所以我不确定还有另一本书，但也许有一种新的交流形式，信息会出来，或者我们有时能真正体验艾维的大脑。

And it sounds like a whole other book is in the making somewhere. Like I only do things—the other thing is I only do things once. I had one child, I jumped out of a plane once. It's a reason why my career—like I'll never—people used to say, are you a toy designer? Are you a graphic designer? Or what are you? And I would say, I am me, and I take me with me, and I apply me. I see the through line because it's—so I only do things once, so I'm not sure there's another book, but maybe there's a new form of communication where information will come out, or we can experience Ivy's brain sometimes for real.

哦，不，不，我希望我们不会那样。也许有人会尝试，但我希望不会。

Oh no, no, I hope we don't go there. Someone may try to, but I hope not.

我认为这是给在座所有人的一个非常好的信息：真正跟随你自己的道路，你知道，继续前进，因为有时它没有意义，然后它就有意义了。通常它在当下没有意义，然后你发现，哇，这就是我被推动去做那件事的原因。连接起来，然后你做出——我的意思是，我现在知道神经可塑性，我的意思是，我学到了很多，但把自己置于新的位置、新的情境中，对你的大脑不断建立这些新的神经连接非常重要，而不是把自己挖得更深，重复同样的事情。我们只是把同一条神经通路挖得越来越深，而不是——我的意思是，这就是为什么医生给人们开处方让他们去博物馆，因为重要的是你让自己去看一些新的东西，可能不是你的风格，但看看它，看看会发生什么。

I think that's such a good message to everyone here: to really follow your individual path and, you know, keep going, because sometimes it doesn't make sense, and then it does make sense. Often it doesn't make sense in the moment, and then you find out it's like, wow, that's why I was pushed to do that. Connects, and then you make—I mean, I now know with neuroplasticity, I mean, I've learned so much, but putting yourself in new positions, new situations is so important for your brain to make these new neuro connections constantly, versus digging ourselves deeper repeating the same things. We just dig the neuro pathway the same one deeper and deeper, versus—I mean, it's why doctors are writing prescriptions for people to go to museums, because it's important that you put yourself looking at something new that you may not—it's not your style—but look at it and see what happens.

是的，在书中读到这个很吸引人，去博物馆的处方。我从来没有收到过，但我会喜欢的。

Yeah, that was fascinating to read that in the book, a prescription to go to a museum. I never got that, but I would love that.

是的，嗯，如果你不介意——你愿意回答观众的几个问题吗？

Yeah, um, if you don't—would you take a couple of questions for the audience?

是的，我可能不需要麦克风。

Yeah, I probably don't need a mic.

你能谈谈不害怕未知吗？最近我读到一些关于害怕未知的人和不害怕未知的人的不同特征的文章。我会认为大多数创意人都有那种——我不害怕未知——但我不知道。你对此有什么发现？

Can you talk about not being afraid of the unknowing? Recently I read something about the different characteristics of people who are afraid of the unknown versus sort of people that are not afraid of the unknown. And I would think most creatives have that—I'm not afraid of the unknown—but I don't know. And what did you find out about that?

哦，那只是我个人的看法。我不害怕未知，因为对我来说这是一种创造性的行为。嗯，我现在明白了为什么我的大脑可能喜欢处于未知中，因为我在建立新的连接。那么书里有什么吗？有一章吗？

Oh, that was just my own personal perspective. I'm not afraid of the unknown, because to me it's a creative act. Well, I now understand why my brain probably likes being in the unknown, because I'm making new connections. So is there something in the book? A chapter?

没有，没有。书里有很多关于神经可塑性的内容，把自己置于新情境中的重要性。是的，有很多关于这方面的信息。但是，是的，这是个有趣的说法。我想知道我是否——

Nope, there isn't. There's a lot in the book about neuroplasticity, the importance of putting yourself in new situations. Yeah, there's a lot of information about that. But yeah, that's an interesting statement. I wonder if I—

我不认为所有人都是创意型的人。我不知道这里有多少人不害怕未知。好，看，差不多一半一半。所以我觉得这很个人化。我几乎可以说，如果我处于静止的水中，我会感到无聊，但我知道这是我的天性。所以我几乎从不重复做同一件事超过一次。但我完全尊重那些喜欢稳定的人。不过为了你的大脑，即使你喜欢稳定，也应该偶尔尝试迈出一步。谢谢。我不会改变。我觉得这些人会。这边怎么样？稍等。你好。好的，就这样。

I don't think it's all creative people. I don't know how many people here are not afraid of the unknown. Okay, so see, it's like half and half. So um, I think it's very personal. I get bored if I'm in still water almost, but I know that's my chemistry. So I almost, that's why I never repeat something more than once. But I totally honor someone who likes the stability. But for your brain, even if you like stability, you should try and step out once in a while. Thank you. I'm not changing. I think these people are. How about right here? Hold on. Hello. All right, there you go.

你曾描述过很多人起步时的共同旅程。当我们很小的时候，我们感到创造的自由，但随着成长，这种自由开始以某种形式受到限制或约束。所以我想知道，如果不是针对你自己，你如何看待对他人进行某种干预，帮助他们重新解锁那种创造自由？

So at one point, I think you described a common journey for a lot of people starting out. When we're really young, you know, we feel the freedom to create, and as we grow up, you know, that starts to be constricted or restrained in some form. So I'm wondering, if not for yourself, how do you see in other people an intervention of sorts that helps them re-unlock that creative freedom?

好问题。首先，我认为未来绝对是多元职业的，也就是说，那些固定的职业通道已经结束了。你知道，在我那个年代，人们会问“你长大后想做什么？”然后你就只做那一件事。这就是为什么我喜欢生物工程。设计师会和科学家并肩工作。我的意思是，会出现各种新的职业，而且我认为我们甚至在学校里就必须进行交叉训练。有一所很有意思的医学院，是沃尔玛的艾丽斯·沃尔顿资助的，一半是艺术，一半是医学，医生必须上艺术课。这是一个非常有趣的对话。但我知道，对我的设计团队，我会鼓励他们，带他们去看别的东西。如果我们是电子设计师、设备设计师，不要看别人的设备，去看家具。这种交叉训练，你真的必须自我要求。我认为这取决于你自己，我也希望学校将来能更多地这样做，进行交叉融合，因为我认为要解决未来的问题，我们必须管理我们所面对复杂性。我们必须成为复杂的个体，必须拥有不止一项技能，并把多维技能带到桌面上来。所以我认为这既在教育方面，也在个人方面，你要为自己制定这样的计划，不断接触不同的事物，在不太可能的地方持续获得灵感。我也努力为我的团队这样做，给予他们鼓励。工作很有趣。我认为有团队经验。

Good question. Um, first of all, I think the future is absolutely multi-diverse occupations, meaning I think those swim lanes are over. You know, in my day, it was like, 'What do you want to be when you grow up?' and you're just that. I think it's why I love bio-engineering. It's like a designer is going to be next to a scientist. I mean, there's going to be all kinds of new occupations, and I think we have to cross-train even in our schools. There's an interesting medical school that Alice Walton from Walmart is funding that is half art and half doctors, so that doctors are required to take art classes. That's a whole interesting conversation. But I think, like, I know for my design team, I encourage them, and I take them to look at other things. If we are electronic designers, device designers, don't look at other people's devices; go look at furniture. It's like this cross-training that you really do have to impose upon yourself. I think it's up to you, and I'm hoping schools do this more in the future, to cross-pollinate, because I think to solve the problems of the future, we're going to have to manage the complexity of what we're dealing with. We have to be complex beings. We have to have more than one skill and bring multi-dimensional skills to the table. So I think it's both on the education side, but it's also on the individual side, to create that program for yourself of always looking at different things and keep inspiring yourself in unlikely places. And I try and do that for my team, give them that encouragement. It's fun to work. I think there are team experiences.

还有几个问题吗？也许后面有人？最后面有一个人。谢谢，Ivy。你谈了很多关于传统定义的五感的研究，似乎你不得不关注累积效应，也就是多感官体验，也许是从整体上看。你稍微谈到了联觉。我有点好奇，你对此还有什么想说的吗？或者关于更神秘的感官，比如本体感觉或前庭觉。

Is there a couple more questions? Maybe someone further back? There's someone way, way in the back. Thanks, Ivy. So you talked a lot about your research into the five senses that are traditionally defined, and it seems like you kind of had to focus on the cumulative effect, kind of the multi-sensory experience, maybe looking at it holistically. You talked a little bit about synesthesia. I'm kind of interested in if you have anything else to say about things like that, or slightly more mysterious senses, proprioceptive or vestibular.

是的，首先，他们发现我们有大约 34,000 种情绪，实际上有 52 种感官，所以五感只是开始。但也就这么多。在写书的过程中，我们发现在即兴表演方面有一些迷人的东西。即兴演奏音乐会点亮大脑的多个区域，而照着乐谱演奏和排练只点亮大脑的一小部分。然后诗歌和音乐点亮的是同一个区域，这很合理，因为都是节奏。所以在你说的那个方向上，我没有更多信息了。我想想书里还有没有别的。没有了，它确实谈到了我们如何通过感官接收信息，以及这些信息如何在身体中代谢，但仅此而已，没有更多你提到的那个方向的内容。

Yeah, um, first of all, they're finding out that we have like 34,000 emotions and actually 52 senses, so the five senses is just the beginning. Um, but there's only so much. Through the book, we found some fascinating things in terms of improv. Playing music improv lights up multi-sections of the brain, whereas playing reading music and just rehearsing lights up only a small piece of the brain. And then poetry and music lights up in the same place, which makes sense because it's rhythm. So I don't have any more information along the lines that you're talking about. Um, I'm trying to think if there's anything else in the book. No, it really speaks about how we take in information through our senses and how it metabolizes through our body, but nothing more in the vein that you're talking about.

我们再来一个问题，然后有人来接我。就在这里。嗨。你谈了很多关于创造条件来帮助你达到最具创造力的状态，你也谈到了为你的团队这样做。我很好奇，你有没有什么建议，可以在你自己的私人实践和团体空间中为自己创造这些条件？

We should take one more, and then I have someone picking me up. So right here. Hi. Um, you spoke a lot about creating conditions that may help you become your most creative, and you talk about doing that for your team. I'm kind of curious if you have any suggestions for creating those conditions for yourself in your private practice and in group spaces.

嗯，我学到这个很有意思。当我第一次进入企业界时，我不知道是什么时候，70 年代，70 年代末。CEO 们在年度报告里说：创新、创造力，你知道，会有起伏。那是他们的说法。我走进去，看到人们坐在灰色的格子里，我就想，“什么？这不是……”你知道，我很大胆，因为我从来不想待在企业界。我想这就是为什么我对它没有依恋。所以我更依恋自己的感受体验，那就是当我最有创造力的时候，我并不在这个环境里。所以我认为信任和自由是创造力发生的条件。在一些公司里，人们整天处于大脑的黄色区域，也就是战斗或逃跑状态。你知道，有绿色、红色、黄色。红色是创伤状态，黄色是战斗或逃跑，绿色是放松和自由。当我想到我什么时候最有创造力，比如我在 W Awards 做那些设计的时候，那是在纯粹自由和探索玩耍的条件下。所以，你知道，我试着，而且这确实始于信任。那么我们如何创造条件，让其中能有一点自由、信任和玩乐呢？所以即使在我们的产品开发过程中，一开始也有一个叫做“沙盒时间”的东西，这真的又是无需立即聚焦，因为相信我，我们很擅长遵守时间表，有各种限制。因为我实际上喜欢限制，因为我认为在限制内你更能发挥创造力。如果不给你限制，你可以去的地方太多，会让你发疯。所以我确实喜欢限制。但我认为在你开始之前，如果没有足够的时间进行无约束的玩耍，你就不会有创造力。所以要在你必须开始变得实际之前，努力创造那段沙盒时间，几乎是在没有结果压力的情况下。所以我会说，试着给自己那样的自由，即使你有任务，比如给自己一定的时间去玩耍，而不用感受到结果的压力。

Well, I learned it's funny. When I first got into the corporate world, I don't know what it was, the 70s, late 70s. CEOs on their annual reports: innovation, creativity, you know, goes through ups and downs. That was their word. And I walked in and they had people sitting in gray boxes, and I'm like, 'What? This is not...' You know, I was very bold because I never wanted to be in the corporate world. I think that's why I didn't have an attachment to it. So I was more attached to my own felt experience, which is like when I was most creative, I wasn't in this environment. And so I think trust and freedom is the condition under which creativity happens. And in some companies, people walk around in the yellow zone of your brain, which is fight or flight all the time. You know, there's green, red, yellow. Red is when you're in trauma, yellow is fight or flight, and green is when you're relaxed in freedom. And when I thought of when was I most creative, when I was doing those designs at W Awards, etc., it was the conditions of pure freedom and exploration to play. And so, you know, I try and, and it really started with trust. So how do we create the conditions under which there could be a little bit of freedom, trust, and playfulness? So even in our product development process, there's something in the beginning called sandbox time, which is really again without yet having to hone in, because we're very good at, believe me, there are schedules to adhere to, there's constraints. Because I think actually I like constraints, because I think you can be more creative within constraints. If you're not given constraints, there's so many places you can go, it gets you crazy. So I actually like the constraints. But I think before you start with that, if there isn't enough time to play unconstrained, you're not going to be creative. So trying to create that sandbox time before you have to start getting practical, almost where you don't have that outcome. So I'd say try and give yourself that freedom to do that, even if you have an assignment, like give yourself an X amount of time to just play without feeling the pressure of the result yet.

哇，这对我们在座的所有教师来说也是很好的建议。他们会跑回去改教学大纲了。我只想说非常感谢。我深受启发，真是太棒了……是的，我可以待到差一刻钟，所以如果你有书，或者想买书，可以在外面进行。我们会排一小队，我们有一张小纸片，所以如果你能在纸片上写下你希望 Ivy 在书上写什么，这样她就能正确拼写你的名字等等。谢谢大家。

Wow, that's great advice for all of our faculty in the room too. Going to run away and change their syllabi. Well, I just want to say thank you so much. I'm so inspired, such a wonderful... Yeah, I can stay till a quarter of, so if you have a book or you want to buy a book, you can do that outside. We're going to have a little line, and we have a little sheet of paper, so if you could write on the sheet of paper what you would like Ivy to write in the book, that way she can spell your name correctly and all those good things. Thank you all.