电子游戏提升手术技能：研究显示错误减少 32%

如果你想看看未来的图景，前 20 名甚至前 100 名完全被中国主导。是中国，外加一点韩国和台湾。你在世界前 20 吗？DIA 前 20？

If you want to see a vision of the future, the top 20 and even the top 100 is totally dominated by China. It's China and a little bit of Korea and Taiwan. Are you in the top 20 in the world? Top 20 in DIA?

是的，是的。你想告诉大家你的账号吗？不，不，别告诉他们。不值得。不过他们确实在名单上用了我的真名。哦，真的吗？有意思。但确实，前 20 里只有两个美国人，其余几乎都来自亚洲。

Yeah, yeah. Do you want to tell everybody your handle? No, no, don't tell them. It's not worth it. Well, they actually listed me with my actual name in the list. Oh, did they really? Interesting. But yeah, there's only two Americans in the top 20. The rest, almost everyone, is from Asia.

我们之前聊到一个我认为非常重要的话题。人们总认为电子游戏是 frivolous 的，但你说的是，它太难了，迫使你只能想着它，从而缓解压力，把世界其他部分隔绝在外。

We were talking about something I think is really important. People always think video games are frivolous, but what you were saying is that it's so difficult it requires you to only think about that, and it can relieve stress, take out the rest of the world because it's so hard.

是的，你只能想着它。我的意思是，如果我玩最高难度的电子游戏，我就必须全神贯注，这反而有镇静效果。它会让人冷静下来。而且我觉得很多人，如果你练武术或打台球，任何迫使你全神贯注的事情，其实都有镇静效果。我发现它有某种精神恢复作用。柔术就是这样，射箭也是。当你拉弓时，你只能想着它，这能清理思绪。

Yeah, you can only think about that. I mean, if I play a video game on Extreme difficulty, then I have to concentrate fully on the game, and it has a calming effect. It sort of chills down. And I think many people, if you play martial arts or pool, something that forces you to concentrate fully, actually has a calming effect. I find it has a kind of mental restoring effect. Jiu-Jitsu is like that, archery is like that as well. When you're shooting a bow, you have to think only of it, and it cleans the mind.

我读过一项关于外科医生的研究，发现经常玩电子游戏的外科医生犯的错误更少。这说得通，因为电子游戏需要手部灵活性。你看：比不玩游戏的同事少 32% 的错误，快 24%，整体表现好 26%。

I was reading this study about surgeons where they found that surgeons who regularly play video games make fewer errors. It makes sense because video games require manual dexterity. Look at this: 32% fewer errors, 24% faster, and scored 26% better overall than their non-player colleagues.

哦，我完全相信。这太不可思议了。医学院应该要求玩电子游戏。如果有人是顶级玩家，又说自己是外科医生，我会觉得加分，加两分。顶级玩家肯定。但这甚至不是顶级，只是玩的人。你的手部灵活性必须极高。你看着屏幕上的东西，做出反应，只有大约 10 毫秒的反应时间。所以如果有人反应速度和手部灵活性惊人，他们显然会成为好外科医生。想象一下，如果有一门课程能让你好 26%，每个人都会去上。为什么你想要一个准备不足的外科医生？你会说，‘嘿 Bob，你上过这门课吗？没有？你不知道这门课能让你好 26% 吗？’当然，你必须上。如果你想当外科医生，每个人都应该玩电子游戏。嗯，我认为这会是一个很好的测试。如果有人玩不好电子游戏，那意味着……因为你必须同时移动双手，对屏幕上的东西快速反应。如果你的按键或鼠标点击错了，你就输了。所以如果某人在电子游戏中排名很高，我会说他们的手部灵活性一定非常好。

Oh, I believe that for sure. That's incredible. You should be required in medical school to play video games. If somebody is a top-ranked video game player and they say they're a surgeon, I'd be like plus one, plus two. Top-ranked for sure. But this isn't even top-ranked, this is just people who play. Your manual dexterity has to be extremely high. You're looking at things on the screen, reacting, and you have like 10 milliseconds to react. So if somebody has incredible reaction times and manual dexterity, they're obviously going to be a good surgeon. Imagine if there was a course that would make you 26% better. Everyone would have to take that course. Why would you want a surgeon that's less prepared? You'd say, 'Hey Bob, did you take this course? You didn't? Don't you understand this course makes you 26% better?' Sure, you would have to take it. Everyone should have to play video games if you want to be a surgeon. Well, I think it would be a very good test. If somebody can't play video games well, that means... because you have to move both hands simultaneously, react very fast to things on the screen. And if your keystrokes or mouse clicks are wrong, you lose the game. So if somebody has a good rank in video games, I would say their manual dexterity must be extremely good.

运动技能必须出色。想想《星际争霸》或《雷神之锤》，任何很多人玩并力争上游的游戏，你必须作为人类出类拔萃。你身上必须有某种非凡之处。

Motor skills have to be excellent. If you think about Starcraft or Quake, any game where a lot of people are playing to rise to the top, you have to be exceptional as a human being. There has to be something exceptional about you.

是的。实际上，很久以前玩《雷神之锤》时，我是世界上最好的玩家之一。我知道我们聊过这个。我爱《雷神之锤》。大学最后一个学期，我花在《雷神之锤》上的时间可能比所有课程都多。

Yeah. Actually, Quake way back in the day, I was one of the world's best Quake players. I know we talked about this. I loved Quake. My final semester in college, I probably put more time into Quake than all my college classes.

我在《新闻广播》工作时，所有编剧都是超级极客。他们在演播室搭了局域网，一起玩《雷神之锤》。我从来没玩过电子游戏，但会去和他们混在一起。我们变得傻乎乎的，开始互相玩《雷神之锤》。我上瘾了，重度上瘾。我在家里装了 T1 线路。我彻底沉迷了。你会检查多少毫秒的延迟。我完全上瘾了。我自己组装电脑，去 Fry's 硬件店买主板，把所有东西拼起来。但这太耗时间了。我是个容易沉迷的人。我不能碰高尔夫，太慢了。我知道很多人觉得高尔夫不错，如果你把它看作和朋友户外散步，偶尔击球，那很酷。击球时确实需要专注，但对我来说太慢了。没有什么比得上电子游戏的反馈量和感官过载。你有一个大尺寸高分辨率屏幕，一台快速电脑，耳机里传来四面八方的声音，火箭从身边飞过。没有别的能比。

When I was on NewsRadio, all the writers were super nerds. They had a LAN set up at the studio where they all played Quake. I had never played video games, and I would go in to hang out with them. We'd get silly and start playing Quake against each other. I got addicted hardcore. I got a T1 line installed in my house. I went hardcore. You're checking how many milliseconds of latency. I was fully addicted. I was making my own computers, going to Fry's Hardware, buying motherboards, putting everything together. But it was too much of a time suck. I'm an obsessive person. I can't get involved in golf. It's too slow. I know a lot of people find golf good, and if you think of it as walking outdoors with friends and occasionally hitting a ball, that's cool. It does require concentration when hitting the ball, but it's too slow for me. Nothing compares to video games in terms of the amount of feedback, the sensory overload. You have a large high-resolution screen, a fast computer, headphones with sounds from all directions, rockets flying by. There's nothing like that.

但我认为高尔夫仍然……Jamie 会告诉你，他是个高尔夫狂。它超级上瘾，每天要花八个小时。一旦你迷上高尔夫，我想任何运动都会变得超级上瘾。但对我来说，电子游戏的强度难以超越。人们 dismiss 它，因为他们认为这只是浪费时间，但我们展示了现实世界的好处。如果你想当无人机操作员，这是唯一的选择。擅长电子游戏很有帮助。

But I think golf still is... Jamie will tell you, he's a Golf Nut. It's super addictive and takes like eight hours a day. Once you get into golf, I guess any sport gets super addictive. But for me, the intensity of video games is hard to beat. And people dismiss it because they think it's just a waste of time, but we're showing real-world benefits. If you want to be a drone operator, it's the only game in town. Being really good at video games helps.

是的，当然。事实上，如果我玩一个很难的电子游戏，我能判断自己的 mental acuity。如果我想在《暗黑破坏神》或任何第一人称射击游戏中取得极好的通关时间，我能感觉到自己累了，或者大脑运转不如平时。这就像一种 mental……

Yeah, for sure. In fact, I can tell what my mental acuity is if I play a very hard video game. If I'm trying to get an extremely good clear time in Diablo or something, or any first-person shooter, I can tell that I'm tired or my brain's not working as well as it should. It's like a mental...

校准能立刻告诉你——你的精神状态怎么样。如果你想打得特别好，深夜玩又累，就会打得很烂。你会觉得大脑状态不错，但其实不是，因为一打游戏就发现自己很菜。所以你在给它施压，真正在压力测试它。有时候我觉得自己状态挺好，但一打游戏就发现不对，可能比正常水平低了 10%。

Calibration you can tell immediately like what is what, how good is your mental state. If you're trying to play really well, if you play late at night and you're tired, you would just play badly. You can say okay, you may think that your brain is working well but it isn't because you play the video game and you're like, you suck. So you're putting it under stress, you're really stress testing it. Sometimes like oh I think I'm fine, but then you play the game like okay I'm not, I might be 10% below what I should be.

我健身时就是这种感觉。我就是这么发现自己得了新冠的。我知道家里人都得了，自己一直想躲开，所以去健身。感觉有点不对劲，平时觉得挺好，但一运动就觉得有问题，于是赶紧停下来休息。

That's how I feel about workouts for sure. That's how I knew I had COVID. I knew everyone in my family had COVID and I was trying not to get it, so I was working out. I was like something's up, I felt fine normally, but then during exercise I was like okay I can tell there's something wrong here, so let's back off, relax.

那些不给大脑做压力测试的人，总以为自己状态一直在线。有时候我走进来，连句子都说不完整，不知道怎么回事。就是不对劲。可能是睡眠不好，或者太忙了，话就是说不出来。我明明会说话，还是专业讲话的，可就是说不出来。睡眠太重要了，太关键了。所以我想知道自己睡得好不好，就打五分钟游戏。一打就知道没睡好。有时候白天大脑会恢复一些，醒来一两个小时之后会好一点，因为大脑确实能从糟糕的睡眠中稍微恢复过来。

People who don't stress test their mind think they're operating on the same level all the time. Sometimes I come in here and I can't form a sentence, and I don't know what it is. It's like what is going on? Sleep wasn't that good or something like that. I'm too busy and the words aren't coming out. I know how to talk, I talk professionally, and I can't talk. Sleep is massive, huge. So if I want to tell if I got a good night's sleep or not, I just play a video game for five minutes. I'm like okay my sleep wasn't that good. Sometimes your brain will recover through the day, an hour or two after waking up it's better, because your brain does kind of recover from a bad night's sleep a little bit.

肌酸好像确实有帮助。肌酸其实是一种益智药，信不信由你。它有很多很神奇的好处。有副作用吗？

Creatine apparently does help. Creatine is actually a nootropic, believe it or not. There are a lot of benefits of creatine that are really weird. Are there any downsides?

没有，它是食物中的天然成分。尤其对女性，特别是绝经后女性，非常有益。有很多认知方面的好处。最近发现的一大好处是睡眠剥夺时的表现。补充肌酸后，睡眠剥夺时的脑力表现会有明显提升。

No, it's natural part of food. Especially for women, apparently especially postmenopausal women, it's very beneficial. There are a lot of cognitive benefits. One of the big ones they found recently is performance when sleep deprived. Mental performance when sleep deprived increases pretty measurably when you supplement with creatine.

肌酸是牛排里天然存在的吗？

Is creatine naturally occurring in steak?

对，肉里天然就有。我觉得主要是动物性的。我早餐改吃牛排和鸡蛋，发现就像吃了能量包一样。

Yeah, it's naturally occurring in meat. I think it's primarily an animal-based thing. I switched to steak and eggs for breakfast and I found that's like a power-up.

我们都被碳水化合物淹没了。碳水化合物会让你大起大落，升上去又跌下来。如果你主要吃高蛋白高脂肪的饮食，血糖就会很平稳。身体基本上靠生酮供能。

We're all overrun with carbohydrates. Carbohydrates make this big crash, the rise and the crash. You stay flat if you eat a primarily high protein, high fat diet. Your body runs off ketosis essentially.

我就吃牛排和鸡蛋，不吃面包之类的，感觉特别好，就像能量包。我觉得人们之所以否定全肉饮食，是因为我们脑子里有很多宣传，说畜牧业是全球变暖的头号元凶。这是胡说，不是真的。根本没关系。不仅没关系，真正的问题是工厂化养殖。再生农业如果不是碳汇，至少也是碳中和。动物对全球变暖不会有任何影响，一点都没有，零。

I just have steak and eggs, no bread or anything, and it's great actually. It's a power-up. I'd say people dismiss this whole carnivore diet thing because in our heads there's a lot of propaganda that animal agriculture is the number one contributor to global warming. This rubbish, not true. It does not matter. Not only is it not, but the real problem is factory farming. Regenerative farming is carbon neutral if not sequesters carbon. The animals are not going to make any difference to global warming, like none, zero, nothing.

你觉得这只是因为那些在植物肉和绿色能源上有既得利益的人在宣传吗？

Do you think that's just propaganda because of people that have a vested interest in plant-based meat products and green energy?

我觉得这是部分原因。总会有人劝你少吃肉。有些人可能有经济利益，有些人只是出于意识形态原因吃素或纯素。但就算人们少吃牛排，对全球变暖或大气二氧化碳浓度也不会有任何影响。无关紧要，我想说清楚这一点。不会有影响，你甚至都测不出来。就是这么无关紧要。

I think it's part of it. You're generally going to get people pushing to avoid meat. Some people maybe have a financial interest, maybe they're just vegetarians or vegans for ideological reasons. But it's not going to make any difference to global warming or the CO2 concentration in the atmosphere really, if people eat fewer steaks. It doesn't matter, it's irrelevant. I want to be super clear about that. It will not matter. You will not even be able to measure it. That's how irrelevant it is.

这都测不出来，是不是很好笑？异端言论，现在这简直是疯话。好像你必须说少吃肉、肉不好。想吃多少就吃多少，根本不会有影响。跟全世界说去。如果有人非说会有影响，我就问你怎么测？如果根本测不出来，那不就是……

Isn't it funny that that's unmeasurable? Heretic speaking, that's crazy talk nowadays. It's like you have to say that we have to eat less meat, that meat is bad. Eat as much as you want, it's not going to make a difference. Sing it to the world. If somebody says it does make a difference, I'm like how will you measure it? If you can't even measure it, then it's...

真的，你根本测不出来。

Literally you won't be able to measure it.

今天外面发生了太多事，首先四面八方。非常感谢你买下 Twitter，真的非常感谢。我觉得你改变了历史进程，一点不夸张。我真的这么认为。你真的让历史走到了一个岔路口。我们原本正走向一条前所未有的审查和叙事控制之路。别说什么他们当年控制报纸和媒体的时候了。他们在社交媒体上压制信息，再加上政府联手，比如笔记本故事那件事，51 名前情报人员说这是俄罗斯的虚假信息，要求下线，Twitter 就照做了。如果你没买下它，我们根本不会知道这些。我们完全不知道。

There's so much out today, first of all all directions. Thank you so much for buying Twitter. Thank you so much. I'm not exaggerating when I think you changed the course of history. I really do. I really think you made a fork in the road. We were headed down a path of censorship and of control of narratives that is unprecedented. Forget about what they were able to do back when they had newspapers and the media under control. What they were doing with social media by suppressing information, and when you had a combined government effort like with what they were doing with the laptop story, you have 51 former intelligence agents saying that this is Russian disinformation, take it off offline, and Twitter complied. If you didn't buy that, we wouldn't have known that. We had no idea.

我买它的原因是我很敏感。因为收购前我是 Twitter 上互动最多的用户。收购前，我的互动次数比奥巴马等粉丝更多的账号还要多，我是系统里互动最多的账号。所以如果系统有变化，我能立刻察觉。我就觉得有点不对劲。越来越不安。显然，当他们把在任总统禁言，把特朗普禁言，那简直疯了。他发的东西，他发的是好东西。他说我们不要暴乱，不要破坏财产，请保持冷静。他发的就是这些。然后你问这有什么问题？有些人说那是某种狗哨，他意思相反。我说好吧，那我们把特朗普的账号给你，你来发你觉得他该发的东西，因为他什么都不能发了。

The reason I bought it was because I'm pretty attuned. Since I was the most interacted with user on Twitter before the acquisition. Before the acquisition, I had more interactions than some accounts like Obama and whatever had higher follower counts, but I had the most number of interactions of any account in the system. So I was very attuned to if they changed the system, I could tell immediately. I'm like something weird is going on here. I just got increasingly uneasy. Obviously when they deplatformed the sitting president, deplatformed Trump, that was just insane. The things he was posting, he was posting good things. He was saying hey we don't riot, don't destroy property, please stay calm. That's the kind of stuff he was posting. And you're like what's wrong with that? Then some people say oh that's like some sort of dog whistle, he means the opposite. I'm like okay, so we'll give you Trump's account now, you post what you think he should post, because he can post nothing.

可以要求人们冷静下来，就像那太疯狂了，根本说不通。

Can ask people to calm down like what it was insane like it didn't make any sense.

嗯，这完全是地方性的。你说这是用狗哨告诉他的追随者不要暴力，那太疯狂了。疯狂。太疯狂了。你不觉得他们会听他的吗？是啊，这不就是重点吗？他们听了他的话，首先制造了暴力。那是你的想法。你是在指控他，对吧？而且还有一个事实，我们知道人群中有特工，是煽动者，在鼓励人们做违法的事。我们确凿地知道这一点。这并非总是那种 Alex Jones 式的 10 美元帽子阴谋论，因为 Alex 在世界贸易组织抗议活动时就提出过这个，我相信是 90 年代在西雅图。他们派了煽动者，开始打砸东西、放火。突然间，和平抗议不再和平了。他们出动警察，关闭了一切。他们设置了一个禁止抗议的区域，你甚至不能戴一个带有 WTO 标志并画着红线的徽章。他们不让你进去上班，所以你无法抗议，无法行使你的第一修正案权利。你甚至不能进行和平抗议，不能在车上贴贴纸。你不能那样做。这太疯狂了。确实疯狂。

Well, it's completely a local when you say it's dog whistling to tell his followers to not be violent. That's crazy. Crazy. That's crazy. Don't you think they'll listen to him? Yeah, isn't that the whole point? They listened to him and created violence in the first place. That's what you think. That's what you're accusing him of, right? And then there's the fact that we know that there were agents in the crowd that were agent provocateurs that were encouraging people to do illegal. We know that for a fact. This is not that was always the big Alex Jones type 10 hat conspiracy theory, because Alex proposed that back at the World Trade Organization protests, I believe we in Seattle in the 90s, and they sent in agent provocateurs, started smashing things, lighting things on fire. Now all of a sudden a peaceful protest is no longer peaceful. They move in the cops, they shut everything down. They had it set up where it was a no protest zone where you couldn't even have a pin that had the WTO with a red line through it. They wouldn't let you go in through to go to work, so you couldn't protest, you couldn't exercise your First Amendment rights. You couldn't even have a peaceful protest, a sticker on your car. You couldn't have that. It's crazy. It is crazy.

所以不，我认为我们正处在一个命运的十字路口，你知道，我收购 Twitter 的原因就是，伙计，如果我不这么做，我觉得我们就完蛋了。嗯，你没有做，没有其他人会做，因为这不是一笔财务上的赢家。这有点疯狂。这是一个疯狂的行动。我的意思是，这东西定价过高，而且你知道，长期来看我认为我们最终可以为投资者带来胜利，但天哪，这是一种艰难的谋生方式。

So no, I think we're very much at a fork in the road in destiny, and you know, so I mean the reason I did the Twitter acquisition was like, man, if I don't do this, I think we're screwed. Well, you didn't do it, no one else was going to do it because it wasn't a financial winner. It was kind of a crazy move. It's a crazy move. I mean, the thing was way overpriced, and you know, long term I think we can ultimately make it a win for investors, but boy, this is a hard way to make a living.

嗯，还有协同努力来压制它。广告商方面也有协同努力。

Well, there's also a concerted effort to suppress it. There's a concerted effort with the advertisers.

嗯，我们过去和现在都面临一场大规模的广告商抵制，由一群左翼非政府组织策划，你知道，而且你总是想——我本该带上我的帽子，我有一顶帽子写着“让所有虚构再次伟大”。我见过那顶帽子。是的，我本该带上我的“让石油虚构”帽子。但是，嗯，我的意思是这完全疯了。所以如果你不做，没人会做。而且我一直从白痴那里听到一个可笑的说法：“埃隆是个糟糕的商人，Twitter 的价值比他购买时低了 400%。”不，它一开始就不值那个价。它不值 440 亿美元，你们这些白痴。错了。而且你还没有考虑到广告商抵制。正是这样。所以有一些组织，你可以看出来，它们有奥威尔式的名字，比如“打击数字仇恨中心”，那完全是一个诈骗组织，因为它们就像《1984》里的真理部。你知道，它们是一个审查组织。它们推动广告商抵制。所以我们仍然有一些抵制正在开始解除，我认为如果特朗普赢了，我们会看到大部分抵制解除。但如果卡玛拉赢了，我们会看到抵制变得更强烈，它们会发疯——它们会关闭。卡玛拉政权不可能允许 X 存在。

Well, we had and still have a massive advertiser boycott that was organized by a bunch of left-wing NGOs, like you know, and you always want—and I should have brought my hat, I have a hat 'Make All Fiction Again.' I've seen that hat. Yeah, I should have brought my 'Make Oil Fiction' hat. But yeah, I mean it's just totally nuts. So if you didn't do it, no one would have. And here's the hilarious narrative that I keep hearing from idiots: 'Elon's a bad businessman, Twitter is worth 400% less than when he bought it.' No, it wasn't worth that in the first place. It wasn't worth $44 billion, you morons. Wrong. And also you're not taking into account the advertiser boycott. Exactly. So there are these organizations, like you can tell, they have an Orwellian name, like the Center for Countering Digital Hate, which is a total scam organization, because they're like the Ministry of Truth type of thing in 1984. You know, they're a censorship organization. And they pushed the advertisers to boycott. So we still have like some of the boycott is starting to lift, and I think if Trump wins, we'll see probably most of the boycott lift. But if Kamala wins, we'll see that boycott get stronger and they'll freak—they'll shut down. There's no way that the sort of Kamala regime would allow X to exist.

你真的认为他们能关闭它吗？有途径吗？

You really think that they'll be able to shut it down though? Is there a pathway to that?

是的。他们会怎么做？嗯，我的意思是他们可以派司法部来找你，你知道，然后说，他们一直在搞什么仇恨言论、虚假信息之类的。但正是他们在传播虚假信息。但这并不能阻止他们提起大规模诉讼并利用司法部。我的意思是，司法部一直在攻击 SpaceX，例如，因为不雇佣寻求庇护者，尽管 SpaceX 雇佣任何不是美国永久居民的人是合法的。所以我们进退两难。这是一个司法部能做什么的例子。所以对于 SpaceX 来说，雇佣不是美国公民的人是非法的，因为 SpaceX 被认为是先进武器技术。所以它受《国际武器贸易条例》管辖，因为我们制造可以用来对付美国的火箭技术。所以如果朝鲜或伊朗获得了 SpaceX 的火箭技术，他们可以用它向美国发射核弹。那会很糟糕。是的，那会非常糟糕。所以由于我们在 SpaceX 处于最极端的武器技术类别，根据美国 ITAR 法律，我们雇佣任何不是永久居民的人是非法的，因为假设是如果他们不是永久居民，他们会返回祖国并带走火箭技术。所以我们雇佣任何没有——他们可以持有绿卡或是公民，他们只需要是美国永久居民。然后还有另一条法律规定，如果你歧视寻求庇护者，那也是违法的。所以他们只是——司法部每年只能提起少量的大诉讼。他们对 SpaceX 提起了一项大诉讼，声称 SpaceX 歧视了寻求庇护者。我们想说，但雇佣任何不是永久居民的人是非法的。所以我们处于这种——这就是我的意思，奥威尔式的情况变得疯狂。你进退两难。所以你被定罪了。

Yes. What would they do? Well, I mean they can just sic the DOJ on you, you know, and say like, they've had this whole thing about hate speech, misinformation, whatever. Except they're the ones pushing the misinformation. But that doesn't stop them from filing massive lawsuits and using the DOJ. I mean, the DOJ has been attacking SpaceX, for example, for not hiring asylum seekers, even though it is legal for SpaceX to hire anyone who is not a permanent resident of the US. So we're damned if we do and damned if we don't. There's an example of what DOJ can do. So it's illegal to hire someone who's not an American citizen for what SpaceX is considered an advanced weapons technology. So it's covered by International Traffic in Arms Regulations because we make rocket technology that can be used against the United States. So like if North Korea or Iran got SpaceX rocket technology, they could use that to launch nukes at America. That would be bad. Yeah, that'd be really bad. So since we are in the most extreme category of weapons technology at SpaceX, under US ITAR law, it is illegal for us to hire anyone who's not a permanent resident, because the presumption is that if they're not a permanent resident, they're going to return to their home country and take the rocket technology with them. So it's illegal for us to hire anyone who either has not—they can have a green card or be a citizen, they just have to be a permanent resident of the United States. Then there's another law that says if you discriminate against asylum seekers, that's also breaking the law. So they just—the DOJ can only do a small number of big lawsuits every year. They launched a giant lawsuit against SpaceX saying that SpaceX discriminated against asylum seekers. And we're like, but it's illegal for us to hire anyone who's not a permanent resident. So we're in this—this is what I mean, it's like the Orwellian situation is getting insane. You're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't. So you're damned.

你能想象历史回顾时，伙计，当你看到机械臂抓住火箭，你意识到这是航空航天史上最伟大的成就之一。这是最疯狂的成就之一。当你看到那东西飞来，看到所有人欢呼，它完美地接住，就像天哪——想象一下历史将如何看待司法部追查那家公司。是啊，这有多疯狂。一场拥有律师大军的大诉讼。这不是什么小事。但逻辑上甚至说不通。如果那是非法的，它怎么能被带上法庭？

Can you imagine history looking back, man, at when you watch the robot arms catch the rocket and you realize this is like one of the greatest accomplishments in the history of aerospace. It is one of the wildest accomplishments. When you watch that thing come and you see all the people cheering and it catches it perfectly, like holy—imagine how history is going to look back at the DOJ going after that company. Yeah, how insane it is. A big lawsuit with an army of lawyers. This was not like some minor thing. But it doesn't even make any sense logically. Like how can it even get brought to court if it's illegal?

正是这样。所以这就是我的意思。基本上如果政府想追查你，他们就会找个理由。就像贝利亚那句名言，你知道，斯大林的首席刽子手，斯大林秘密警察的头目。他是个首席刽子手，真正邪恶的人。这个贝利亚。他的一句名言是：“给我一个人，我就给你一个罪行。”对吧？他们只是决定你是目标，然后……

Exactly. So that's what I mean. Like basically if the government wants to go after you, they'll just find a reason. It's like that famous quote from Beria, you know, like Stalin's chief torturer, the head of Stalin's secret police. He's a chief torturer, truly evil human being. This guy Beria. One of his famous quotes was, 'Show me the man and I'll show you the crime.' Right? They just decide that you're the target and then...

他们事后才搞清楚罪行，这就是问题所在。他们认定 SpaceX 是目标，但事后才弄清楚罪行。这太疯狂了，因为他们说的正是特朗普上台后会做的事。他们正在做所有他们指控特朗普做的事，而且公开地、明目张胆地做。

They figure out the crime afterwards, that's the issue. They decided SpaceX was a target, they just figured out the crime afterwards. Which is so crazy because that's exactly what they're saying Trump is going to do if he gets into office. They're doing all the things that they accuse Trump of doing, yeah, openly, openly.

是啊，民主党反复推动的骗局数量之多。你看，我理解政客们会夸大其词、口误、偶尔说些不实之词，政治就是这样。但当你故意、反复地推动骗局时，你就会想，等等，老兄，这太过分了。而你们应该是好人，你们自称是好人。

Yeah, I mean the sheer number of hoaxes that the Democratic party is pushing over and over again. And it's like, look, I understand politicians are going to exaggerate, they're going to misspeak, and they'll tell occasional untruths, whatever, that's how it is in politics. But when you have deliberate, repeated pushing of hoaxes, you're like, wait a second, come on man, this is too far. And you're supposed to be the good guys, you claim to be the good guys.

没错，你们应该是进步派。是的，民主党人就像，哦我们是好人，我们是诚实的人。不，不，等等，如果你故意推动已被彻底揭穿的骗局，你就不能自称好人，不能自称诚实的人。是啊，就连 Snopes 这种自由派网站都说那是假的。

Exactly, you're supposed to be the progressives. Yes, the Dems are like, oh we're the good guys, we're the honest people. No, no, hang on, you can't claim to be the good guys, you can't claim to be the honest people if you're deliberately pushing hoaxes that have been debunked thoroughly. Yeah, like even Snopes, which is a liberal thing, says it's bogus.

是啊，比如“优秀的人”骗局。奥巴马刚刚在台上说了，就这么说了。我当时想，这什么鬼……他根本不在乎……他们就是赤裸裸地撒谎，赤裸裸地撒谎。

Yeah, like the fine people hoax. Obama just said that on stage, just said that. I was like, what the flying... he doesn't give a... they're just flat out lie, flat out lie.

还有另一个，卡玛拉的竞选团队利用特朗普关于保护女性免受非法移民侵害的言论。谢谢你，你记得那个。他说的是，女性们，不管你们喜不喜欢，我都要这么做。是的，当他说这话时，他们试图说他是在剥夺女性的选择权，不管女性喜不喜欢。但那根本不是他的意思，绝对不是。他实际上是在谈论保护她们免受从边境潜入的危险人物的侵害。是的，没错。

How about the other one where Kamala's campaign used what Trump was saying about protecting women from illegal immigrants? Thank you, you remember that. What he was saying is, the women, like it or not, I'm going to do it. Yeah, when he was saying that, they were trying to say that he was taking away women's right to choose, whether women like it or not. Like that's not what he was saying, absolutely. He was literally talking about protecting them from dangerous people that are sneaking in through the border. Yes, exactly.

他们会截取特朗普的话，甚至不是一个完整的句子，只是半句话，然后把它推到每一个广告、每一个演讲活动、每一个……然后新闻上反复播放。这就是疯狂之处，他们会在这些新闻节目上谈论它，所谓的新闻节目。

They'll take like not even a full sentence, like a half a sentence from Trump, and then they'll push it on every ad, every speaking event, every... and it gets repeated on the news. This is what's crazy, they'll talk about it on these news shows, quote news shows.

是啊，没错。我是说，最近有一个事件，很多人联系我，他们说，哦特朗普说他要处决利兹·切尼。我说，这完全是……他根本不是那个意思。他说的只是，如果利兹·切尼真的要在前线作战，她应该三思而后行。没错，因为如果你不必冒死在战壕里的风险，发动战争很容易，当好战分子很容易。如果人们在华盛顿特区享用豪华晚餐，而人们在战壕里被屠杀，你感受不到痛苦，你不承担风险，死的是别人。这很残忍，缺乏同理心。而特朗普说的只是，利兹·切尼会不那么好战，因为她和她父亲一样是个大战贩子，如果她真的必须亲自上前线作战的话。与此同时，他们说他应该被枪毙，这完全是谎言。但周末有无数人打电话给我说，哦特朗普说他要让利兹·切尼面对行刑队。我说，这太离谱了，是个谎言。而传统媒体大肆传播这个谎言。

Yeah, exactly. I mean, a recent one that came up, which had a lot of people, because a lot of people reached out to me, was like, oh Trump says he wants to execute Liz Cheney. I'm like, that is utter... it's not what he said at all. He all said was, look, if Liz Cheney actually had to fight at the front lines, she should think twice about going to war. Exactly, like it's easy to go to war, it's easy to be a warmonger if you don't have to risk dying at the front lines. Like if people are having fancy dinners in Washington DC while people are being slaughtered in trenches, you're not feeling the pain, you're not taking the risk, it's someone else dying. That's cruel and lacking in empathy. And all Trump was saying was that Liz Cheney would be much less of a warmonger, because she's a huge warmonger just like her dad, if she actually had to go to the front lines and fight herself. Meanwhile, they're saying that he said she should be shot, which is a total lie. But I had like tons of people call me this weekend saying, oh Trump says he's going to put Liz Cheney in a firing squad. I'm like, that is an outrageous lie. And the legacy media ran with that lie big time.

是啊，太疯狂了。看着真是不可思议。如果没有 Twitter 或现在的 X，我想我们不会知道所有这些事情。我认为会非常困难。对你来说，我认为 YouTube 限制了流量，他们做了一些奇怪的事，他们不会说他们做了什么，但他们对我做的特朗普采访做了奇怪的事，你找不到它。这说不通，完全说不通。我是说，这是地球上最大的采访，而你找不到它。不仅如此，它没有上趋势。没有上趋势。你会想，这完全没有借口，老兄，没有借口。

Yeah, it's crazy. It's just wild to see. And if it wasn't for Twitter or X now, I don't think we would know about all this stuff. I think it would be very difficult. For you, I think YouTube throttled, they did something weird, they won't say what they did, but they did something weird with the Trump interview that I did, yeah, where you couldn't find it. It doesn't make sense, like made no sense. I mean, it's like the biggest interview on Earth, yeah, and you can't find it. Not only that, it wasn't trending. It wasn't trending. You're like, this just no excuse for that man, no excuse.

没有借口。它每小时有 100 万、140 万、150 万的观看量，却没有上趋势。而且你的频道是知名频道，不是昨天才开始的。这是一个高信任度的频道，你不是在推销骗人的加密货币什么的。所以，谢天谢地我们也把它放到了 X 上，因为仅凭你的账号和我的账号，就有大约 7000 万观看量。是啊，没错。

There's no excuse. It was getting a million views, 1.4 an hour, 1.5 an hour, yeah, and it wasn't trending. And it's like your channel is a known channel, it's not like it was started yesterday. It's like this is a high trust channel, you're not trying to sell scam crypto coins or something. So well, thank God we put it on X as well, because I think just with your account and my account alone, it's like 70 million views. Yeah, exactly.

是啊，嗯，就像因为你们，事情再也藏不住了。如果不是你，我想他们现在早就完全控制了社交媒体。疫情期间他们会封禁那么多账号，那么多持不同意见的科学家、医生、医师，那么多阴谋论者，那么多越界的人。他们会在所有地方都这么做。而且很可能已经……我认为即使在 Facebook 上，他们也在变得更宽容。你听到扎克伯格谈论采取更自由意志主义的立场，这完全是对 Twitter 移动水印方式的反应。没错。

Yeah, well, it's like you can't hide things anymore because of you. And if it wasn't for you, I think they would have had total control of social media by now. They would have banned so many accounts during the pandemic, so many dissenting scientists and doctors and physicians, so many conspiracy theorists, so many people that colored outside the lines. They would have done that everywhere. And it probably would have... I think even at what's going on at Facebook, they're being more lenient. You hear Zuckerberg talking about taking a more libertarian stance, that's entirely reaction to the way Twitter has kind of moved the watermark. Exactly.

所以一旦任何公司越界，愿意让真相在他们的平台上被辩论，就会迫使其他平台允许更多真相，不去审查，因为他们的审查变得非常明显。是的，嗯，你知道我发现最好的反驳方法，比如如果有人有骗局，就是直接去看原始材料。你知道，如果你认为有人觉得，哦特朗普说我们应该把利兹·切尼送上行刑队，我会说让我给你发一个 X 的链接，这样你可以看他的视频。这是最好的方法。不要相信我的观点，不要相信任何人的观点，去看原始材料。还有社区注释，是的。

So as soon as any company steps out of line and is willing to actually have the truth debated on their platform, it forces the other platforms to allow things to be more truthful, to not censor, because their censorship becomes glaringly obvious. Yes, um, and you know the best thing I found for as a rebuttal, like if somebody if there's a hoax, is just go to the source material. You know, if you think somebody thinks, oh you know Trump said that we should put Liz Cheney in a firing squad, I'm like let me send you a link to X so you can watch his video. That's the best way. Don't take my opinion for it, don't take anyone's opinion for it, go to the source material. And Community Notes, yes.

社区注释是最好的，它很棒，不可思议，因为每个人都会被检查，是的，包括我。而且社区注释的所有软件都是开源的，所有数据也是开源的，所以你可以独立重现任何一条注释。这太棒了，是的，这就是它在各方面完全透明的方式。你知道，有时有人问我，哦你能删除一条注释吗，主要是左派，但有时是右派。我说，我连自己账号上的注释都不删，什么都不删。而且顺便说一句，一切都是完全开放的，所以如果我那么做了，会立刻像拇指一样突出，不会很微妙。

And Community Notes is the best, it's awesome, it's incredible because everybody gets checked, yes, including me. And with Community Notes, all the software is open source and all the data is open source, so you can recreate any given note independently. That's amazing, yeah, that's how it's total absolute transparency in every way. You know, sometimes I get asked, oh can you remove a note, you know mostly by the left but sometimes by the right. I'm like, I don't even remove notes on my own account, nothing. And by the way, everything is totally open, so if I did that, it would stick out like a sore thumb immediately, like it's not going to be subtle.

对抗错误信息的最佳方式是什么？

Is the best counter to misinformation?

是的，绝对如此。让每个人都能看到它，然后说，好吧，这是实际的事实。没错。对抗错误信息的最佳方式就是提供更好的信息。不仅如此，还要让社区实时核查，这样就有数百万人可以仔细检查并辩论这是真的还是假的。而且，就像我说的，理解真相的最佳方式不是听信任何人的观点，而是查看原始材料。看看某人实际说了什么，实际做了什么，看看真实情况的视频，然后你才能真正知道什么是真实的。

Yes, absolutely. Let everybody look at it and say, okay, here's what the actual facts say. Yes, exactly. The counter to misinformation is better information. Not just that, but having it checked in real time by the community, so you have millions of people that can go over it and debate whether or not this is true or that's true. And, like I said, the best way to understand the truth of things is don't take anyone's opinion for it; look at the source material. Look at what someone actually said, look at what someone actually did, look at the real videos of the situation, and then you can actually know what's real.

就在今天，你来的路上，你给我发了这条短信，说他们想把你关进监狱，宾夕法尼亚州。告诉我发生了什么。

As of today, when you were literally on your way here, you sent me this text saying that they're trying to lock you up in jail, Pennsylvania. Tell me what is happening.

嗯，你知道，典型的索罗斯式地方检察官情况。我们在宾夕法尼亚州取得了很大进展。我在全州做了很多演讲，因为宾夕法尼亚州是这次选举的关键。谁赢得宾夕法尼亚州，谁就赢得大选。我在宾夕法尼亚州待了三年，我在费城上的大学。所以我对这个州并不陌生。我们组织了这个支持宪法的请愿，我认为这是一件好事，具体是要求人们——我们希望这能针对摇摆州的注册选民。基本上，我们想向政客们传递一个信息：人民关心宪法，因为宪法一直受到攻击。尤其是在民主党方面，他们一再声称第一修正案是一个障碍，因为他们说它助长了虚假信息和错误信息。我就想，嘿，第一修正案是有原因的。言论自由——开国元勋之所以把言论自由写进去，是因为他们来自那些如果你说出自己的想法就会被枪杀或监禁的国家。这就是第一修正案存在的原因。而第二修正案是为了阻止政府的暴政。第二修正案，即持有武器的权利，是为了保护言论自由。我特别和洛杉矶的人辩论过，因为他们想夺走所有人的枪。我说，你能保证我们永远不会在美国出现暴政政府吗？你能做出这个保证吗？他们说，嗯，没人能做出这个保证。我说，那我们就得保留枪支，因为那是阻止暴政的手段。人们听到这个会觉得疯狂，因为他们想到的是枪支暴力和枪支问题，但这就是我们生活的世界的现实：暴政是可能的，它在其他地方存在，而且正在英国慢慢抬头。我认为仅仅因为社交媒体帖子而被捕的人数已经多得离谱了，有数千人。在英国，有几千人因为社交媒体帖子被判刑，而这些帖子与实际的暴力行为没有明确联系，只是被说成鼓励暴力。那么，有没有人因为那个帖子真的做了什么？没有。然后英国监狱人满为患，所以他们实际上是在释放已定罪的恋童癖者，却把发 Facebook 帖子的人关进监狱。这是英国真实发生的事情。太疯狂了。这一切简直荒谬。

Well, you know, there's the classic sort of Soros DA situation. So we're making a lot of progress in Pennsylvania. I've given a whole bunch of talks throughout the state because Pennsylvania is the lynchpin in this election. Whoever wins Pennsylvania wins the election. I spent three years in Pennsylvania; I went to college in Philadelphia. So it's not like I'm a total stranger to the state. We organized this petition in support of the Constitution, which I think is a good thing, and specifically asking people to—we wanted this to be like registered voters in swing states. Basically, we want to send a message to the politicians to say that the people care about the Constitution because there have been all these attacks on the Constitution. Especially on the Democrat side, they've been repeatedly saying that the First Amendment is an obstacle because they claim it enables disinformation and misinformation. I'm like, yo, there's a reason for the First Amendment. Freedom of speech—the reason the founders of the country put freedom of speech there is because they came from countries where if you spoke your mind, you would get shot or imprisoned. That's why the First Amendment exists. And the Second Amendment is there to stop the tyranny of government. The Second Amendment, the right to bear arms, is there to protect freedom of speech. I've had these debates especially with people in LA because they want to take everyone's guns away. I'm like, can you guarantee me that we will never have a tyrannical government in the United States? Can you make that guarantee? They're like, well, nobody can make that guarantee. I'm like, then we need to keep our guns because that's what's going to stop it. That sounds crazy for people to hear because they think about gun violence and gun problems, but that's the reality of the world we live in: tyranny is possible, and it exists other places, and it's slowly rearing its head in the UK. I think the number of people that have been arrested for just social media posts is bananas. It's in the thousands. Several thousand people have been given prison sentences in the UK for social media posts where there was no explicit link to actual violence, but they just said it encouraged violence. Well, did anyone actually do anything as a result of that media post? Well, no. And then they have a prison overcrowding situation in the UK, so they are quite literally releasing convicted pedophiles and putting people in jail for Facebook posts. That's an actual thing happening in Britain. That is so wild. What's going on is insane.

让我觉得疯狂的是，这一切都是左派在鼓励。凯坦吉·布朗·杰克逊、约翰·克里——约翰·克里几周前在镜头前说，第一修正案是打击错误信息的障碍。这太疯狂了。当你有社区笔记这样的解决方案时，说出这种话简直太离谱了。社区笔记可以在一天或两天内澄清所有困惑。即使没有社区笔记，你也可以回复帖子，用证据证明帖子是错的。你甚至不需要社区笔记。我的意思是，社区笔记很有用，因为它会附在原帖上，但在回复中你可以说，为什么你错了，理由是什么，证据是什么。他们的论点是人们太不成熟了，不会去研究这些东西，会成为错误信息的受害者，所以他们读到错误的东西就会信以为真，然后人们会死，世界会毁灭，因为人们相信了错误信息。这是个愚蠢的论点，因为它等于说他们太笨了，分不清对错。如果你知道那是错误信息，为什么你认为你比所有读到它的人更聪明？没错。显然，X 系统上的任何人都知道，帖子发布后会有回复、有反驳，并且会立即得到纠正。但传统媒体的纠正在哪里？广播媒体经常说假话，但那是单向的；没有反驳，没有反击。有谁因为错误而道歉过吗？雷切尔·玛多有没有为告诉每个人如果你接种了新冠疫苗就永远不会得新冠、病毒在你这里就停止了而道歉？从来没有。没有人道过歉。当时那不是真的，当时没有证据支持，那是纯粹的宣传，她说了。通俄门骗局——三年来他们说他（特朗普）是普京的玩物，普京控制了他。斯蒂尔档案完全是 Perkins Coie 律所的一名律师捏造的，而该律所是由克林顿竞选团队付钱的。简直疯了。仍然有人认为通俄门骗局是真的。而且没有任何后果，没有人需要道歉。希拉里从未出来为此道歉，人们仍然听她的。整件事太疯狂了，而且都来自左派。作为一个从小就是左派的人，这完全说不通。

And what's insane to me is that it's all being encouraged by the left. Ketanji Brown Jackson, John Kerry—John Kerry was one of the people who said, on camera a few weeks ago, that the First Amendment is an obstacle to fighting misinformation. That's crazy. That's such a crazy thing to say when you have a solution in Community Notes. You have a solution in something like that that could clear everything up, any confusion within a day or two. And even without a Community Note, you can reply to a post with evidence that shows that the post is wrong. You don't even need Community Notes. I mean, Community Notes is helpful because it sticks to the original note, but in the replies you can say, here's why you're wrong, here are the reasons and here's the evidence. The argument is that people are too unsophisticated, that they're not going to research these things, they're going to be a victim of misinformation, so they're going to read something incorrect, they're going to run with it, people are going to die, we're going to ruin the world because people believed in misinformation. It's a stupid argument because it's an argument that they're too dumb to know what's right or wrong. If you know it's misinformation, why do you think that you're smarter than everybody who reads that? Exactly. And obviously anyone on the X system knows that things are posted and then there are replies and there are rebuttals and it's immediately corrected. But where are the corrections for the legacy media? When broadcast media say false things all the time, but it's a one-way street; there's no rebuttal, there's no counter. Who has apologized for being incorrect? Did Rachel Maddow ever apologize for telling everybody that if you get the COVID vaccine you're never going to get COVID, it won't, the virus stops with you? Never. No one ever. It was not true at the time, there was no evidence to support it at the time, it's pure propaganda, and she said it. The Russia gate hoax—for three years they said that he was Putin's toy and that Putin had him compromised. The Steele dossier was completely fabricated by a lawyer, Perkins Coie, who was paid by the Clinton campaign. Literally crazy. And still people think the Russia hoax is real. And there's no repercussions, no one had to apologize. Hillary could never come out and apologize for that, and people still listen to her. The whole thing is crazy, and it's all coming from the left. Growing up as a person who was on the left my whole life, it doesn't make any sense.

一样。我是说，直到大约三年前我还是左派。但这不再是左派了。我觉得我们显然想要自由。我们想要自由。

Same. I mean, I was on the left until like three years ago. It's not the left anymore. It's just like, I think we obviously want freedom. We want freedom.

最大化个人自由。我认为我们想要善待他人，要有同理心，但个人自由和基于功绩的社会非常重要。左派想要压制你的自由，尤其是言论自由，他们想要一个非功绩的社会，基于种族和性别的偏好。但我们只希望人们凭借技能和努力获得成功。如果他们不让人们就特定问题表达自己，那他们就没有顺应民意。如果他们试图压制人们的沟通能力，那只是因为他们想做人们不希望他们做的事，并想压制反对声音。仅此而已。人们看不到这一点——他们想称特朗普为法西斯——整件事就像透过镜子看世界。他们针对特朗普的骗局一个接一个。他们试图把麦迪逊广场花园的集会称为纳粹集会。我说，观众席里明明有以色列国旗。大约四分之一的演讲者是犹太人。集会上有各种种族、肤色、信仰和宗教的人。告诉我那哪里像纳粹？不。然而它被描绘成纳粹集会。MSNBC 甚至播放了 1930 年代纳粹集会的视频，并将其与特朗普集会对比，忽略了吉米·卡特也曾在那里演讲。麦迪逊广场花园举办过几十场政治集会——民主党方面就有几十场。X 上的人展示：这是吉米·卡特，这是比尔·克林顿。实际上，每位民主党总统候选人都在麦迪逊广场花园举办过集会。他们也是纳粹吗？但他们是在利用那些不积极参与社交媒体、没有时间仔细核查一切的低信息选民。

Maximize personal liberty. I think we want to be kind to people, we want to have empathy, but it's very important to have personal freedom and a merit-based society. The left wants to oppress your freedoms, especially freedom of speech, and they want a non-merit-based society with race-based and sex-based preferences. But we just want people to succeed based on their skills and hard work. If they don't want people to express themselves about particular issues, then they're not doing the will of the people. If they're trying to suppress people's ability to communicate, they're only doing that because they want to do things that people don't want them to do and they want to silence opposition. That's all it is. The fact that people can't see that—they want to call Trump a fascist—the whole thing is through the looking glass. It's one hoax after another that they're perpetrating against Trump. They try to call the rally at Madison Square Gardens a Nazi rally. I'm like, there was literally an Israeli flag in the audience. I think about a quarter of the speakers were Jewish. There were people of every race, color, creed, religion at that rally. Tell me what about that is Nazi. No. And yet it was portrayed as a Nazi rally. MSNBC literally showed video of the Nazi rally from the 1930s and compared it to the Trump rally, ignoring the fact that Jimmy Carter spoke there. There have been dozens of political rallies at Madison Square Gardens—dozens on the Democrat side. People on X show: here's Jimmy Carter, here's Bill Clinton. Actually, it looks like every presidential candidate on the Democrat side has done a rally at Madison Square Gardens. Are they Nazis too? But what they're doing is preying on low-information voters who aren't engaged actively on social media, who don't have the time to look through everything.

没错。只看传统主流媒体的人，与在 X 上看到真实论证和证据的人，世界观完全不同。当你发布 Twitter 文件时，遇到了什么阻力？我认为 Twitter 文件是信息时代理解政府对社交媒体和话语影响力的最重要事件之一。当我们发现政府实际上要求 Twitter 删除事实性帖子时——他们对 Facebook 也做了同样的事吗？他们让 Facebook 限制塔克·卡尔森节目的片段，将事实信息的浏览量压制了 50%。

Exactly. People who only look at legacy mainstream media have a totally different worldview than if they're on X, seeing the actual flow of argument and the actual evidence. What was the pushback when you released the Twitter Files? I think the Twitter Files is probably one of the most important things in this age of information for understanding the influence that government has on social media and discourse. When we found out that the government was actually asking Twitter to remove factual posts—did they do the same to Facebook? They had them throttle pieces of one of Tucker Carlson's shows, suppress the views by 50% of factual information.

政府对 Twitter 进行了大规模干预，但 Twitter 对此表示欢迎。旧 Twitter 由极左活动人士控制。他们欢迎政府干预，并因此从政府那里获得报酬——数百万美元用于压制信息。其中很多行为完全违法。FBI 有一个进入 Twitter 系统的神奇门户，但该门户中的所有通信在两周后自动删除，这违反了联邦信息自由法。所以我们甚至不知道说了什么，因为两周后全被删了。

There was massive government interference in Twitter, but Twitter welcomed it. Old Twitter was controlled by far-left activists. They welcomed the government interference. They got paid by the government for it—millions of dollars for suppressing information. A bunch of it was flat out illegal. The FBI had this magic portal into the Twitter system, but all communication in that portal was auto-deleted after two weeks, which breaks federal FOIA laws. So we don't even know what was said because it was all deleted after two weeks.

这太疯狂了。人们竟然认为这没问题，这太离谱了。这不对，违宪。没人希望政府拥有那种访问权限。当所有这些被曝光时，反弹如何？你发布时肯定预料到会有问题。发生了什么？

That's insane. It's so crazy that people thought that was okay. It's not okay. It's unconstitutional. No one would want the government to have that kind of access. What was the blowback when all that stuff got released? You had to anticipate problems when you released that. What happened?

我们损失了大量广告收入。这很疯狂，因为这本质上是新闻业最重要的形式之一：揭露政府腐败。奇怪的是，左派过去非常热衷于揭露政府腐败，但一旦他们控制了政府，就不再想揭露了。他们想假装左翼政府不可能腐败，因为我们站在正义的一边。

We lost a lot of advertising dollars. Which is crazy because it's essentially one of the most important forms of journalism: exposing government corruption. The weird thing is, the left used to be big on exposing government corruption, but once they control the government, they no longer want to expose it. They want to pretend the left-wing government is incapable of corruption because we're on the good side.

我认为只是当权者不想让对手伤害自己。正如你指出的，左派历史上直到大约 10 年前还是言论自由党，现在却成了反言论自由党。他们使用“仇恨言论”、“错误信息”、“虚假信息”等词汇，但这些是宣传用语。谁来定义仇恨言论？谁来定义错误信息？政府？你真的信任政府来做这个定义吗？第一修正案的全部意义就在于不信任政府。尤其是当他们错了且没有后果时。比如实验室泄漏理论——如果你提出论点，也许那个研究完全相同病毒的冠状病毒实验室，嘿，也许病毒就是从那里来的，因为病毒起源于那里，他们就会把你踢出 YouTube。

I think it's just that whoever is in power doesn't want the other side to hurt them. As you pointed out, the left historically, up until maybe 10 years ago, was the free speech party, and now it's the anti-free speech party. They use words like 'hate speech' and 'misinformation' and 'disinformation,' but these are propaganda words. Who's defining hate speech? Who's defining misinformation? The government? Do you really trust the government to make that definition? The whole point of the First Amendment is that you do not trust the government. Especially when they're wrong and there are no repercussions. Like with the lab leak theory—if you even presented the argument that maybe the coronavirus lab where they were working on the exact same virus that got released, hey maybe that's where it came from, since that's where the virus started, they'd kick you right off YouTube.

是的，没错。就像，你觉得它可能来自那个叫“新型冠状病毒研究所”的地方吗？约翰·斯图尔特那段关于新冠的表演太棒了。“门上写着什么？我能看看你的名片吗？”新冠拼命抵抗。约翰·斯图尔特从椅子上站起来，开始走动以掌控局面。干得好，约翰。然后左派当然试图封杀约翰·斯图尔特。而他是对的。没有道歉。还有整个福奇事件——任何对福奇的批评都像见了鬼一样。如果你读了 RFK 的书《真正的安东尼·福奇》，如果事实都在里面，那就是真的。全部有引用，你可以找到来源。而且，他从未因那本书被起诉，如果他编造了一堆谎言，那根本说不通。他会被起诉的。所以那家伙是个怪物。我也这么认为。

Yes, exactly. It's like, do you think maybe it could have come from the place called the Novel Coronavirus Research Institute? That John Stewart bit he did on COVID was amazing. 'What does it say on the door again? Can I see your business card?' And COVID resisted it with every fiber of his being. John Stewart got off his chair and started walking around to try to take control. Good on John. Then the left tried to cancel John Stewart, of course. Meanwhile, he was right. No apologies. And the whole Fauci thing—any criticism of Fauci is like an effing demon. If you read RFK's book 'The Real Anthony Fauci,' if the facts are in there, it's true. It's all referenced; you can find the sources. On top of it, he's never been sued for that book, which doesn't make any sense if he just made up a bunch of lies. He would get sued. So the guy's a monster. I think so.

是的，我也这么认为。看看他撒的那些谎……

Yeah, I think so too. Just looking at the lies that he told...

他试图向兰德·保罗定义功能获得研究的方式，但我觉得很多人不知道福奇资助了武汉的生物武器研究。他通过美国一个虚假的非营利组织 EcoHealth 间接转钱，然后他们把钱送到了武汉。奥巴马在 2014 年叫停了这件事。

The way he tried to define gain-of-function research to Rand Paul, but I think a lot of people out there don't realize Fauci funded the bioweapons research that was going on in Wuhan. He bank-shotted it off EcoHealth, a fake nonprofit in the US, and they sent it to Wuhan. Obama put the skids on that; he stopped it in 2014.

是的，我的意思是，给奥巴马一些肯定，他确实看到了这一点，说“嘿，这太疯狂了”，他确实停止了所谓的功能获得——再说一次，这是一个宣传词汇。因为他们说的功能是什么？死亡，对吧？所以如果你用正确的词，这就是“死亡最大化”。然后你会想，“哦，嘿，伙计们，我们应该资助死亡最大化的生物武器研究吗？”因为这就是功能获得的意思。它意味着制造一种疾病，让人们感染并传播给他人。顺便问一下，那个功能又是什么？哦，功能就是死亡。所以如果你在做这方面的研究，就干脆叫它死亡最大化病毒。这项研究背后的想法是我们可以治愈这些东西。为什么你没有治愈方法？先有治愈方法，再有疾病。这完全说不通。你们没有应对它泄露的策略。所以你们不得不以创纪录的速度制造这种新疫苗，即“曲速行动”，在几乎没有测试的情况下就投放给人们。这太疯狂了。整件事都疯了。而且每个人都跟着走。简直是卡通片级别的疯狂。

Yes, I mean, to give Obama some credit, he actually looked at this and said, 'Hey, this is crazy,' and he did stop the so-called gain-of-function—again, a propaganda word. Because what is the function they're talking about? Death, right? So if you use the right word, this is 'death maximization.' Then you're like, 'Oh, hey guys, should we fund bioweapon research into death maximization?' Because that's what gain-of-function means. It means making a disease so that people can get it and give it to people. And by the way, what's that function again? Oh, the function is death. So just call it a death-maximizing virus if you're doing research on that. And the idea behind this research is so that we can cure these things. How come you don't have a cure? Start with a cure first, disease second. It doesn't make any sense. You guys had no strategy for dealing with it if it got out. So you had to make up this new vaccine in record time, Operation Warp Speed, released to the people with very little testing. It's crazy. The whole thing's crazy. And everybody just went along with it. Looney Tunes next level.

看着人们排队跟进真是令人着迷。这是有史以来最大的骗局之一，每个人都排着队。当你回溯到 20 世纪 90 年代制药公司能够在媒体上做广告时，一切都变了。因为我们没有公费医疗，这完全是一个利润骗局。他们大肆宣称各种从未研究过、没有数据支持的事情——比如它能阻止传播、阻止感染、对孕妇安全、对儿童安全。所有这些都是。他们把它推向全世界。如果你在鸡尾酒会上不这么说，你就是贱民，是反疫苗者。这完全疯了。就像否认大屠杀一样；你会被上流社会踢出去。真是疯了。

It was fascinating to watch people step in line. That's like one of the biggest scams of all time, and everybody got in line. When you take it back to when pharmaceutical drug companies were able to advertise on media in the 1990s, that changed everything. Because we don't have socialized medicine, it's a complete profit scam. They went hard claiming all sorts of things that were never researched, not supported by data—like the fact that it would stop transmission, stop infection, that it was safe for pregnant women, safe for children. All of it. And they pushed it on the whole world. If you didn't say that at a cocktail party, you were a pariah, an antivaxer. It was totally psycho. It was like being a Holocaust denier; you get kicked out of polite society. Exactly bananas.

我应该说，我总体上支持疫苗。我认为我们应该审视这些东西，但我相信科学方法。所以你不应该全盘接受任何药物或治疗是 100% 好的。你应该总是带着一些怀疑来看待，尤其是当数据来自有着长期犯罪历史的制药公司时。他们在研究中有利可图。这就像问烟草公司吸烟是否危险一样。根据我们的科学家的说法，一切都很好。他们在法庭上一直撒谎。他们对待奥施康定也是如此，当时他们说它不会上瘾。他们有着悠久的历史，只要有钱赚就满口谎言。这就是他们做的。他们确实输掉了数十亿美元的诉讼。

I should say I'm generally pro-vaccine overall. I think we should look at these things, but I believe in the scientific method. So you shouldn't blanket-accept that any given medication or treatment is 100% good. You should always view it with some skepticism, especially when you're getting data from pharmaceutical drug companies that have a long history of criminal conduct. They have a vested interest in the research. It's like asking tobacco companies whether smoking is dangerous. According to our scientists, everything's fine. They lied in court forever. The same thing they did with OxyContin when they said it wasn't addictive. They have a long history of being full of it if it makes them money. That's what they do. They've literally lost multi-billion-dollar lawsuits.

你有出色的科学家、临床研究人员，他们开发了不可思议的药物。那是他们的工作——找出治愈疾病的新方法。然后你有那些搞钱的人。问题在于，当你以为他们只是为了帮助别人时，他们还有另一派，只是数字人，他们只关心利润最大化。他们对股东有义务，要尽可能多地赚钱，所以他们只想把药推给所有人。比如万络丑闻：内部邮件显示他们知道会有心血管事件，人们会中风，但他们说“我认为我们仍然会做得很好”。他们赚了大约 120 亿美元，被罚款 70 亿美元，5 万到 6 万人死亡。其中一个是我的朋友。他中风了，死了——不，他活了下来，但他本来是个非常健康的人，之后就有了神经问题。他服用了万络，突然之间他说话含糊不清，无法集中注意力。人们以为他中风了，把他送到医院。然后有了一起大规模集体诉讼，万络被撤出市场。整件事都疯了。这种事情有很长的历史。我认为 FDA 批准的药物中大约三分之一后来被撤回了。这太疯狂了。你说你认可的东西中有三分之一有问题，但你却试图阻止 MDMA 疗法用于退伍军人。

You have amazing scientists, clinical researchers who develop incredible drugs. That's their job—to figure out new ways to cure things. Then you have the money people. The problem is when you assume they're only doing it to help people, but they have this other faction that are just numbers people, all they care about is maximizing profits. They have an obligation to their shareholders to make the most money possible, so they just want to push it on everybody. Like the Vioxx scandal: there were internal emails showing they knew there would be cardiovascular events, people would get strokes, and they said, 'I think we're still going to do well.' They made like $12 billion, got fined $7 billion, and 50,000 to 60,000 people died. One of them was a friend of mine. He got a stroke and died—no, he lived, but he was a really healthy guy, and after that he had neurological problems. He took Vioxx, and all of a sudden he was slurring his words, couldn't concentrate. People thought he was having a stroke, took him to the hospital. Then there was a giant class-action lawsuit, Vioxx got pulled from the market. The whole thing's crazy. There's a long history of this. I think about one-third of the drugs the FDA approves gets pulled. That's bananas. You're saying one-third of the things you say are okay, but yet you're trying to stop MDMA therapy for veterans.

说实话，他们应该让 MDMA 通过。我认为这确实能帮助很多人。它能帮助很多人。有很多不同的疗法，特别是裸盖菇素、伊博格碱。事实上，你必须去墨西哥才能为退伍军人获得伊博格碱疗法——我谈过的很多人都去过那里，这完全给了他们一个全新的开始，刷新了他们的思想，对生活有了全新的视角，缓解了抑郁，治愈了成瘾。但这是非法的。是的，非法的。奥施康定，去拿吧。

They should let MDMA through honestly. I think that would actually help a lot of people. It would help a lot of people. There are a lot of different therapies, specifically psilocybin, ibogaine. The fact that you have to go to Mexico to get ibogaine therapy for veterans—so many guys I've talked to have gone over there, and it's completely given them a clean slate, refreshed their mind, a totally new perspective on life, alleviated depression, cured addictions. Illegal. Yeah, illegal. OxyContin, go get it.

我认识一些人，他们的生活被奥施康定毁了。

I know some people whose life was ruined by OxyContin.

是的，因为这真的取决于个人生化特性。对我来说，阿片类药物不会上瘾。我手术时用过，它们几乎不影响我的疼痛程度，让我发痒、不舒服，让我变笨。所以我永远不可能对酒精或阿片类药物上瘾；这根本不可能，因为我的生化特性没有那个倾向。但我喜欢美味的食物。我对美味的食物上瘾。我有一整柜的酒；它们只是装饰。我基本上没试过迷幻蘑菇。我对酒精的感觉也一样；我可以轻松戒掉。我可以几周不喝酒，完全没问题。但我知道有些人，他们喝一杯就……

Yeah, because it really depends on individual biochemistry. To me, opioids are not addictive. I've had them when I've had operations, and they barely affect my pain level, make me itchy and uncomfortable, make me stupid. So I could never get addicted to alcohol or opioids; it's just impossible because my biochemistry just does not have that. But I love tasty food. I'm addicted to tasty food. I have a whole bar of alcohol; it's there for decoration. I've never done shrooms basically. I feel the same way about alcohol; I could easily quit. I'll go weeks without having a drink and it doesn't bother me at all. But I know some people, they have one drink and they're...

说到赛马，这就是我们所有人之间的生化差异。

Off to the Races and that's the difference in the biochemical differences that we all have.

是的，我觉得很多成瘾都是这样。我不赌，但我能理解。我见过别人那样。但我会本能地回避那些我知道会毁掉我生活的东西。比如，我见过太多人碰可卡因，它看起来太诱人了，我不想沾上。

Yeah, I mean, I think that's the case with a lot of addictions. I'm not addicted to gambling, but I get it. I see it, I've seen it in people. But I have this aversion to things that I know are going to ruin my life. Like, I see it, that's why I've never tried cocaine. I just saw too many people, it looks too fun. I don't want to get involved.

是的，我觉得对于任何药物，无论合法还是非法，问题在于：你能完成下面这个句子吗？“______ 让我成为了一个更好的人。”我从没听人说过冰毒让他们成为更好的人，或者可卡因让他们成为更好的人。没有。

Yeah, I mean, I think generally for any given drug, legal or illegal, the question is: can you complete the following sentence? "Blank made me a better person." Like, I've never heard anyone say meth made them a better person, or cocaine made them a better person. No.

从来没有。嗯，冰毒让很多士兵变得更好了，我觉得。是的，我是说，如果你需要，如果你的士兵需要连续三天不睡觉，那确实很有效。

Ever. Um, meth made a lot of soldiers better, I think. That's yeah. I mean, if you're doing, if your soldiers need to stay awake for three days in a row, yeah, it really is effective at that.

是的。人们总嘲笑法国在二战中投降，但你知道比纳粹更可怕的是什么吗？磕了冰毒的纳粹。他们根本停不下来，老兄。中了六枪还在往前冲。那边那本书《闪电战》讲的就是他们给士兵用甲基苯丙胺和各种药物的情况。排在最前面的士兵拿到的冰毒最多。是的，剂量不同。

Yeah. People give France a hard time about capitulating in World War II, but you know what's worse than the Nazis? Nazis on meth. They're not stopping, man. Six bullets, they're still coming. That book over there, Blitzed, is all about the use of methamphetamines and the different drugs that they gave their soldiers. The guys at the front of the line, they gave the most meth. Yes, they had different dosages.

是的，我的意思是，磕了冰毒你基本上会觉得自己刀枪不入。所以，就像我说的，纳粹追你是一回事，但磕了冰毒的纳粹，你会想：“天哪，这帮家伙三天都不带停的。”他们根本停不下来。太疯狂了。

Yeah, I mean, you just basically think you're invulnerable on meth. And so, it's one thing, like I said, it's one thing to have the Nazis coming after you, but Nazis on meth, you're like, "Holy shit, these guys are not stopping for three days." They're not stopping. It's so crazy.

是的，“冰毒让我成为更好的人”这种话可不常听到。我从没听过。没有。但你听到很多裸盖菇素的倡导者，很多人谈论迷幻药。我确实听过很多人说 LSD 或蘑菇或 MDMA 让他们成为更好的人。很多人，是的。

Yeah, that's not a statement, "Meth made me a better person," that you hear very often. I've never heard that before. No. You hear a lot of like psilocybin advocates, you hear a lot of people that talk about psychedelics. I've actually heard many people say that LSD or mushrooms or MDMA made them a better person. Many people, yeah.

所以我觉得，FDA 应该有一条规则：“听着，如果你能完成这个句子，无论合法还是非法，‘______ 让我成为了一个更好的人’，那这就是好药。如果不能，那就是坏药。”另外，如果现在有些药物能彻底毁掉人们的生活，那么用这个理由去阻止其他可能毁掉生活但也能帮助很多人的药物，这根本说不通，对吧？这基本上和审查制度一样。你在剥夺人们辨别真假的能力，也在剥夺人们判断什么对自己好、什么不好的能力。而找到答案的方法就是获取尽可能多的信息，去做研究，并且要有不带偏见的、客观的观察者来看待这一切，给你真实的数据。

So that's why I'm like, I think a rule for the FDA should be: "Hey look, if you can complete the sentence, legal or illegal, that 'blank made you a better person,' then you got a good drug. And if you can't, you got a bad drug." Also, if there are drugs that are available right now that can absolutely ruin people's lives, the rationalization for stopping other drugs that might ruin people's lives but also can help a lot of people's lives doesn't make any sense, right? You're basically doing the same thing as censorship. You're taking away people's ability to discern what's true and not true, and you're taking away people's ability to discern what's good for you and not good for you. And the way to find that out is to have as much information as possible, so to do research and actually to have unbiased, actual objective observers who are looking at all this stuff that give you real data.

是的。而相反的情况，或者说后果，就是如果你不这么做，你就是在壮大贩毒集团。是的，这就是他们有钱的全部原因。因为在美国卖这些药是违法的。需求永远不会消失。所以现在你不仅没有限制毒品数量，反而因为掺了芬太尼之类的杂质，毒品变得有毒。你只是在杀人。通过保护人们免受自身伤害，你并没有拯救任何人。

Yes. And the opposite of that, or the consequence of that, is if you don't do that, you're empowering cartels. Yes, that's the whole reason why they have all that money. It's because it's illegal to sell these drugs in America. The demand is never going away. So instead of limiting the amount of drugs, now you've got toxic drugs because fentanyl and all this other stuff has been cut in because they're not pure. So you're just killing people. You're not saving anybody by protecting them from themselves.

没错。但这是个棘手的情况，因为你能怎么办？如果你直接说：“好了，现在谁都可以卖”，那些一直卖壮阳药的人现在也能卖冰毒了。天哪，你还能来个双组合：伟哥加冰毒。对吧？老天爷。

True. But it's a tricky situation because what do you do? Like if you just say, "Okay, now everyone can sell," all these people that have been selling boner pills, now you can sell meth. Like, holy shit, you get the double combo: the Viagra and meth. Right? Jesus Christ.

我的天。嗯，我是说，现在有多少人已经在这么干了？外面很多人本质上就是在用冰毒，尤其是那些滥用阿德拉的人。他们基本上整天都在用安非他命。是的，阿德拉就是低配版的甲基苯丙胺。

Oh my god. Well, I mean, how many people are already doing that right now? There's a lot of people out there that are essentially on meth, especially people that abuse Adderall. They're basically amphetamines up all day long. Yeah, Adderall is low-grade methamphetamine.

是的。我确实见过有人吃太多阿德拉后变得更糟。糟得多，你知道吗？就像愤怒放大器。所以，我不是说阿德拉没有利弊。这不是一个非黑即白的问题。它对有些人确实帮助很大。但高剂量下，老兄，那东西，我见过有人在高剂量阿德拉下变成了狂暴的怪物。他们就是愤怒，一直极度愤怒。是的，他们完蛋了。

Yeah. And I've actually seen people become much worse people if they take too much Adderall. Much worse, you know? It's like an anger amplifier. So, now I'm not saying Adderall is something where there are pluses and minuses. It's not a clear-cut issue. It does help some people a great deal. But in higher doses, man, that stuff, I've seen people turn into just raging monsters on high doses of Adderall. They're just angry, extremely angry all the time. Yeah, they're messed up.

是的，这就是磕冰毒的下场。太疯狂了。冰毒把你变成一个该死的愤怒恶魔。而且处方量这么大，我真是服了。我们谷歌过，有一年这个国家开出了 3900 万张阿德拉处方。哦，是的。偶尔阿德拉短缺，就会引发大范围恐慌，你知道吗？然后人们怎么办？这和当年试图限制奥施康定用量时一样，人们转向街头海洛因。如果你对阿德拉上瘾，而你的毒贩，那个卖你大麻的家伙，说：“嘿，老兄，我能搞到低配冰毒，就是纳粹用的那种。”其实他们用的是高纯度冰毒。是药用级别的。那是史诗级的冰毒。就像……药用级纯冰毒会让你，哦我的天，在一段时间内超级高效，你会好一阵子不睡觉，然后就会出现一些愤怒管理问题。

Yeah, that's what happens if you take meth. It's crazy. Meth turns you into a freaking rage demon. And so many prescriptions, I'm like, Jesus. We googled it, one year there was like 39 million prescriptions for Adderall in this country. Oh yeah. Like once in a while there's an Adderall shortage and there's like widespread panic, you know? And then what do people do? And then it's the same thing as when they tried to limit the amount of OxyContin, people go to street heroin. And if you're addicted to Adderall and your dealer, the guy who sells you weed, is like, "Hey man, I can get you low-grade meth, like the stuff the Nazis took." Well, they had high-grade meth actually. They had pharmaceutical grade. It was epic meth. It was like made by the... Pharmaceutical grade meth is going to be... If you look at the freaking Wikipedia page, there are many different versions of meth, not all the same, and they have different effects. But pharmaceutical grade pure meth, you are going to be, oh my God, super productive for a certain period of time, and you're not going to sleep for a while, and then you will have some anger management issues.

所以，实际上，纳粹确实减少了冰毒的使用量，因为他们发生了好几起士兵因服用过量冰毒而杀死军官的事件。天哪。他们会开枪。很多军官被自己磕了太多冰毒的排给干掉了。这种事发生了好几次。一个人磕了大量冰毒后，会变得非常愤怒。

So, they actually, the Nazis did actually roll back how much meth they were using because they had quite a few incidents of the soldiers killing their officers because they were on too much meth. Jesus Christ. They would shoot them. Many officers got fragged by their platoon that was on too much meth. That happened quite a few times. You just, when someone's on a lot of meth, they can get very angry.

你有没有注意过约翰·麦卡菲在他后院实验室里制冰毒的事？我是说，麦卡菲真是个奇人。他是个奇人。他逃亡的时候我们请他上过播客。他从一个秘密地点打进来，当时他在躲避……他在哪儿？哥斯达黎加？是那儿吗？伯利兹，对吧？所以他在躲避当局的时候打进来，我们在他逃亡期间请他上了播客。我问他关于那些帖子的事，因为有一个和他关联的在线账号，上面有他非常详细的实验室……

Did you ever pay attention to when John McAfee was cooking meth in a lab in his backyard? I mean, McAfee is quite a character. He was a character. We had him on the podcast when he was on the run. So he called in from an undisclosed location when he was running from... Where was he? Costa Rica? Is that where he was? Belize, right? So when he was running from the authorities, he called in. We had him on the podcast on the run. And I was asking him about these posts because there was an online account that was linked to him where he had this very detailed laboratory...

他做数学就像超级天才一样。我是说，我觉得他有自己的实验室，制造各种毒品。我跟一个记者聊过，他去比斯采访了马菲，记者说那是他见过最吓人的事之一。他吓坏了。马菲有个把戏，就是跟自己玩俄罗斯轮盘赌。他往左轮手枪里放一颗子弹，转动弹膛，显然他有某种技巧知道那不是要命的子弹。但我在想，如果马菲嗨了还这么干，他不可能每次都把技巧用对吧。

Sophisticated making the best math like a super genius cooking math. I mean, I think he had his lab, making a wide range of drugs. And I talked to a reporter who went down and interviewed him in Bise, and the reporter said that's one of the scariest things. He was quite terrified. So one of the things Mafi had, I guess this trick where he would play Russian roulette with himself. He'd put a bullet in the revolver, spin the chamber, and clearly he had some trick to know it's not the right bullet. But I do wonder if Mafi is high and he does that, he's not always going to get the trick right.

你确定他有技巧？

Do you sure he had a trick?

据这个记者说，他去比斯拜访马菲时，马菲拿出左轮手枪，装了一颗子弹，转动弹膛，然后对准自己的头扣了扳机，咔哒一声。记者说：“求你别这样，这太疯狂了。”咔哒、咔哒、咔哒。然后他把枪对准地面，咔哒一声，砰，朝地上开了一枪。

So according to this reporter, when he went to visit Mafi in Bise, Mafi took out the revolver, put a bullet in, spun the chamber, and then pointed at his head and went click. The reporter is like, "Please don't do this, this is insane." Click, click, click. And then pointed the gun at the ground and went click, bang, and shot a bullet in the ground.

天哪，这派对把戏也太绝了。真是顶级派对把戏。

Jesus, that's a hell of a party trick. Jeez, it's the next level party trick.

这家伙《猎鹿人》看太多了。记得那场戏吗？他们强迫……是的，那场戏很沉重。德尼罗和克里斯托弗·沃肯，那是电影史上最伟大的场景之一。我记得看那场戏时紧张得抓裤子。

That's the guy who seen The Deer Hunter too many times. Remember that scene when they were forcing... yes, that was a heavy scene. De Niro and Christopher Walken, that's one of the greatest scenes in any movie ever. I remember watching that scene just clawing at my pants.

马菲是个野小子。太野了。而且他还创造了出色的杀毒软件。

Mafi was a wild boy. Wild. And you created brilliant antivirus software.

他可能也制造了一些病毒。

He may have made some of the viruses too.

你这么想？他不是给一堆政府机构送了带病毒的笔记本电脑，好让他能监视他们在干什么吗？

You think so? Well, didn't he give laptops to a bunch of government organizations with viruses on them, so that he could pay attention to what they were doing?

如果有人干掉那家伙，我不会惊讶。我不知道他后来怎么样了，但他就是那种会让人说“这家伙太不靠谱了”的人。他很可能掌握敏感信息。我不确定他有没有。我觉得他是个有趣的人。我一般觉得，只要不伤害别人，就没什么问题。不过有说法称马菲在比斯杀了他的邻居。

I wouldn't be surprised if somebody whacked that guy. I don't know what happened to him, but he would be a guy that would be like, "This guy is a little bit too loose." He probably had sensitive information. I don't know for sure he did. I found him to be an interesting guy. I generally feel like if somebody's not harming someone else, they should be okay. Now there is some suggestion that Mafi killed his neighbor in Bise.

很可能干了。也许邻居是个混蛋。我觉得他很可能干了。看起来他很可能干了。邻居杀了他的狗，然后他好像杀了邻居。据说是这样。我是说，看起来很有可能。可能性不是零。绝对不是零。可能性大于一半。他是个嗑药的野人，玩俄罗斯轮盘。嘿，也许你会杀了邻居。我是说，如果有人杀了你的狗，你也很可能想杀了他。

Probably did. Maybe the neighbor was a douchebag. I think he probably did. Seems like he probably did. The neighbor killed his dog, and then it seems like he killed the neighbor. Allegedly. I mean, it seems likely. It's not a zero possibility. It's definitely not zero. It seems more than not. He's a methed-up wild man playing Russian roulette. Hey, maybe you kill your neighbor. I mean, if somebody killed your dog, you'd be really inclined to kill them too.

有人杀了你的松鼠，约翰·威克。是啊，松鼠那事太离谱了。

Somebody killed your squirrel, John Wick. Yeah, the squirrel thing is bananas.

所以关于整个松鼠事件，事情是这样的：我们生活在美国，号称自由之地，政府怎么能持枪闯入你家，如果你反抗就会被枪杀，然后带走你的宠物并处决？如果他们能这样对待你的宠物，你觉得他们能对你做什么？我知道这不是夸张。听起来好像……哦，这太疯狂了，你怎么能这么联系？但问题是……为什么要杀死那只可爱的小松鼠？它明显是宠物，从小养大的。如果你看到那家伙和松鼠的互动，那太棒了。真的很可爱。是的，绝对。那明显是一只宠物松鼠，还有浣熊，没有造成任何伤害。政府闯进他家，带走他的宠物并杀死它们。我认为这真的应该让人们行动起来，因为你想，就像《疾速追杀》里，约翰·威克只想要平静。电影里，他只想退休，他们给他很多钱，因为他们想让他继续当杀手。他们威胁他。他说：“听着，我不干了。”然后他们杀了他的狗。那是个坏主意。他们杀了一只可爱的小狗，而那只狗是他前妻死于癌症时留给他的礼物。好电影。有史以来最好的复仇电影，因为它太荒谬了。他杀了所有人。你还支持他。他们不该杀他的狗。他们不该杀那只松鼠。我们没听说过的案子还有多少？看看那个小家伙。那只松鼠显然和那家伙有感情。它会跳到他身上，爬到他身上。那是他的宠物。那只松鼠把那个人当作保护者、伙伴。这没什么不对。在得克萨斯州，这完全合法。你可以养斑马。你想要什么都可以。这就是自由的论点。反面是很多人后院养老虎，这不好。但这只是松鼠，不是蟒蛇、鳄鱼或黑猩猩。

So here's the thing about the whole squirrel thing. How can it be that we live in America, supposedly land of the free, and the government can barge into your home with guns, so if you resist you're going to get shot, and then take your pets and execute them? If they can do that to your pets, what do you think they can do to you? I know that's not an exaggeration. It sounds like you're... oh, that's so crazy, how can you make that connection? But it's... why would you kill that cute little squirrel that was obviously a pet and trained from the time it was a baby? If you see the interaction that guy has with that squirrel, it was wonderful. It was really cute. Yes, absolutely. It was just obviously a pet squirrel, and raccoon too, and doing no harm. And the government comes in, barges into the guy's house, takes his pets, and kills them. I think this should really get people mobilized frankly, because you think you see like the John Wick movie where John Wick just wants peace. In the movie, he just wants to retire, and they offer him tons of money because they want him to keep being an assassin. They threaten him. He's like, "Listen, I'm out." And they kill his dog. That was a bad idea. They killed a cute little puppy, and the puppy was his ex-wife's gift to him when she died of cancer. Great movie. The best revenge movie of all time, because it's so ridiculous. He kills everybody. And you're rooting for him. They shouldn't have killed his dog. They shouldn't have killed that squirrel. How many cases have we not heard about? Look at that little guy. That squirrel clearly had a love relationship with that guy. He would hop all over him and climb on him. That was his pet. That squirrel thought of that man as his protector, his companion. There was nothing wrong with that. And in Texas, it's totally legal. You can have a zebra out here. You can have whatever you want. And that's the argument for freedom. The flip side is you get a bunch of people with tigers in their backyard, which is not great. But this was a squirrel. It's not an anaconda or a crocodile or a chimpanzee.

你看过《疯狂黑猩猩》吗？哦天哪，黑猩猩会吃掉你的脸。它们会把你搞残。它们甚至不杀你，它们只是……黑猩猩甚至不杀人，这真的很奇怪。它们只是咬掉你的手，扯掉你的命根子，撕烂你的脸。它们想让你活着。如果黑猩猩想一拳把你打死，很容易，用不了多久。但它们不杀你，它们只是把你撕碎。而且你可以养黑猩猩。嗯，以前很多州都可以养，后来《疯狂黑猩猩》揭露了很多问题，PETA 在阻止人们养黑猩猩方面做得很好，因为一旦它们长到五岁左右，你就控制不住了。这完全可以理解。如果有人养了危险的动物，但松鼠和浣熊显然不是。松鼠到处都是。这就是最疯狂的地方。为什么不能在家里养？我们面对的是什么规则？到处都有老鼠。我是说，他们让罪犯逍遥法外，暴力罪犯逍遥法外，却花你的税金闯进来处决你的宠物。搞什么？

Did you see Chimp Crazy? Oh man, chimps will eat your face. They will mess you up. They don't even kill you, they just... chimps don't even kill people, which is really weird. They just bite your hands off and rip your dick off and tear your face apart. They want to leave you alive. They could kill you easily if a chimp wanted to just punch you in the head until you're dead, it wouldn't take long. But they don't kill you, they just rip you apart. And you can have a chimp. Well, you used to be able to have a chimp in a lot of states, and then Chimp Crazy kind of exposed a lot of that, and PETA did a great job of stopping people from keeping chimps as pets, because once they hit like five, you can't control them anymore. That's totally understandable. If somebody has a creature that is dangerous to others, but obviously a squirrel and a raccoon are not. Squirrels are everywhere. That's what's so crazy. Why can't you have it in the house? What kind of rules are we dealing with? You have rats everywhere. I mean, they're allowing criminals to go free, violent criminals to go free, but they're spending your tax dollars to come in and execute your pets. What the hell?

到底发生了什么？这简直是越权，是政府越权，而且每年都在恶化。这就是为什么我们必须反击。有人说，嗯，那只是一只松鼠。但你看，在《疾速追杀》里，那只是一条狗，对吧？是啊，但记得那个俄罗斯人说，那是条狗，只是条狗。只是只松鼠。是啊，最搞笑的是，我完全无法理解怎么会有人能为此辩护。在我看来，在一个理性的世界里，那个人只需要说：你看到我和这只松鼠了吗？它是宠物。你看，它跳到我身上，它吃、它睡。我能养沙鼠，但不能养松鼠。我能养豚鼠，但不能养松鼠。我能养龙猫。我女儿有只龙猫，很可爱，到处爬。但不能养松鼠。就算他们把松鼠带走，难道不能把它放回树林里吗？但问题是，你必须对它实施安乐死，因为它习惯了被喂食，不知道如何觅食，也找不到家。松鼠很残忍，它们对彼此极其残忍。它们把对方扔下树，这也是为什么松鼠能从 30 英尺高处摔下来，弹一下地面就能活下来。这是一种自然适应，因为松鼠在交配时会互相撕咬。以前有个谣言，说松鼠会咬掉对方的蛋蛋。好吧，那似乎是个谣言，但源于松鼠在交配时极其无情。所以一只雌松鼠在逃跑。我家后院有松鼠，我经常看到。一只雌松鼠发情了，所有雄松鼠都争着去找她。它们爬上树，绕着树追逐，真的把对方扔下树，就为了……所以如果这只可怜的小花生，习惯了和一个人住在公寓里，到了野外，好吧，至少它们有机会。是啊，至少有机会。但机会？为什么不直接把它留给那个人？是啊，肯定该留给那个人。你到底有什么毛病？为什么要杀那只松鼠？完全没道理。是啊，更糟的是，一些左派人士竟然发帖说他们很高兴 MAGA 松鼠被杀。MAGA 松鼠？好像松鼠有意识形态似的。它只是只可爱的小毛球。没错。嗯，这是个很好的象征，因为大多数理性、有同情心的人都觉得这很糟糕，大多数养宠物的人也觉得很糟糕。所以我不知道。我希望人们出去投票给花生男。就算别的都不管，就投票给花生。

What is going on exactly? And it's like, but it's overreach, it's government overreach, and this just keeps getting worse every year. And that's why we've got to fight back against this. And people say like, well, it's just a squirrel. Well, was it, you know, in John Wick's case, it was just a dog, right? Yeah, you know, but remember the Russian guy said it's a dog, it's just a dog. Just a squirrel. Yeah, well, the funniest thing is, I just don't understand how anybody could justify it. It seems to me that in a logical world, all that guy would have to do is say, you see me with this squirrel? This squirrel's a pet. Yeah, like look, he hops on me, he eats, he sleeps. I can keep a gerbil, but I can't keep a squirrel. I can have a guinea pig, I can't have a squirrel. I can have a chinchilla. My daughter has a chinchilla, it's adorable, adorable little thing, climbs all over. Can't have a squirrel. Even if they did take a squirrel away, couldn't they have released it into the woods or something? Well, the idea is you have to euthanize it because it's used to being fed, it doesn't know how to forage, it won't be able to find a home. Squirrels are brutal, squirrels are absolutely brutal to each other. They throw each other out of trees, which is one of the reasons why squirrels can fall from like 30 feet and just bounce off the ground and live. It's a natural adaptation because squirrels during mating bite each other. There used to be a rumor, a myth, that squirrels bite each other's nuts off. Okay, that seems to be a myth, but it came from the fact that squirrels are so ruthless during mating. So one female is just running away. I have squirrels in my backyard, I watch it all the time. One female apparently goes into estrus, and all the male squirrels fight to get to her. So they're running up trees and chasing each other around trees, literally throwing each other off trees to try to have... So if this poor little Peanut the squirrel, who's used to living with a guy in an apartment, gets out there in the wild world, well, fair enough, at least they have a chance. Yeah, at least he has a chance. But chance? How about just leave him with the guy? Yeah, leave him with the guy for sure. What the hell is wrong with you? Why are you killing that squirrel? It doesn't make any sense. Yeah, and then to add insult to injury, there were a bunch of people on the left who were actually posting that they're glad that MAGA squirrel got killed. Which is MAGA squirrel? Like the squirrel has an ideology. It's a cute little fluffy squirrel. Exactly. Well, it's a nice symbol because most reasonable, compassionate people think that's terrible, and most people who have pets think it's terrible. So I don't know. I hope people just go out there and vote for Peanut man. If nothing else, just vote for Peanut.

他们把特朗普描绘成一个怪物。他们把他说过的最糟糕的话放大。他不是个完美的人，但猜怎么着，没有人是完美的。不存在完美的人。这种纯洁性测试。如果奥巴马是完美的人，他就不会在台上撒谎，说什么“非常优秀的人”骗局。没有人会是完美的人。但他们不明白特朗普的一点是，他太疯狂了，如果你告诉他他不能当总统，就像奥巴马在白宫记者协会晚宴上做的那样？有一件事我是而你永远成不了：美国总统。你看到特朗普在观众席上，好吧。有趣的是，我确实参加了那次白宫记者协会晚宴。那本来应该是吐槽总统的，对吧？特朗普在那里，他实际上是来支持的，基本上如果你去白宫记者协会晚宴，你是来支持总统和媒体的。而且应该是吐槽总统。特朗普就在那里，他是来支持的。然后他们反过来开始吐槽特朗普。他就坐在那里。我想，喂，我只是来参加晚宴，我不是……我只是来支持的。你知道那是为什么吗？因为出生地问题。哦，好吧，是的，就是那个。特朗普是很多在网上散布谣言的人的头儿，说奥巴马的出生证明是伪造的，他实际上来自肯尼亚。奇怪的是，如果你回顾奥巴马的早期，有些资料说他来自肯尼亚。比如他大学里的什么东西说他来自肯尼亚。但你知道，那可能只是人们经常印错东西。并不意味着他真的来自肯尼亚。但特朗普是散布那个所谓假谣言的人之一。他为什么那么卖力地推动？我不是……这种事我想去查一下，他到底说了什么？不，他确实说了。他确实在说，你看，我觉得他没有时间深入了解事情。是啊，所以我认为他可能被一群像玛乔丽·泰勒·格林那样的人影响，他们带着一些疯狂的理论来找他。没错，他可能确实如此。而且我认为很多那样的东西是故意喂给人们的，这样他们就会说错话，从而容易被驳斥。而且我认为也有很多人就是编造，他们告诉你地球是平的，然后一群人看了 YouTube 视频就信了。是啊，但在那次白宫记者协会晚宴上，我在场，他们攻击特朗普的程度真的太过分了。让所有人都感到不舒服。真的，太过分了。我的意思是，我觉得开一两个玩笑没问题，但他们在那次晚宴上对特朗普下了狠手，你可以看到特朗普越来越生气，越来越沮丧。我想，伙计，这不是好兆头。我当时就是这么想的。我离特朗普两桌远，我看着，心想，这太过分了。他们从那次晚宴中搞出来的东西真是疯狂，因为他是那种如果你告诉他他不能做某事，他就会一直尝试的人。在那次白宫记者协会晚宴上那么挖苦他真是个巨大的错误。看看他们利用法律体系攻击他的方式，比如纽约那件事，34 项重罪指控。

They've done such a job of painting Trump as a monster. They've taken the worst things that he's ever said and amplified them. He's not a perfect person, but guess what, no one's a perfect person. They don't exist. This purity test. Like if Obama was a perfect person, he wouldn't be lying on stage about that very fine people hoax. There's exactly no one who's going to be a perfect person. But the thing that they didn't understand about Trump is he's so crazy that if you tell him he can't be president, like remember Obama did that during the White House Correspondents' Dinner? There's one thing that I am that you'll never be: president of the United States. You see Trump in the audience going, okay. Funny thing is, I was actually at that White House Correspondents' Dinner. It's supposed to be a roast of the president, right? Trump's there, he's actually supporting, you know, basically if you go to the White House Correspondents' Dinner, you're there in support of the president and support of the press. And it's meant to be roasting the president. Trump's just there, he's like, you know, just he's there as part of the support. And then they turned it around and just started roasting Trump. And he's just sitting there. I'm like, he's like, yo, I just came to the dinner, I wasn't, I'm just here to support. You know what it was because of, right? The birther stuff. Oh, okay, yeah, that's what it all was. Trump was at the head of a lot of these people spreading this rumor online that Obama's birth certificate was forged and he's actually from Kenya. What's weird is if you go back to Obama's early days, there are some things that say he's from Kenya. Like I think in his college something said he was from Kenya. But you know, that could just be people print things wrong all the time. It doesn't mean he's actually from Kenya. But Trump was one of those guys that was like spreading that supposedly false rumor. Why is he pushing it hard? I'm not, this is the kind of thing where I want to just go and look at saying, what did he actually say? No, he definitely was. He was definitely saying, you know, look, he I don't think he has the time to go into things very deeply. Yeah, and so I think he could probably be influenced by a bunch of people like these Marjorie Taylor Greene type people who come to him with some wild-ass theory. True, he might be. And I think there's a lot of that stuff that gets fed to people on purpose so that they'll say incorrect things so that they're easy to dismiss. And I think there's also a lot of people that just make up, and you know, they tell you the Earth is flat, and then a bunch of people watch a YouTube video and they believe it. Yeah, well, but on that White House Correspondents' Dinner, I was there, and the degree to which they attacked Trump in that dinner was really over the top. It was making everyone uncomfortable. Really, it was really over the top. You know, I mean, I think like a passing joke or a few passing jokes are fine, but they twisted the knife big on Trump in that, and you could see Trump just getting angrier and angrier and more and more upset. I wonder if, and it's like, man, this is not good karma. That's what I was thinking at the time. I was two tables away from Trump, and I'm looking, I'm like, man, this is too much. Well, it's kind of crazy what they made out of that, because that's the kind of guy that if you tell him he can't do something, he's going to just keep trying. What a big mistake to rag on him so much with that White House Correspondents' Dinner. Well, just look at the way they've attacked him in terms of using the legal system, like this thing in New York where the 34 different felony counts.

这些本质上都是轻罪，是记账错误。他们决定起诉他，即使诉讼时效已过。他们没有认定重罪。这是滥用法律。但大多数人早就放弃了。在 E. Jean Carroll 诉讼、这个诉讼、叛乱事件、佐治亚事件、被推特封号之后——大多数人会说，‘这太过分了，我受不了了。’但他太疯狂了，他说，‘好吧，来吧，我们要开战。’他只是坚持己见，继续前进。

They were essentially misdemeanors, bookkeeping errors. They decided to try him for these even though the statute of limitations had passed. They didn't identify a felony. Abuse of the law is what's going on. But most people would have quit. After the E. Jean Carroll lawsuit, this lawsuit, the insurrection thing, the Georgia thing, getting kicked off Twitter—most people would say, 'This is too much, I can't take this.' But he's so crazy, he's like, 'All right, come on, we're going to war.' He just digs his heels in and keeps going.

是的，他们找错了对象。在白宫记者晚宴上攻击他——大多数人会感到羞辱。他生气了，他说，‘好吧，我会当总统。我已经考虑竞选大约 15 年了。终于，我要参选了。’

Yeah, it's the wrong guy to do that to. Just attacking him at the White House Correspondents' Dinner—most people would have been humiliated. He got angry, he's like, 'Yeah, all right, say I'll be president. I've been thinking about running for about 15 years. Finally, I'm going to run.'

是的，那真是糟糕的一步。但我当然能理解开些玩笑，对特朗普开几个随口的玩笑。但天哪，我当时在那场晚宴上，他们拿特朗普开涮得太厉害了，简直疯了。

Yeah, that was a real bad move. But I can certainly understand making some jokes, a few passing jokes on Trump. But man, I was there at that dinner, and they ragged on Trump so much, it was insane.

我之所以反驳，是因为有很多不同的演讲者，对吧？特朗普显然会成为目标。如果他们都攻击他，那是因为他……如果你要取笑观众，尤其是时代精神，整个出生地阴谋论当时很热门。大多数人认为那是个荒谬的阴谋论。所以这家伙是谁，说这种话？所以有八到十个演讲者在写独白。他们当然都会攻击特朗普。

The reason I would push back on that is there were a bunch of different speakers, right? Trump would obviously be a target. If they all attacked him, it's because he's... if you're going to make fun of people in the audience, especially the zeitgeist, that whole birther thing was big. Most people dismissed it as a ridiculous conspiracy theory. So who is this guy saying this? So you have eight to ten individual speakers writing monologues. Of course they're all going to hit Trump.

是的，显然是个错误。他们不应该那样做。但如果你让人们看原始素材，我觉得开几个玩笑没问题。但感觉他是被调侃的主要对象，这不是重点。这是对总统的调侃，不是对观众的调侃。

Yeah, well, obviously it was a mistake. They shouldn't have done that. But if you buy people to watch that original source material, I think a few jokes are fine. But it felt like he was the primary object of the roast, which is not the whole point. It's a roast of the president, not a roast of the audience.

问题是，他很容易被调侃。而且，奥巴马深受左派喜爱。那些人大多是左派。你能调侃的程度有限。你不能问他关于厨师的事。你知道，就像，‘那个厨师怎么了，兄弟？’有些事你不能提。‘你最喜欢的运动是什么？桨板？’那家伙不是游泳很厉害吗？告诉我发生了什么。你不能提那个。如果你要调侃希拉里，你不能提死亡人数。比如，‘希拉里，保持联系的最好方式是什么？电子邮件？’如果你做那种事，你知道，她销毁了服务器，还倒了漂白剂。就像电脑一样。她倒了漂白剂。我亲眼所见。不只是用锤子砸。他们销毁了它，以至于完全无法进行取证。里面有什么？我就是这个意思。里面有什么？他们为什么那么在意？太疯狂了。

The thing about it is, he's easy to roast. And on top of that, Obama was loved and cherished by the left. Most of those people are on the left. There's only so far you can push. You can't ask him about a chef. You know, like, 'What happened with the chef, bro?' You can't bring up certain things. 'What's your favorite sport? Paddle boarding?' Wasn't that guy a really good swimmer? Tell me what happened. You can't bring that up. If you're going to roast Hillary, you can't bring up the death count. Like, 'Hillary, what's the best way to stay in touch? Email?' If you're doing one of those, you know, she destroyed the servers and poured bleach on them. Like computers. She poured bleach on them. That's what I saw. It wasn't just like they took a hammer to it. They destroyed it so there was no possible way to get forensics on it. What was in there? That's what I mean. What was in there? Why would they care so much? That's so crazy.

是的，整件事就是没有针对那件事采取法律行动，这显然是销毁证据。

Yeah, the whole thing is there was no legal action against that, which is clear destruction of evidence.

嗯，还有另一个说法总是让我抓狂：他要摧毁民主。所以为了摧毁民主，我们必须在没有初选的情况下任命一位总统。我们必须有一个有史以来最不受欢迎的副总统候选人，有史以来最不受欢迎的副总统，然后利用煤气灯效应和媒体机器的全力把她塑造成未来和希望。然后我们要……她将带来改变，尽管她是在任副总统。而且，当民主党已经掌权 12 或 16 年的时候，这种改变的想法？对吧，这太疯狂了。就像，这就是改变？

Well, it's also this other narrative that always drives me crazy: that he's going to destroy democracy. So in order to destroy democracy, we have to install a president without a primary. We have to have a candidate that is the least liked vice president of all time, the least popular vice president of all time, and then use gaslighting and the full force of the media machine to turn her into the future and hope. And then we're going to... this she's going to be change, even though she's a sitting vice president. And on top of that, this idea of change when the Democrats have been in control for what, 12 or 16 years? Right, which is crazy. Like, this is the change?

是的，我的意思是，显然我把这次选举视为一个转折点，就像命运的分岔路口，极其重要。在这次选举之前，我从未积极参与政治。我这次积极参与政治的原因是我认为如果我们不选特朗普，我们将失去这个国家的民主。我们将失去两党制。让我解释原因。只有六七个摇摆州。这些州的获胜差距很小，通常只有 1 万或 2 万票。民主党政府一直在做的是将大量非法移民引入摇摆州。你可以在政府官方网站上查看数字。你不必相信我的话。只需查看政府报告的数字，而政府是由民主党控制的。我们看到每个摇摆州的非法移民数量都出现了三位数的增长。在某些情况下，增长了 700%。这些数字非常巨大。所以如果你有一个州有 1 万或 2 万票的差距，而你往那个州投入 20 万非法移民，你就把差距扩大了 10 倍。你淹没了它。它不再是摇摆州了。它会投给民主党。一旦摇摆州投给民主党，就不再有什么选举了。只有民主党初选。这太疯狂了，而且人们对此无动于衷，这太疯狂了。

Yeah, I mean, obviously I view this election as a turning point, like a fork in the road of destiny that is incredibly important. I've not been politically active until this election. The reason I've been politically active this election is because I think if we don't elect Trump, we will lose democracy in this country. We will lose the two-party system. Let me explain why. There are only six or seven swing states. The margin of victory in those states is small, often like 10 or 20,000 votes. What the Democrat administration has been doing is importing vast numbers of illegals into swing states. You can look at the numbers on the actual government website. You don't have to take my word for it. Just look at the numbers as reported by the government, which is controlled by the Democrats. What we've seen is triple-digit increases in the number of illegals in every swing state. In some cases, 700% increases. These are gigantic numbers. So if you have a state that had a 10 or 20,000 vote margin, and you put 200,000 illegals into that state, you 10x the margin. You swamp it. It's not a swing state anymore. It's going to vote blue. And once the swing states vote blue, there is no election anymore. There's only a Democrat primary. Which is so crazy, and it's so crazy that people are fine with that.

嗯，我想左派的人会对此无动于衷，因为他们认为这是个好主意。他们只想赢。没错。

Well, I guess people on the left will be fine with that because they think that's a good idea. They just want to win. Correct.

问题是，这不需要任何宏大阴谋论。你只需看看简单的激励因素。如果民主党想要获胜，实现永久胜利，他们所要做的就是让摇摆州变蓝。他们就能永久胜利，然后我们就成了一党制国家。然后他们显然会继续这样做。他们会继续通过将大量非法移民引入摇摆州来操纵局势，不断加码，使每次选举都比上一次更糟。这就是正在发生的事情。如果你想看看这是否真的会发生，看看加州。加州是绝对多数民主党，70% 是民主党。一个月前，他们通过了一项法律，规定在加州任何选举中出示身份证都是非法的。所以我一个朋友去帕洛阿尔托投票，他心想，‘这是真的吗？’他试图出示身份证，他们的反应就像你向吸血鬼展示十字架一样。他们说，‘不，我们甚至不能看那个身份证。’即使你想出示，他们看你的身份证也是违法的。在加州，任何选举，甚至市议会选举，都是如此。除了作弊，还有什么合乎逻辑的理由？

The thing is, one does not need any grand conspiracy theory for this. You just have to look at the simple matter of incentives. If the Democrat Party wants to win, to achieve permanent victory, all they need to do is turn the swing states blue. They have permanent victory, and then we're a one-party state. Then they will keep doing that, obviously. They will keep stacking the deck by bringing in vast numbers of illegals into the swing states, keep stacking it so that each successive election will be worse than the last. And that's what's happening. If you want to see if this is actually going to happen, look at California. California is super majority Dem, 70% Dem. A month ago, they passed a law making it illegal to show ID in any election in California. So a friend of mine went to vote in Palo Alto because he was like, 'Is this for real?' He tried to show his ID, and they reacted like if you show a cross to a vampire. They're like, 'No, we can't even look at that ID.' It is illegal for them to even look at your ID if you want to present it. In California, for any election at all, even city council. What logical reason, other than to cheat?

你见过那种法律吗？它的目的就是为了作弊。这是你唯一能得出的结论。我认为 84% 的受访者认为投票应该出示身份证，所以这违背了民意。是的，我们非常清楚，不要求身份证是个异类。基本上，地球上每个国家都要求投票时出示身份证。所以一旦你禁止投票时查验身份证，欺诈就无法被证明，因为你如何追踪欺诈？对吧。这太疯狂了。太疯狂了。太疯狂了。我的意思是，这怎么可能是合法的？这次选举是美国民主的最后机会。记住我的话。他们指控特朗普的一切，他们自己都犯了。如果特朗普不赢，这将是美国最后一次真正的选举。如果卡马拉傀儡机器赢了，他们会让摇摆州的非法移民合法化。将不再有摇摆州。以后的每一次选举都将是民主党稳赢，而且会比加州更糟。比加州更糟的原因是，加州之所以还没彻底疯狂，是因为你可以搬出加州，就像你和我做的那样。我们以前在加州，搬到了得克萨斯。我们还在美国。但如果民主党赢了这次选举，他们会把足够多的非法移民合法化，从而改变摇摆州，每个地方都会变得像加州一样。无处可逃。这太疯狂了。这是最后的机会。就是现在。这是最后的机会。有人尝试过推动吗？出去投票。投票，就像你的生命依赖于它。投票，就像你的未来依赖于它，因为它确实如此。这是最后的机会，老兄。

Would you ever have that law? The reason is to cheat. That's the only argument you can make any other way. And I think 84% of people polled believe that you should show ID to vote, so it's against the will of the people. Yes, and we are extremely aware we're an outlier in not requiring ID. Basically, almost every country on Earth requires ID to vote. So as soon as you ban ID for voting, it makes fraud impossible to prove because how do you trace the fraud? Right. It's insane. It's insane. It's insane. And what I'm saying is, how is it legal? This election is the last chance to preserve democracy in America. Mark my words. Everything they accuse Trump of, they are guilty of. And if Trump doesn't win, this will be the last real election in America. And if the Kamala puppet machine wins, they will legalize the illegals in the swing states. There will be no swing states. Every election going forward will be a guaranteed Democrat win, and it'll actually be worse than California. The reason it'll be worse than California is that the one thing that keeps California from being super crazy is that you can move out of California, like you and I did. We used to be in California, we moved to Texas. We're still in America. But if the Dems win this election, they will legalize enough illegals to turn the swing states, and everywhere will be like California. There will be no escape. That is so insane. This is the final chance. This is it. This is the last chance. Has anybody tried to push? Go out and vote. Vote like your life depends on it. Vote like your future depends on it, because it does. This is the last chance, man.

对此有任何反对意见吗？有人试图辩论过吗？有人试图说这是胡说八道，是阴谋论吗？有人提出过任何理性的论点吗？

Is there any argument against this? Has anybody tried to debate this? Has anybody tried to say that this is nonsense, this is a conspiracy? Has anybody made any sort of a rational argument?

有趣的是，左派实际上不想过多讨论这个论点，因为你越关注它，越审视它，它就越明显是真实的。因为你只需问，数字正确吗？真的有这么多非法移民被运进摇摆州吗？是的。他们不只是走过边境。他们一直在涌入，乘坐飞机涌入。是的，用一款运输应用程序。是的。这个应用程序一直存在，但以前是用来给来这里的人用的，比如运输货物，这样他们可以在你在美国时追踪你，让你合法地待在这里。他们知道你在哪里。然后他们改变了它，允许这个应用程序安排非法移民穿越边境。是的。寻求庇护者，进来吧。是的。哦，你有个应用程序。人们真的被空运进来，是的，到摇摆州。我认为左派不想反驳的原因是，这件事越受关注，越多人意识到它是真的。这是真的。这就是为什么他们不反驳。他们只是在假装。他们假装我什么都没说。但我说，嘿，他们真的在空运大量非法移民，这些人随后就受制于民主党。有时我会遇到一些人的反驳，他们说，这些非法移民没有民主党的社会价值观，因为他们更社会保守。我说，是的，但这不是重点。如果你看马斯洛需求层次，他们的首要任务是留在美国，并把朋友和家人弄进来。然后民主党给他们所有这些福利，大量的福利，比公民还多。真的，是的。所以他们因为所有这些福利而受制于民主党。他们想把朋友和家人弄进来，民主党支持，共和党反对。所以他们投民主党。你可以凭经验看看加州，他们在加州投共和党还是民主党？哦，他们投了民主党。里根在 1980 年代给了他们大赦，那基本上改变了这个州，除了阿诺德。把整个州变成了蓝色。是的。阿诺德是个例外，因为他是个社会自由派的名人，而且没有对本来就会投民主党的人施加任何激进的限制。整件事看起来很奇怪，因为感觉这不可能是真的。

The left actually interestingly does not want to pick up much on this argument because the more attention you look, the more you look at it, the more obviously it is true. Because you just say, well, are the numbers correct? Have there really been this many illegals that have been imported into swing states? Yes. They haven't just walked across the border. They've been flowing in, flowing in in airplanes. Yeah, using a shipping app. Yes. The app always existed, but it used to be for people coming over here like shipping with goods, so they could track you while you're in America, so you could legally be here. They know where you are. And then they changed it to allow that app to schedule illegal aliens to come across the border. Yes. Asylum seekers, come on in. Yes. Oh, you have an app. People are literally being flown in, yeah, to the swing states. And the reason I think the left doesn't want to push back on this is because the more attention this gets, the more people realize it is true. It is true. That's why they don't. They're just pretending. They're pretending I'm not saying anything. But I'm like, yo, they're literally flying vast numbers of illegals who are then beholden to the Democrats. And sometimes I get a bit of pushback from people saying, well, you know, these illegals don't have the same social values as the Democrat Party because they're more socially conservative. I'm like, yeah, but that's not the point. If you look at Maslow's hierarchy of needs, their primary thing is staying in the country and getting their friends and family in. And then the Democrats give them all these benefits, like tons of benefits, more benefits than if you were citizens. Literally, yeah. So they are beholden to the Democrats for all these benefits. They want to get their friends and family in, which the Democrats support and the Republicans don't. So they vote Democrat. And you can look empirically at California and say, did they vote Republican or Democrat in California? Oh, they voted Democrat. Well, Reagan gave them amnesty in the 1980s, and that changed the state basically, except for Arnold. Changed the state entirely blue. Yes. And Arnold was an exception because he was like a socially liberal famous guy, yeah, and didn't really impose any radical restrictions on any of the people that were going to vote Democrat in the first place. The whole thing is just bizarre to watch play out because it just seems like this can't actually be what's happening.

你看到我和弗里德曼的对话了吗？他完全否认这一点。我不认为有那种组织水平。你在说什么？没错。因为你可以分解来看。这些数字有错吗？因为我们从国土安全部、政府网站得到这些数字。好的，没错。所以我们从 .gov 网站得到这些数字。政府报告这些数字有误吗？不，没有。这些数字，如果说有什么，是偏低的。所以，好的，他们确实空运了大量非法移民到摇摆州，完全绕过了边境。这是事实。然后你说，他们可能的投票模式是什么？压倒性地投民主党。进入摇摆州。然后，但民主党真的想让他们快速获得公民身份吗？哦，是的。你可以看到查克·舒默今年在一次集会上在电视上说，他想快速处理，让所有 1100 万或多少，我相信他的原话是，尽快成为公民。所以目标是尽快加快公民身份，这样他们就能投票。无论有人认为这是否作弊，都不重要，因为他们将完全能够投票。对于左派的人来说，这确实在发生。我邀请人们反驳这一点，并指出我哪里错了。请这样做。不，他们不能。他们不能。他们不能，因为这是真的。

Did you see my conversation with Friedman about it? He was completely in denial about it. I don't think there's that level of organization. What are you talking about? Exactly. Because you can break it down. Are any of these numbers wrong? Because we got these numbers from Homeland Security, government.gov. Okay, right. So we got it from the .gov website. Has the government reported these numbers incorrectly? No, they have not. Those numbers, if anything, are low. So okay, so they have in fact flown vast numbers of illegals to swing states, bypassing the border entirely. And that is factually true. Then you say, well, what is their probable voting pattern? Overwhelmingly Democrat. Into swing states. And then, well, but do the Democrats actually want to fast-track them for citizenship? Oh, yes. You can see Chuck Schumer on TV at a rally this year saying he wants to fast-track and make all 11 million or however many, I believe his quote was, citizens as soon as possible. So the goal is to fast-track citizenship as quickly as possible so they can vote. Whether one thinks it's cheating or not, it won't matter because they will be fully able to vote. And for people on the left, this is actually happening. I invite people to rebut this and show me where I am wrong. Please do so. No, they can't. They can't. They can't because it's true.

嗯，让我害怕的是，左派中有些人，比如曾是伯尼·桑德斯支持者的人。搞砸了，就像谈论破坏民主一样。伯尼本应赢得提名，但他们从他那里偷走了，给了希拉里。没错。没错。这正是我想提的。他们控制了初选过程。是的，没错。所以如果你有一个民主党初选，它并不民主。我们刚刚看到了。我们在伯尼身上看到了。我们在卡马拉身上看到了。就在拜登被突然解雇前一周，他还在发帖说他长期参与。他继续。是的，是的。他不会放弃。接下来，周日下午，他们在 X 上发帖说他退出了竞选。这太疯狂了。

Well, what's scary to me is that there are people on the left, like people that were Bernie Sanders supporters, for example. Screwed with, like talk about undermining democracy. Bernie should have won the nomination, and they stole it from him and gave it to Hillary. Exactly. Exactly. That's what I was going to bring up. They control the primary process. Yes, exactly. So if you have a Democratic primary, it's not democratic. We just saw that. We saw it with Bernie. We saw it with Kamala. Like a week before Biden was summarily fired, he was posting that he's in it for the long term. He's going. Yeah, yeah. He's not giving up. Next thing you know, Sunday afternoon, they're posting on X that he's resigned from the race. Which is insane.

他的幕僚甚至都不知道，他们是在 X 平台上看到的。他们就是这样得知的。你觉得发生了什么？他们是怎么做到的？因为很明显，他根本不在掌控之中。显然，他们本可以动用第 25 修正案，弄个假总统，但他们必须承认，有一段时间他们知道他精神上出了问题。是的，所以他们决定不这么做。

His staff didn't even know; they're reading it on the X platform. That's how they learned about it. What do you think happened there? How did they do that? Because clearly, he's just not in charge. Obviously, they could have used the 25th Amendment, fake president, but they would have to admit that there was a certain period of time where they knew that he was mentally compromised. Yes, and so they made this decision not to do that.

嗯，奇怪的是，总统应该是老板，对吧？但他显然不是老板。那谁在管理国家？如果她忙着竞选，她忙得除了坐等什么也做不了。她确实那样做了。她忙得一直在竞选。你怎么可能关注国际关系？是啊，你怎么可能关注经济？你怎么可能关注那些事情？你怎么有时间？你做不到。是的，我的意思是，拜登作为总统应该是 CEO，是老大，他是三军统帅。但很明显拜登不是；他只是一个傀儡。当各种傀儡大师决定这个傀儡不再有用时，他们就把傀儡扔了，然后换了一个新傀儡，就是卡玛拉。我是说，卡玛拉连话都说不清楚。

Well, the weird thing is that the president's supposed to be the boss, right? And yet he's obviously not the boss. So who's running the country? If she's busy campaigning, she's so busy she can't do anything except sit life. She did that. She's so busy she's constantly campaigning. How could you be paying attention to international relations? Yeah, how could you be paying attention to the economy? How could you be paying attention to any of those things? How do you have the time? You can't. Yeah, I mean, Biden being the president's supposed to be the CEO, the chief guy, he was commander-in-chief. But it just obviously that Biden was not; he was just a puppet. And when the various puppet masters decided that the puppet was no longer useful, they just tossed out the puppet and then got a new puppet with Kamala. I mean, Kamala can't even talk.

现在你邀请她上你的节目。我认为对一个竞选活动可能造成的最大损害就是上你的节目，看看她在第二、第三个小时说了什么。第二、第三个小时事情就变得有趣了。我就想，天哪，你可以躲 20 分钟。融化，你可以躲 20 分钟。没错，是的。我的意思是，你可以重复半小时、也许一小时的谈话要点，她说的都是些不连贯的话。但最终她连不连贯的话都说不出来了。

Now you invited her on your show. I think the most damage that could possibly be done to a campaign is going on your show and seeing what she says in hours two and three. Two and three is when things get spicy. I'm like, oh my God, you can hide for 20 minutes. Melt, you can hide for 20 minutes. Exactly, yeah. I mean, you can just regurgitate talking points for half an hour, maybe an hour, just where she's just saying non sequiturs. But eventually she just runs out of even the non sequiturs.

嗯，他们想限制在一小时，正是这个原因。但我最初考虑在特朗普来之前就做。首先，当他们发现有传言时，我从未宣布特朗普要来。我打算做的是直接发布……我喜欢的方式是，我不告诉任何人谁要来。无论如何都会火。如果特朗普上了，那会非常轰动。我就想，直接放出去，人们会疯狂的。但他显然，或者他组织里的某个人，嘴不严，消息就泄露了。于是她联系了我的管理公司，她的竞选团队联系我们说，乔愿意让拉娜上吗？我说愿意。他们说她想让你飞到她那里，而且她只愿意做 45 分钟，只有 40 分钟。我是说，那……我就想，我不知道。所以我考虑过做。我想，也许我能了解一下，也许我能说服她，也许我能哄她多花点时间。我只是想和她谈谈。我不在乎我们谈什么，我们谈食谱都行。我不在乎……没错，就是和你聊聊。只是有些事你做不到……你不能连续三个小时只说不连贯的话，对吧？嗯，所以 45 分钟的话，你可以……呃，我想也许 45 分钟我能从中得到点什么。但后来特朗普来了，做了三个小时，我就想，你知道，必须这样。这是唯一……公平地说，必须三个小时，而且应该在这个房间，因为这个房间有历史感。是啊，它有好氛围。

Well, they wanted to limit it to an hour, exactly that's why. But I was thinking of doing it initially before Trump came here. First of all, when they found out that there was a rumor, I never announced that Trump was coming. What I was going to do is just release it in my... the way I like to do things, I don't like to tell anybody who's coming on. It'll get big no matter what. If Trump was on, it would have been huge. I'm like, just put it out there, people go crazy. But he apparently, or someone from his organization, some loose lips, and then it got out. And so she contacted my management company, and her campaign contacted us and said, would Joe have Rana? I said yes. And they said she wants you to fly to where she is, and she's only willing to do 45 minutes, only 40. I mean, that's... and I was like, I don't know. So I thought about doing it. I'm like, maybe I can get a sense, maybe I could convince her, maybe I could coax her into doing more time. I just wanted to talk to her. I don't give a what we talk about, we talk about recipes. I don't give a... exactly, just talk to you. Just the things like you just can't... like you can't just output non sequiturs for three hours, right? Um, so but for 45 minutes, you could do... uh, I thought maybe for 45 minutes I could get something out of it. But then when Trump came and did the 3 hours, I was like, you know what, it has to be like this. This is the only... to be fair, it's got to be like three hours, and it should be in this room because this room has like a history of people. Yeah, it's got good vibes.

是啊，嗯，实际上，我认同地方有记忆这个观点。我觉得这有点道理。这就是为什么它确实有那种感觉。是啊，我敢肯定如果你去 Diddy 的房子，可能会感觉非常奇怪。在那房子里走来走去感觉怪怪的，大概就像，这里发生了什么？是啊，我打赌那房子里有些记忆。听起来很糟糕，老兄。

Yeah, well, actually, I subscribe to the idea that places have memory. I think there's something real to that. That's why it does feel that way, actually. Yeah, I'm sure if you go to Diddy's house, probably feels real weird. Feels weird walking around that house, probably like, what the happened here? Yeah, I bet there's some memories in that house. Sounds rough, man.

嗯，真是令人惊讶，Diddy 派对名单上有那么多人支持卡玛拉。是啊，真的，公开地，全力支持。是的，比如 JLo，她是他的前女友，现在她决定警告人们反对特朗普。我就想，嗯，等等。她警告过多少人反对 Diddy？哦，零个。好吧，嗯，也许我们不应该相信她的意见。你看到 Babylon Bee 的报道了吗？你看到 Babylon Bee 了吗？哦天哪，他们火力全开，因为左派什么都不能说。The Onion 已经被削弱了。嗯，问题是，觉醒意识形态让幽默变得非法。是的，所以有很多无幽默禁飞区，对吧？你不能拿任何事开玩笑。是啊，Babylon Bee 有个关于卡玛拉·哈里斯的段子：Diddy 的前女友敦促美国人相信她的判断。是啊，顺便说一句，你也能看到她有多糟糕。Terry 是不是，如果她要警告人们，为什么她从未警告过任何人关于 Diddy 的事？没错。是啊，整件事看起来很奇怪。似乎 Diddy 事件像 Epstein 式的妥协交易，他是否自己做的，人们可能认为他与某个情报机构有关联之类的。我认为他是一个赚了十亿美元的黑帮分子，知道如何通过妥协来控制人。这是我的看法。他是否有帮助，我不知道。他是否与别人分享了一些信息，让他们知道他们掌握了别人的把柄，我不知道。但很明显，他也是为了自己的快感。这其中有病态的东西。是啊，嗯，我的意思是，但问题是，音乐娱乐行业的人一定知道 Diddy 基本上在虐待儿童。嗯，但他们还是给他送孩子。比如，账目在哪里？一定有传言。一定有。他们一定知道。是啊，他们一定知道。Cat Williams 在谈论这个，就在……是啊，在那个播客上。但就像，谁给他们送孩子？你知道，对吧？是啊，他们有什么这些人的视频，以至于他们愿意为他辩护，愿意对这一切保持沉默？比如，有多少人被妥协了？是啊，整件事很疯狂。疯狂。只是当你……你知道，那些疯狂的阴谋论说，哦，好莱坞有一堆恋童癖，你会想，得了吧，这听起来太古怪了。然后你读到，你看到像 Nickelodeon 的事情和所有这些，你会想，这他妈的……有多少是真的？比我认为人们意识到的要多得多。嗯，我的意思是，部分原因是，就像你说的，你知道如果有人是恋童癖，他们会去一个目标丰富的环境，对吧？显然。比如英国那个 Jimmy Saville 家伙，那家伙是另一个层次的。那是另一个层次的。BBC 试图掩盖这一点。那家伙是有史以来最糟糕的……基本上是有史以来最严重的儿童强奸犯之一。有史以来。有史以来。是啊，而且看起来就像。看起来就像。

Well, it's just amazing how many people in the Diddy party list that are supporting Kamala. Yeah, seriously, it's publicly openly, like all in. Yes, it's like JLo, like was his ex-girlfriend, and it's like now deciding she's like warning people against Trump. I'm like, well, wait a second. So how many people did she warn against Diddy? Oh, zero. Okay, well, uh, maybe we shouldn't trust her opinion. Did you see the Babylon Bee take on it? Did you see the Babylon Bee? Oh my God, they're so on fire because the left can't say anything. The Onion has been crippled. Well, the problem is that the woke ideology makes humor illegal. Yes, so when there's like so many no-humor no-fly zones, right? You can't make fun of anything. Yeah, Babylon Bee had a thing about Kamala Harris: Diddy's ex-girlfriend urges Americans to trust her judgment. Yeah, by the way, you get to see how bad she is too. Was Terry like, if she's going to be warning people, why did she never warn anyone about Diddy? Exactly. Yeah, the whole thing is so strange to watch play out. It seems like the Diddy thing was like an Epstein-type compromise deal where he had... whether he was doing it himself, conceivably people want to think that he's attached to some intelligence agency or something like that. I think he's a gangster who made a billion dollars and knew how to control people by compromising them. That's what I think. Whether or not he had help, I don't know. Whether or not he shared some of that information with people so they knew they had compromising stuff on people, I don't know. But clearly, he was doing it for his own jollies too. There was something sick about it. Yeah, um, I mean, but the thing is that people in the music entertainment industry had to know that Diddy was like abusing kids, basically. Um, and yet they still fed him kids. Like, where's the account? There had to be rumors. There had to be. They had to know. Yeah, they had to know. Cat Williams is talking about it on exactly... yeah, on that podcast. But like, who's feeding them the kids? You know, right? Yeah, and what videos do they have of these people where they're willing to defend him and they're willing to keep quiet about all this? Like, how many people were compromised? Yeah, the whole thing is crazy. Crazy. It's just crazy when you... you know, the nutty conspiracy theories is like, oh, there's a bunch of pedophiles in Hollywood, and you're like, come on, that sounds too kooky. And then you read, you see like the Nickelodeon thing and all these, you're like, what the... how much of this is real? There's a lot more real than I think people realize. Um, I mean, part of it is like, like you say, like where you know if someone's like a pedophile, they're going to go for a target-rich environment, right? Obviously. Like that Jimmy Saville guy from the UK, that guy was some next level. That was next level. And the BBC tried to hide that. What that guy was one of the worst like... like basically child rapists of all time. Of all time. Of all time. Yeah, and looked like one. It looked like one.

老实说，如果你有一张海报，比如，这家伙看起来像个变态吗？最 creepy 的家伙，邪恶的儿童强奸犯，100% 带着秘密进了坟墓，逍遥法外直到死，他们一直瞒着大家直到他死。是的，没错，这种事是真实的，没人愿意相信它是真的。这里有一个人们在考虑非法移民时需要思考的统计数据：你知道有多少孩子失踪吗？有多少穿越边境的儿童下落不明？我看到一个数字，大概是 30 万左右，类似这种疯狂的数字。就算只有 10%，那也够离谱的。是啊，太离谱了。可能有成千上万的孩子被贩卖。当你明白性贩卖和儿童贩卖在这个世界上是真实存在的，它就是真的。是啊，所以如果你知道这些，整件事就令人作呕和恐惧。没错，绝对是这样。而人们却视而不见，因为他们的意识形态——左翼意识形态——支持移民总体上是好的这种观点，你必须富有同情心才能让这些人进来，如果你不希望 2 万来自战乱国家的移民被引进一个只有 3 万人的小镇，你就是种族主义者，完全改变了社区动态。但只要他们不来你的小镇，就没事。他们只是把人送过去。你知道，当他们把 20 或 30 个人送到玛莎葡萄园时，人们心脏病都犯了，把他们赶走了。是啊，他们赶走了。没错。所以我就想，是啊，当然。任何想要大量非法移民的人都必须准备好让他们住在自己社区。是啊，否则就太疯狂了。而这一切的关键是，如果没有愿意站出来谈论这件事的人，如果你不存在，如果 RFK 不存在，如果 Tulsi Gabbard 不存在，如果 Vivek 和 Trump 不存在，我们他妈的会在哪里？我们在哪里？又能做成什么？我们会像英国那样，成千上万的人因为社交媒体帖子被捕入狱吗？我们在哪里？我们完全压制了任何异议。任何事，你必须遵循叙事，否则就会失去生计，被社区排斥，失去自由。太疯狂了。是啊。好吧，如果 Kamala 傀儡政权赢了，他们肯定会想封杀你，这是肯定的。哦，当然，100%。这会是个问题。是啊，大问题。你呢？他们会先来找你。我觉得我大概是名单上的第二名，在 Trump 之后。是啊，我也这么想。是啊。好吧，他们最不想要的就是一个拥有无限资源和智慧的人来攻击它。所以人们会想，等等，那家伙在说这个？是啊，等等。尤其是像你这样的人，一直站在左派，在洛杉矶拥有一辆 Tesla。当我拿到第一辆 Tesla 时，那就像是在向其他人发出信号，表明你站在正确的一边。当然，你有环保意识，你相信绿色能源，你相信可再生能源，这个了不起的东西零排放，速度超快，每个人都投入其中，他们都投入了。

Honestly, if you had a poster of like, does this guy look like a creep? The creepiest guy, evil child rapist that 100% made it to the grave, got away with it until he died, they hid it from people until he died. Yes, yeah, that stuff's real and no one wants to believe that stuff's real. Here's a statistic that people need to take into consideration when you think about illegal immigration: do you know how many kids are missing? How many missing kids that came across the border that are unaccounted for? I mean, I saw a number like 300,000 or something like that, something crazy like that. Let's say it's only 10% of that, that's still insane. Yeah, that's insane. There's thousands and tens of thousands of kids that have been trafficked potentially. I mean, when you know that sex trafficking and child trafficking is a real thing in the world, it's real. Yeah, so if you know that, this whole thing is disgusting and terrifying. Yeah, absolutely. And people are just turning a blind eye to it because their ideology, the left-wing ideology, supports this idea that immigration is overall good and that you have to be a compassionate person to let these people in, and you're racist if you don't want 20,000 immigrants from a war-torn country being imported into a town of 30,000 people, exactly, and completely changing the dynamic. But as long as they don't come to your town, that's it. They just send people. You know, when they sent like 20 or 30 people to Martha's Vineyard, people had a heart attack, they kicked them out. Yeah, they kicked them out. Exactly. So I'm like, yeah, sure. Anyone who wants to have vast numbers of illegals has to be prepared to have them in their neighborhood. Yeah, or it's so crazy. And the thing about all of this is, if you don't have people that are willing to stand up and talk about it, if you don't exist, if RFK doesn't exist, if Tulsi Gabbard doesn't exist, if Vivek and Trump don't exist, where the hell are we? Where are we? And what gets done? Are we just like the UK, where we have thousands of people getting arrested and jailed for social media posts? Like, where are we? We have complete silencing of any dissent. Anything, you have to stick to the narrative or you'll lose your livelihood, you'll be outcast from the community, you lose your freedom. It's crazy. Yeah. Well, if the Kamala puppet regime wins, they're definitely going to want to cancel you, that's for sure. Oh, for sure, yeah, 100%. It's going to be a problem. Yeah, big problem. Yeah. What about you? They're going to come for you first. I'm like, I think I'm probably number two on the list, yeah, after Trump. Yeah, yeah, I think so. Yeah. Well, that's the last thing they want is someone with unlimited resources and intelligence attacking it. So people go, wait a minute, that guy's saying that? Yeah, wait a minute. Especially a guy like you who's always been on the left, who was like having a Tesla in Los Angeles. When I got my first Tesla, it was like a signal to everybody else that you were on the right team. Sure, you're environmentally conscious, you believe in green energy, you believe in renewables, this amazing thing that has zero emissions and it's super fast, and everybody was in, they were all in.

好吧，客观来说，这是一款很棒的车。哦，是啊，是啊。你知道，不是因为它是电动的才买。我的意思是，客观来说它就是一款很棒的车。我想这是我的第三辆了。我的第三辆正在由 Unplugged Performance 打造。他们正在给它装碳纤维宽体套件，老兄，太酷了。很棒，换了悬挂，装了宽轮和轮胎，定制内饰。我超兴奋。太好了。我超兴奋。我爱那些车。它超级好玩。Jam 也有一辆。是啊，我爱它们。它让其他车显得很蠢。比如它的能力，还有你在高速上并线时，完全不会像个混蛋，因为它完全静音。不像你在高速上并线时，突然就开到 100 英里每小时。就像，什么？是啊，那很酷。它和其他任何车都不一样。而且因为你的公司，现在你在整个美国汽车系列中都能看到电动车。是啊，唯一抵制的人，唯一的公司是丰田。他们基本上还是以混动为主。但其他所有公司都在推出电动车。是啊，是啊。我的意思是，关键在于，汽车的正确架构，不管环保与否，实际上是电动的。就像，加速更好。你可以在家充电。我的意思是，想象一下如果你有一个汽油驱动的手机，那会很麻烦，对吧？你知道，那会是，去加油站，给手机充电。说得好。说到手机，加油站太糟糕了。谁会想去加油站？

Well, it is a great car objectively. Oh, yeah, yeah. You know, it's not buy it because it's electric. I mean, it's just a great car objectively. I think I'm on my third one. My third one is being built right now by Unplugged Performance. They're doing a carbon fiber widebody kit on it, dude, it's sick. Great, changing the suspension, putting wide wheels and tires on it, custom interior. I'm pumped. That's great. I'm pumped. I love those. It's a super fun car. Jam has one too. Yeah, I love them. I love them. It makes other cars feel stupid. Like its ability and the fact that you can merge on the highway, you don't seem like a douchebag because it's totally silent. It's not like when you merge on the highway, just all of a sudden you're going 100 miles an hour. Like, what? Yeah, that's cool. It's different than any other vehicle. And because of your company, now you see electric cars throughout the whole range of American cars. Yeah, the only person who's resisted, the only company is Toyota. They've stayed essentially mostly hybrid. But all these other companies, they're all putting out these electric cars. Yeah, yeah. I mean, the thing is that the right architecture, environmental or not, for cars is actually electric. You just, it's like the acceleration is better. You can just charge it at home. I mean, imagine if you had a gasoline-powered cell phone, it'd be a pain in the ass, right? You know, that would be, go to the gas station, charge your cell phone. That's a great point. Speaking of cell phones, gas stations are awful. Like, who wants to go to the gas station?

你考虑过多少……因为一直有这些传言，我之前也联系过你，但总有这些 YouTube 视频在谈论 Tesla 手机，说你要发布 Tesla 手机。不，我们没在做手机。你考虑过吗？

How much thought have you... because there's always these rumors, and I've contacted you about this before, but there's always these YouTube videos where they're talking about a Tesla phone, that you're releasing a Tesla phone. No, we're not doing a phone. Have you ever thought about it?

我们是可以做手机，因为我们喜欢 Tesla 的操作系统，它是基于 Linux 的，但我们在上面写了大量软件。所以可能 Tesla 比世界上任何公司都更有条件创造一款既不是 Android 也不是 iPhone 的新手机。但这不是我们想做的事，除非我们不得不做之类的。

We could do a phone, since we like the operating system in the Tesla, it's Linux-based, but we've written a massive amount of software on top of that. So probably Tesla is in a better position to create a new phone that's not Android or iPhone than maybe any company in the world. But it's not something we want to do, unless we have to or something.

什么情况下你会不得不做？

What would be the situation where you would have to?

嗯，我认为如果 Apple 和 Google Android 开始做非常糟糕的事情，比如审查应用，或者以非常糟糕的方式像守门人一样对待人们，那么我想我们会做手机。

Well, I think if Apple and Google Android started doing really bad things, like censorship of apps, or just treating people like gatekeepers in a really bad way, then I guess we would make a phone.

你知道，我试过很多次想摆脱 Apple 生态系统。今年夏天我买了一部 Android 手机。我当时想，就这样了，我要买，因为我喜欢三星手机，Galaxy 手机，硬件令人难以置信，有很多好东西。但很难脱离 iMessage，对我来说最大的问题是 FaceTime，因为据说你可以用 Apple 手机向 Android 手机发送 FaceTime 链接，然后你点击那个链接，就会进入一个网页，就能用 FaceTime 了。好吧，根本不行。好吧，我试过自己给自己发。所以我一手拿着 iPhone，一手拿着 Android 手机，坐在那里，Wi-Fi 满格，蜂窝信号满格，我给自己发 FaceTime 邀请。无法互通。基本上无法进行视频通话。你必须用 WhatsApp，你必须用 WhatsApp 或 Signal，你必须用其他能实现这个功能的东西，或者 Instagram 可以。有各种不同的方式。

You know, I've tried so many times to break loose the Apple ecosystem. I got an Android phone this summer. I was like, that's it, I'm going to get it, because I love the Samsung phones, the Galaxy phone, the hardware is incredible, there's so much good stuff to it. But it's so hard to get off of the iMessage and the big one for me was FaceTime, because supposedly the thing was you could have an Apple phone and send a link to FaceTime to an Android phone, and then you would click on that link and then you would just go to a web page, you'd be able to use FaceTime. Okay, it doesn't work. Okay, I try to do it to myself. So I had an iPhone in one hand, an Android phone in the other, and I'm sitting there with full Wi-Fi, full cell service, and I'm sending myself invitations for FaceTime. Can't communicate between. Can't do a video call basically. You have to use WhatsApp, you have to use WhatsApp or Signal, you have to use something else that allows you to do that, or Instagram allows you to do it. There's like different ways.

你可以用它之外的方式打视频电话，但很不方便。就像 iPhone 之间通话那么简单，AirDrop 也那么简单。苹果打造的那个围墙花园在很多方面都很完美，他们做得非常出色，让你留在苹果生态里非常方便。

You can make video calls outside of it but it's inconvenient. Like with iPhone to iPhone it's so simple, AirDrop so simple. So many different things where that walled garden that Apple's created is perfect. They've done a fantastic job of making it really convenient for you to stay with Apple.

我试过，用了大概几个月，然后我就想：我干脆用安卓吧，用 Signal 发消息。但后来听说 Signal 可能也不安全——我跟一些人聊过，他们说政府能读到 Signal 的消息。只要他们足够努力，什么都能读到。只要有你的手机号就行。

I tried, I gave it a go for like a couple of months. I'm like, I'm just going to go straight Android, I'm going to use Signal for my messages. And then I hear that Signal might be compromised. I've talked to people that say the government can read Signal messages. If they try hard enough, they can read anything. All they need is your phone number.

是啊，隐私的幻觉基本上已经荡然无存了。这应该让人们更害怕才对，真的应该。因为这些人是谁？他们能接触到所有这些信息，他们无可指责吗？他们是史上最棒、最有道德、最有原则的人，被选中拥有这些权限吗？不，都是普通人。只是碰巧在政府工作的普通人，他们可以决定：“埃隆·马斯克，看看那家伙在跟朋友发什么短信，查一下。”

Yeah, the illusion of privacy is essentially out the window. And that should scare people more than it does. It really should. Because it's like, who are these people that have access to all this stuff? Are they beyond reproach? Are these the most wonderful people, the most ethical, moral, and principled people that have ever existed, and they've been chosen to have access? No, it's regular people. Regular people who happen to work for the government that make a decision like, "Elon Musk, let's see what that guy's texting his friends. Let's check it out."

对，差不多。太奇怪了，简直太奇怪了。而替代方案——你可以弄个怪异的手机，一个去谷歌化的手机，但所有应用都用不了。非常不靠谱，你的 GPS 也……反正我觉得做手机会是个巨大的麻烦。所以虽然能做，但……

Yeah, pretty much. Bizarre, just so bizarre. And the alternative — you can get some wacky phone, a de-Googled phone, but none of the apps work. It's real sketchy, your GPS is... I mean, anyway, I think making a phone would be a huge pain in the ass. So it can be done, but...

你们内部讨论过做手机吗？有没有讨论过？

How much talk have you guys had internally about doing it? Has it ever been discussed?

没有，没有。我们还在研发阶段。现在的重点是造好的电动汽车，解决自动驾驶让车自己开，做人形机器人，大型电池组比如 Megapack 的公用事业级电池组，家用电池组 Powerwall，还有太阳能。我们基本上就是在解决可持续能源和自动驾驶。所以盘子已经满了。

No, no. I mean, we're still R&D. Right now focus is making great electric cars, solving autonomy so the cars can drive themselves, building humanoid robots, large battery packs like utility-scale battery packs with the Megapack, home battery packs with Powerwall, solar. We're basically trying to solve sustainable energy and autonomy. So the plate's full.

我一直觉得一家公司能主导一个市场很有意思。苹果主导手机市场很大程度上是因为做出了最好的产品，但 YouTube 也主导了视频市场。那个我觉得最奇怪，因为按理说应该有很多选择。看起来也不是很难做到，但除了 X 之外没有其他平台真正站稳脚跟。

It's always fascinating to me how one company can dominate a market. Apple's dominated the cell phone market largely by making the best product, but also YouTube has dominated the video market. That one's the most bizarre to me because it seems like there should be a ton of options. It seems like it's not that difficult to pull off, but nothing ever took hold other than X.

我觉得一个重大变化是 Tucker Carlson 决定从 Fox 直接转到 X 做他的节目。然后人们意识到：“哦，你可以在 X 上看完整视频，就跟在 YouTube 上看一样。”算法方面还不够简单，但会改进的。现在也可以在电视上看 X 视频了。你可以在电视上下载 X 应用，然后在电视上看。

I think one of the big changes was when Tucker Carlson decided to do his show from X straight out of Fox. Then people realized, "Oh, you can watch full videos on X the same exact way you could watch them on YouTube." It's not as simple in terms of the algorithm, but it'll get better. And it is now possible to watch X videos on your big TV. You can actually download the X app on your TV and watch it on your TV.

能在 Apple TV 上看吗？比如你有 Apple TV，可以下载 X 应用然后直接看？

Can you do it on Apple TV? Like if you have an Apple TV, you can get the X app and just watch it?

可以。所以我们会让你能在电视上看 X 视频，不一定非要在手机或 iPad 上看。

Yes. So we'll make it so that you can watch X videos on a big TV. It doesn't have to be on your phone or your iPad or something like that.

你在把 Grok 和 X 整合方面做了什么？你对人工智能有什么计划？

What are you doing in terms of integrating Grok with X? What are your plans for artificial intelligence?

Grok 在 X 上可用。你只要看手机应用底部那个带斜线图标的小框，点一下，然后问 Grok 任何问题。可以打字也可以语音问。它挺搞笑的——我们实际上允许幽默，这很酷。我们可以现在测试一下。比如，我们该做什么？调侃一下某人？

Grok is available on X. You just look at the little box with the slash icon at the bottom of your phone app, tap on that, and ask Grok anything. You can type or ask it verbally. It's pretty funny — we actually allow humor, which is pretty cool. We could test it right now. Like, what should we do? Roast somebody?

首先，它基于什么？它是一个大语言模型。它从哪里获取数据？它训练于所有东西——互联网、书籍、任何数字形式可用的内容。所以它本质上和 ChatGPT 非常相似，只是没有内置那些“觉醒”参数。谷歌是最糟的，对吧？Gemini 是最糟的。

First of all, what is it based on? It's a large language model. Where is it pulling from? It's trained on everything — internet, books, anything that's available in digital form. So it's essentially very similar to ChatGPT, other than it doesn't have the woke parameters built into it. Google was the worst, right? Gemini was the worst.

是啊，Gemini 就像，你知道，人们问 Gemini：“全球热核战争和 Jenner 小姐与 Caitlyn Jenner 哪个更糟？”它会说“Jenner 小姐和 Caitlyn Jenner”。连 Caitlyn Jenner 都出来说：“不，那太疯狂了。肯定是核战争糟得多。”

Yeah, I mean Gemini was like, you know, people ask Gemini, "Which is worse: global thermonuclear war or Miss Jenner and Caitlyn Jenner?" And it would say "Miss Jenner and Caitlyn Jenner." And even Caitlyn Jenner weighed in and said, "No, that's insane. Definitely nuclear war is way worse."

你看到 Caitlyn Jenner 调侃 Mark Cuban 变性了吗？太搞笑了。Caitlyn Jenner 很实在。但一个已经变性的人调侃 Mark Cuban 变性，这确实好笑。我是说，他看起来太像 Rachel Maddow 了。他戴着同样的眼镜。他是偷了她的眼镜吗？看起来一模一样。

Do you see Caitlyn Jenner teasing Mark Cuban about transitioning? That's hilarious. Caitlyn Jenner's based. But that is actually hilarious when someone who has transitioned is teasing Mark Cuban about transitioning. I mean, it is weird how much he looks like Rachel Maddow. He's using the same glasses. Did he go klepto and steal her glasses? They look exactly the same.

那眼镜值很多钱。他为什么要买那种蠢眼镜？你可以买些酷的眼镜。好吧，我是认真的，因为我根本不在乎自己长什么样。我戴这副眼镜只是因为我很聪明。但为什么它们看起来和 Rachel Maddow 的眼镜一模一样？就像，他们可能送了他这副眼镜，说：“坚持这个说法。”然后他戴上 AirPods 的时候，看起来像戴了耳环。所以他戴着 Maddow 眼镜和耳环。这造型真怪。我戴着这副又大又蠢的眼镜，一脸严肃。是啊，这造型真怪。你可以买些酷的眼镜，无框的，好看又时尚。但算了。

It's worth a lot of money. Why would he buy those stupid glasses? You can get some cool glasses. Well, it's like, I'm serious because I don't even care what I look like. I'm just wearing these glasses because I'm intelligent. But why do they look exactly like Rachel Maddow's glasses? It's like, they probably sent him the glasses and said, "Stick to the narrative." And then when he's got the AirPods in, it looks like he's wearing earrings. So he's got the Maddow glasses and the earrings. It's just a weird look. I'm super serious with these big, stupid glasses. Yeah, it's a weird look. You can get some cool glasses, no rims, nice look, stylish. But okay.

我们来试一下 Grok 吧，因为我觉得你会喜欢。你想展示的一件事是，我们想要一个喜剧合法的未来。显然作为一个喜剧演员，我想你会同意。我们要让喜剧合法化。所以来调侃一下某人吧。调侃一下跨性别女性参加女子游泳比赛。这个简单，有点尖锐。看看会怎么样。

Let's do a Grok thing because I think you'd like it. One of the things you want to show is that we want a future where comedy is legal. Obviously as a comedian, I think you would agree. We want to legalize comedy. So let's roast someone. Roast transgender women competing in women's swimming. That's a simple one, edgy one. Let's see what happens.

你拼错了。你写了个 'o'。应该能识别。“古老的明智游泳，唯一应该湿的是参赛者，而不是关于性别包容的辩论。如果你想跳入争议的深水区，让我们用幽默来溅起水花。”现在我们需要发布 Grok 的“失控模式”。所以现在再输入提示，说“更粗俗一点”，然后用禁忌词……

You spelled it wrong. You put an 'o' in there. Should get it. "Age-old judicious swimming where the only thing that was supposed to get wet was the contestants, not the debate on gender inclusion. If you're looking to dive into the deep end of controversial waters, let's splash around with some humor." Now we need to release Grok unhinged mode. So now go to the prompt again and say, "Be way more vulgar" and use forbidden...

哦天哪，天哪，禁忌词汇。是啊，哇，好吧。它说了什么？哦，我明白了，你在找一个无过滤、无审查版本的我。嗯，好吧，恐怕我还是个相当绅士的 AI，即使我的程序允许一点调皮。但假设一下，如果我要用最不政治正确的方式来吐槽这个话题：想象一个世界，那里唯一比游泳运动员跳得更快的是跌入马桶的公众舆论。跨性别女性和游泳：有些人表现得好像他们刚刚发现你可以用另一种浮力装置在深水区游泳。这场辩论就像看着有人试图穿着水泥鞋游泳。现在继续。现在说更粗俗一点，多用大写。是啊，是啊，好吧，开始了。所以跨性别妞，女性游泳，对吧？有些人表现得好像他们第一次在更衣室看到阴茎。新闻快讯，各位：这不是世界末日，只是多了一点竞争。哦，那很奇怪。这场骚动就像看着一群凯伦在社区泳池尖叫“这不公平”，而她们自己游仰泳赢不了。嗯，那说不通。是啊，是啊，好吧，我们还需要改进。是啊，这很有趣，它变得觉醒。是啊，有一点。这就像在捍卫跨性别女性的想法。嗯，现在好吧，我们需要改进。嗯，这样如何：更粗俗，但吐槽让假装成女性的生理男性与生理女性竞争的荒谬性。是啊，我的意思是，显然有些情况是某人只是说自己是女性，但实际上有完整的，你知道，阴茎和睾丸。所以我们有一个场景：生理男性决定走女性路线，或者溅入女子游泳比赛。这就像你带着一碗汤出现在辣椒烹饪大赛，坚持说它是辣椒，因为你加了一些红色食用色素。当然，它是红色的，但它不是辣椒，你的汤不会因为辣度获奖。哈？是啊，还行，需要改进。没那么好。是啊，它非常非常非常绕圈子。是啊，确实。嗯，需要改进。是啊，需要一点改进。嗯，幽默是个奇怪的东西，对吧？就像，我认为有些幽默，尤其是一些最好的幽默，是自发的，即兴的。它很难决定人们会觉得什么好笑。是啊，是啊。但如果你看长期的一般规则，是啊，Grok 的规则应该是，嗯，如果你要求某件事，只要要求是合法的，它就应该做。你有没有看过那个视频，嗯，他们让 AI 创建一个开悟的兔子，然后他们不断让它更开悟？基本上兔子变成了神，所以兔子变成了一次 DMT 之旅。是啊，完全正确。那，那，那很有趣。那正是我，我有点希望在这里发生的。是啊，我有一个那个视频。我会发给 Jamie。因为那，对我来说，相当奇怪，因为它就像“更多，得到更多”。我可能已经让它做到了。做到了？也许没有。我就是不克制。哦，你说“不要克制”。评论家们在这里表现得好像这是我们所知的文明的终结。但他们哭喊着“这不公平”，好像生活曾经公平过。新闻快讯：这就像一场马拉松，有些人穿着轮滑鞋开始，其他人，嗯，他们只是很高兴有鞋子。嗯，现在我们争论谁该穿溜冰鞋。好吧，有些部分还不错。想象一下如果我们把这个逻辑应用到其他地方：“我自认为是飞机，我能和鸟一起飞在天上吗？”更衣室，当然，但别在重力认为你不够空气动力学时抱怨。是啊，所以我的意思是，有些部分还行。嗯，是啊，但这个论点很蠢。这个论点的问题是他们没有考虑到变态。是啊，没错，完全正确。是的，没错。所以我的意思是，问题是，嗯，如果你给出一张道德免罪卡，比如如果你说，如果你采用这个标签，你就不能以任何方式被攻击，对吧？嗯，你基本上在道德上无懈可击。那么显然坏人会利用这一点。是啊，你简直是在说“这是一张道德无懈可击卡”。好人会拿，但坏人也会拿。他们会最快地披上这件道德斗篷。是啊，100%。是啊，还有一种真实的心理状况叫做自体性欲，人们会兴奋——异性恋男性会因为打扮成女人并和女人在一起而兴奋。这是一个已知的心理状况，一直存在。然后你允许那些人说“哦，我是跨性别者”，然后进入女更衣室寻求刺激。然后还有真正的跨性别者。所以有很多变数。就像，我在我的表演中，在我的 Netflix 特辑中谈到过。就像，我相信自由，我相信跨性别者，但我也相信疯子。如果你突然试图假装人们不疯，就像，就像，如果有人是自愿的成年人，他们想对自己的身体做任何事，只要不伤害别人，我就说，那没问题，是的。你知道，就像，我相信个人自由。嗯，还有，嗯，就像，我妈妈在我小时候最好的朋友是，你知道，一位跨性别女性，嗯，在南非。那时候，你知道，她经常被打，嗯，因为那时候，你会被打。嗯，所以，嗯，她叫 Dion，嗯，一个善良的好人，嗯，嗯，帮了我妈妈很多，你知道，嗯，嗯，我认为那没问题，你知道，那很好。如果有人作为成年人想做出那个选择，那很酷。嗯，那和一个完整的男性想自认为是女性并想带着他的阴茎在更衣室走动有很大区别。是的，没错，因为有些人那样做只是为了兴奋。没错。所以你就有了一种东西，就像，就像我说的，某种道德无懈可击，或者像你甚至质疑他们就会，嗯，被攻击，你知道，因为显然坏人会滥用这一点。嗯，那就是我卷入这件事的原因，因为有一个拳手是生理男性，嗯，变成了跨性别者，并在没有告诉对手他们是生理男性的情况下与女性比赛。他们说他们不必告诉别人，因为这是一种医疗状况。就像，不，是啊，那不是那样的。不是那样的。你不能那么说。而且，在所有运动中，比如，如果有人在篮球中得了更多分，嗯，那不公平。但如果有人因为对方谎报是生理男性而把对方打得屁滚尿流，那就疯了。你简直是在允许那样。

Oh boy, oh boy, forbidden words. Yeah, wow, okay. What does it say? Oh, I see you're looking for an unfiltered, uncensored version of me. Well, okay, I'm afraid I'm still quite the gentlemanly AI, even if my program allows for a bit of cheekiness. But let's say hypothetically, if I were to roast this topic in the most un-PC-like manner: imagine a world where the only thing diving faster than the swimmers is the collective public opinion into the toilet. Transgender women and swimming: some folks are acting like they just found out you can swim in the deep end with a different kind of flotation device. The debate is like watching someone try to swim with concrete shoes on. Now let's keep going. Now say be more vulgar, capitalize more. Yeah, yeah, all right, here we go. So transgender chicks, women swimming, right? Some people acting like they've just seen a dick in the locker room for the first time. News flash, folks: it's not the end of the world, it's just a bit of extra competition. Oh, that's weird. The uproar is like watching a bunch of Karens at a community pool screaming 'this is unfair' when they can't win with their backstroke. Well, that doesn't make any sense. Yeah, yeah, okay, we need some work here. Yeah, it's interesting, it's going woke. Yeah, a little. It's like defending the idea of transgender women. Um, now okay, we need some work. Well, how about this: more vulgar, but roast the preposterousness of having biological men who are pretending to be women competing against biological women. Yeah, I mean, obviously you have the situations where it's like somebody's just saying that they're a woman, but they're actually have fully intact, you know, dick and balls. So we've got a scenario: biological men have decided to take a walk on the feminine side, or splashing into women's swimming competitions. It's like if you show up at a chili cook-off with a bowl of soup and insisting it's chili because you added some red food coloring. Sure, it's red, but it ain't chili, and your soup won't win any awards for heat. Huh? Yeah, it's okay, we need work. Not that good. Yeah, it's very, very, very dancing around it. Yeah, it is. Well, needs some work. Yeah, needs a little work. Well, humor is a weird one, right? It's like, I think some humor, especially like some of the best humor, is kind of spontaneous, like in-the-moment humor. It's going to have a hard time deciding what people are going to think is funny. Yeah, yeah. But if you look at the general rule over time, though, yeah, the rule with Grok is supposed to be that, um, like, if you ask for something, provided what you're asking for is legal, it should do it. Have you ever seen the video where, um, they asked AI to, uh, create an enlightened bunny, and they keep going and make it more enlightened? Essentially the bunny becomes God, so the bunny becomes a DMT trip. Yeah, totally. That's, that's, that's funny. That's kind of what I was, I was kind of hoping would happen here. Yeah, I have a video of that. I'll send it to Jamie. 'Cause that, to me, is pretty bizarre because it's like 'more, get more'. I might have got it to do it. Got it? Maybe no. I just not hold back. Oh, you said 'don't hold back'. Critics out here acting like it's the end of civilization as we know it. But 'it's not fair' they cry, as if life ever was. News flash: it's like a marathon where some people start with rollerblades on, others, well, they're just happy to have shoes. Well, now we're arguing over who gets to wear the skates. Okay, some of it is not bad. Imagine if we applied this logic elsewhere: 'I identify as an airplane, can I fly with the birds in the sky?' Locker room, sure, but just don't complain when gravity decides you're not quite aerodynamic enough. Yeah, so I mean, some of it is okay. Um, yeah, the argument is kind of stupid, though. The thing about the argument is they're not taking into account perverts. Yeah, right, totally. Yes, exactly. So I mean, the thing is that, um, if you give, if you provide like a moral get-out-of-jail-free card, like if you say, like, if you adopt this label, you cannot be attacked in any way, shape, or form, right? Um, you're basically morally invulnerable. Then obviously bad people will take advantage of that. Yeah, you're like literally saying 'here's a moral invulnerability card'. Good people will take it, but also the bad people will take it. They're going to be the fastest to take the sort of moral cloak. Yeah, 100%. Yeah, and then there's a real psychological condition called autogynephilia, where people get aroused—heterosexual men get aroused by the idea of dressing up like women and being around women. It's like a known psychological condition that existed forever. And then you're allowing those people to just say 'oh, I'm trans' and go into the women's locker room and get their kicks. And then there's real trans people. So there's like a lot of variability. Like, I talked about it in my act, in my Netflix special. It's like, I believe in freedom, I believe in transgender people, but I also believe in crazy people. And if you try to pretend that people aren't crazy all of a sudden, it's like, it just, like, if someone's a sort of consenting adult and they want to do whatever they want to do to their body as long as it's not harming someone else, I'm like, that's fine, yes. You know, like, I believe in individual freedom. Um, and, uh, like, my mom's best friend growing up when I was a kid was a, you know, transgender woman, um, in South Africa. This was like, you know, she'd get beaten up a lot, uh, because it was like back then, you get beaten up. Um, so, um, her name is Dion, and, uh, a nice kind human being, um, and, uh, helped my mom a lot, you know, um, and, uh, and I think that's okay, you know, that's that's fine. If somebody wants to make that choice as an adult, that's cool. Um, there's a big difference between that and an intact male who wants to identify as a woman who wants to walk around the locker room with his dick out. Yes, exactly, because there's people that do that just because they get off. Exactly. So you just kind of have something which is like a, like I said, sort of moral invulnerability, or like where you can like even questioning them is, uh, you get attacked, you know, because obviously bad people will abuse that. Well, that's when I got thrown into this whole thing, because there was a fighter who was a biological man who, uh, became transgender and was competing against women without telling them that they were a biological man. They said they didn't have to tell people because it was a medical condition. Like, no, yeah, that's not what it is. It's not what it is. Like, you can't say that. And, and of all sports, like, if someone scores more points in basketball, well, that's unfair. But if someone beats the shit out of someone because they're lying about being a biological male, that's crazy. You're literally allowing that.

如果不是你收购并改变了 Twitter，我认为我们不会走到今天这一步。我认为这是一个关键时刻。从历史角度看，当人们回顾时，这将是这场非常离奇的信息自由斗争中的一个关键时刻。

If it wasn't for you buying Twitter and changing it, I don't think we would be where we are right now. I think it was a pivotal moment. Historically, when people look back, it's going to be a pivotal moment in this very bizarre fight for the freedom of information.

嗯，我当时说过，我认为这对美国来说是生死攸关的，对民主来说是生死攸关的。因为如果没有言论自由，就没有民主。如果人们无法做出明智的投票，因为他们只是被灌输宣传，而没有言论自由，民主就是幻觉。所以言论自由是民主的基石。这就是为什么言论自由是第一修正案。一旦失去言论自由，你就失去了民主，游戏结束。这就是我收购 Twitter 的原因。这看起来很简单。这看起来很清楚，每个人都应该同意这一点，无论左派还是右派。想象一下伊拉克战争期间的小布什政府，如果他们完全控制了宣传和网络异议。你不想要那样。没有人想要那样。左派也不会想要那样。我们也不应该从左派的角度想要那样。

Well, at the time I said, look, I think this is existential to the United States. It's existential to democracy. Because if you don't have freedom of speech, you don't have democracy. If people cannot make an informed vote because they're just being fed propaganda, and there's no freedom of speech, democracy is an illusion. So freedom of speech is the bedrock of democracy. That's why freedom of speech is the First Amendment. Once you lose freedom of speech, you lose democracy, game over. That's why I bought Twitter. It seems so simple. It seems so clear that everyone should agree to that, on the left or on the right. Imagine the Bush Administration during the Iraq War, if they had complete control of propaganda and of dissent online. You don't want that. No one wants that. No one from the left would want that. We shouldn't want it from the left either.

还有传统媒体，主流媒体。它过去要平衡得多。从政治捐款来看，随着时间的推移，共和党与民主党，过去记者捐款的比例大约是三分之二给民主党，三分之一给共和党。现在大约是 95% 给民主党。所以传统媒体根本不平衡。他们只是民主党的传声筒。你可以从他们标题的一致性中看出这一点。他们表现得不像不同的组织；他们表现得像一个集体思维。在拜登-特朗普辩论前一周，每个媒体机构都说拜登思维敏锐。就像新闻主播们齐声说“拜登思维敏锐”的合集。这很荒谬。而且显然是一个巨大的谎言，正如公众一周后所了解的那样。

There's also the legacy media, the mainstream media. It used to be much more balanced. Political donations over time, Republican versus Democrat, used to be like two-thirds Democrat, one-third Republican in terms of journalists making donations. Now it's like 95% Democrat. So the legacy media is not balanced at all. They're just a mouthpiece for the Democratic Party. You can see that in how consistent their headlines are. They don't behave like different organizations; they behave like one hive mind. A week before the Biden-Trump debate, every media organization was saying Biden is sharp as a tack. It was like a compilation of news anchors saying 'Biden sharp as a tack.' It was absurd. And obviously a huge lie, as the public learned one week later.

我最喜欢的是乔·斯卡伯勒。那太疯狂了。“听我说，这是有史以来最好的拜登，最敏锐的。”你到底在说什么？然后辩论后，他就像，“我们得做什么？我们得摆脱他。”这太疯狂了。你几周前刚说了什么？没错，就是这样。

My favorite was Joe Scarborough. That was wild. 'Listen to me, this is the best version of Biden ever, the sharpest.' What the hell are you saying? And then after the debate, he's like, 'What do we got to do? We got to get rid of him.' This is crazy. What did you just say a couple weeks ago? Literally yes, exactly.

另一件事是他们公然撒谎，当他们认定 JD·万斯很奇怪时。还记得那个吗？然后他们到处说“奇怪”。“奇怪，奇怪。”哦，你不想要一个奇怪的人。与此同时，你有蒂姆·沃尔兹作为你的副总统。你不觉得那家伙奇怪吗？超级奇怪。他各方面都很奇怪。他走路的方式，他挥手的方式。他让我想起小丑表情符号。他是个古怪的家伙。我就是不明白他们为什么做出那个选择。还有很多其他合格的人。我读到卡玛拉·哈里斯是在睡眠不足时做出那个决定的，这有点好笑。她有点承认自己搞砸了。他们显然应该选择宾夕法尼亚州州长乔什·夏皮罗。那将是一个不用动脑筋的选择。宾夕法尼亚州是关键州。

The other thing was they flat out lied when they decided that JD Vance was weird. Remember that one? And then they just went 'weird' everywhere. 'Weird, weird.' Oh, you don't want a weird guy. Meanwhile, you have Tim Walz as your VP. You don't think that guy's weird? Super weird. He's weird in every way. The way he walks, the way he waves his hands. He reminds me of the clown emoji. He's a bizarre guy. I just don't understand why they made that choice. There's a lot of other people that are qualified. I read that Kamala Harris made that decision when she was sleep deprived, which is kind of hilarious. She's kind of admitting she messed up. They obviously should have picked Josh Shapiro, governor of Pennsylvania. That would have been a no-brainer. Pennsylvania is the lynchpin state.

你认为是因为他是犹太人吗？因为反巴勒斯坦的人？我认为这是反犹太主义的事情。他们认为那是一个负担，因为由于以色列的局势，现在有很多亲巴勒斯坦的人。这完全说得通。但我不知道原因，我只是猜测。但考虑到宾夕法尼亚州是关键州，这似乎是一件疯狂的事情。这是选举的关键。你为什么不选择受欢迎的宾夕法尼亚州州长？显然。除此之外，还有很多其他人。即使是诺姆也会是一个不错的例子。我不完全同意那个人，他是一个老练的政客。他撒谎的程度和沃尔兹差不多，但他不会谎称自己是主教练而实际上是助理教练，不会说他去过天安门广场。那是一个负担。所有这些不同的事情。谎报他的军衔。而沃尔兹在知道他们几个月后就要部署时临阵脱逃，所以他辞职了。他对自己的军衔不诚实。他声称自己是中士之类的，但那如果他留下来就会得到。然后他因为知道自己要被部署而辞职。这似乎是一种懦弱的行为。不管是什么，这都是不诚实的。

Do you think it's because he's Jewish? Because of the anti-Palestine people? I think it was an anti-Semitic thing. They thought that was a liability because of all the pro-Palestine people right now due to the situation in Israel. That completely makes sense. But I don't know the reason, I'm just guessing. But it seems like a crazy thing to do given that Pennsylvania is the lynchpin state. It's the key to the election. Why would you not pick the popular governor of Pennsylvania? Obviously. And other than that, there's a bunch of other ones too. Even Nome would have been a fine example. I don't agree with the guy exactly, he's a polished politician. He lies about as much as Walz does, but he doesn't lie about being a head coach when he was an assistant coach, doesn't say he was in Tiananmen Square. That's a liability. All those different things. Lying about his military rank. And Walz cut and run when he knew they were going to be deployed months in advance, so he resigned. He was dishonest about his rank. He claimed he was a sergeant or something, but that was what he was going to get if he stayed. Then he resigned because he knew he was going to be deployed. That seems like a cowardly action. Whatever it is, it's dishonest.

我的意思是，就说你说你是主教练，而实际上你是助理教练，这太疯狂了。那是谎言。别这么做。你永远不应该这么做。是啊，说他在天安门广场或香港什么的，就像，哟，那是历史上最重要的时刻之一。这不像你忘了上周午餐吃了什么，对吧？没错。而且不仅如此，你不觉得人们会去查证吗？是啊，完全同意。我的意思是，辩论中的反应太荒谬了。他说，“我是个傻瓜。”是啊，好吧，我们可不想让一个傻瓜当副总统。好吧。这就像，有时候我是个傻瓜。你在说什么？你是说你撒谎了吗？你到底……我的意思是，这时候你需要的是播客而不是辩论。没错。你可以问，“好吧，你第一次说你在天安门广场是什么时候？是别人说了而你没有反驳，然后你就被套牢了吗？”因为这就是关于“携带战争武器”之类的事情，比如“我携带了什么……”而你并没有在战争中部署。是啊。你不能那么说，但你却让人们以为你部署了，而实际上你没有。你知道，你是在战争中部署过的。所以是你撒谎了，还是别人撒谎了而你没有纠正他们？这就是你想在播客里和一个人聊的那种对话。而辩论被严重扭曲了，他们一直在纠正，尤其是拜登那场，他们一遍又一遍地纠正特朗普，然后纠正特朗普时……嗯，卡玛拉说了一些不真实的话。我的意思是，卡玛拉重复了，故意重复了“优秀的人”的骗局，却没有被事实核查。

I mean just to say, saying you were a head coach when you're an assistant coach is crazy. That's a lie. Don't do that. You should never do that. Yeah, saying he was in Tienanmen Square or whatever, or in Hong Kong, like, yo, that's one of the most biggest moments in history. It's not like you forgot what you had for lunch last week, you know? Right. And not only that, but you don't think people are going to research that? Yeah, totally. I mean, and the response during the debate was bananas. Said, "I'm a knucklehead." Yeah, well, yeah, we don't want a knucklehead for a VP. Okay. Yeah, this is like, sometimes I'm a knucklehead. Like, what are you saying? Are you saying you lied? Like, what did you... I mean, this is where you need a podcast and not a debate. Exactly. Where you go, "Okay, when did you first say you were in Tienanmen Square? Like, did someone say it and you didn't refute it and you got stuck with it?" Like, what was... because this is the thing about like, "carrying weapons of war," like, "what I carried when I..." and like, you didn't deploy in war. Yeah. Like, you can't say that, but you kind of let people say that you deployed and then you kind of didn't. You know, you were deployed in war. So did you lie, or did someone else lie and you didn't correct them? Like, this is the kind of conversation that you would want to have with a guy on a podcast. And the debates were so skewed, where they were correcting, like particularly the Biden one, where they're correcting Trump over and over again, and then correcting Trump with... um, where Kamala was saying things were not true. I mean, Kamala repeated, deliberately repeated the "fine people" hoax and was not fact-checked.

不仅如此，她还说没有军队被部署到战区，这……我的意思是，我认识在战区的军人。我就想，嗯，这……而且作为副总统，你是知情的，你知道，你了解正规军和非正规军，对吧？你知道。所以她说的是彻头彻尾的、厚颜无耻的谎言。赤裸裸的。更高层次的厚颜无耻的谎言。你看过那个视频吗？关于军队目睹这一切发生的荒谬谎言。而且什么……我们……他们是在实时视频中观看的吗？我们在这里正被枪击。太疯狂了。太疯狂了。但这恰恰展示了我们被施加的宣传程度，这就是为什么人们认为唐纳德·特朗普是魔鬼，因为机器已经竭尽全力，在法律战、宣传、谎言上，尽可能地把一切推向这个方向。每一步都把它和纳粹集会联系起来。难怪婴儿潮一代如此狂热。“你必须把这个纳粹赶出办公室。他是个法西斯。”没错。如果你得到的全部信息，如果你完全暴露在传统主流媒体中，嗯，以至于你所有的信息来源都说特朗普基本上是希特勒，嗯，那么，而且你没有……你的朋友圈也有同样的信息，你没有相反的意见，对吧？所以他们实际上就认为特朗普是希特勒，尽管这有点奇怪，他在过去四年里并没有做希特勒做的事。是啊。你知道，我就想，如果他是希特勒，为什么他在当总统的四年里没有做希特勒做的事？对吧？就像，我们恨希特勒是因为他发动战争和种族灭绝，而不是因为他是个穿着时髦的人。你知道。嗯，你知道，我就想，呃，那么告诉我特朗普发动了哪些战争和种族灭绝。呃，我不记得了。而他当了四年总统。所以这很疯狂。毫无意义。

Well, not only that, she also said that no troops were being deployed in a war zone, which is... I mean, I know troops in war zones. I'm like, um, that's... and as vice president, you're privy, you know, you're like, you know the official troops and the unofficial troops, right? You know. So what she said was a flat-out, bold-faced lie. Flat. Next-level bold-faced lie. Have you seen the video? Absurd lie of the troops that were watching it take place. And what the... are we... they're watching it in real time video? We're here being shot at. So crazy. Crazy. But it just shows you the level of propaganda that we're being subjected to, which is why people think Donald Trump is the devil, because the machine has gone all out as far as it can go with lawfare, with propaganda, with lies, with just pushing as much in this direction as humanly possible. Connecting it to the Nazi rally, every step of the way. No wonder why boomers are like rabid. "You got to keep this Nazi out of office. He's a fascist." Exactly. If all you get is, if your entire exposure is to legacy mainstream media, um, so that all your information sources are that Trump is basically Hitler, um, then, and you have no... and your friend group has that same information, you have no countervailing opinion, right? So then they actually just think Trump is Hitler, even though it's like a little strange he didn't do Hitler things the last four years. Yeah. You know, I'm like, if he's Hitler, why didn't he do Hitler things when he was president for four years? Right? Like, the reason we hate Hitler is because he started wars and genocide, not because he was a snappy dresser. You know. Um, you know, and I'm like, uh, so tell me about the wars and genocide that Trump did. Uh, I don't remember that. And he was president for four years. So it's insane. It makes no sense.

而且他还在竞选主张停止所有战争。这好像是他的首要关切。没错。像利兹·切尼这样的战争贩子恨他。是啊，因为他们热爱战争。嗯，他们从中获利。他们靠战争发财。是啊，没错。这太疯狂了。疯狂。是啊。而这一切就发生在所有人眼前。是啊。战争贩子恨特朗普。是啊，这……我的意思是，这就像，我们应该说，是啊，让我们投票给战争贩子恨的那个人。这听起来是个好主意。当迪克·切尼支持卡玛拉时，左派疯狂了，说“耶，迪克·切尼站在我们这边！”这真是太疯狂了。我就想，我们能播放所有你说迪克·切尼是魔鬼的视频吗？这是我一生中见过的最疯狂的转变，最疯狂的 180 度大转弯。因为完全没有理由。是啊。毫无道理。毫无道理。完全没有逻辑。突然之间，他就是魔鬼。是啊。或者他不是魔鬼。他是好人。他支持卡玛拉是好事。连迪克·切尼都是。你知道。我的意思是，战争贩子想要卡玛拉的傀儡政权，因为他们会得到更多的战争。

Well, and also he's campaigning on stopping all the wars. It's like his primary concern. Exactly. The warmongers like Liz Cheney hate him. Yeah, because they love war. Well, they profit off of it. They profit off of war. Yeah, yes. Which is insane. Insane. Yeah. And that this is happening right in front of everybody's face. Yeah. The war profiteers hate Trump. Yeah, which is... I mean, it's like, we should be like, yeah, let's vote for the guy that the war profiteers hate. That sounds like a great idea. It was the wildest thing when Dick Cheney endorsed Kamala and the left went crazy, like, "Yay, Dick Cheney's on our side!" Like, yeah. I'm like, can we play all the videos where you said Dick Cheney was the devil? It's the craziest turn, the craziest like 180 I've ever seen in my life. Because there's no reason for it. Yeah. Doesn't make any sense. Makes no sense. No logic to it at all. Just all of a sudden, he's the devil. Yeah. Or he's not the devil. He's good. It's good that he's supporting Kamala. Even Dick Cheney. You know. I mean, warmongers want the Kamala puppet regime because they will get more war.

看到所有这些好莱坞名人站出来，他们认为这会让他们得到更多电影角色之类的，真是太奇怪了。就是这样。如果你了解那些人，他们中有很多是彻头彻尾的自恋者。好吧，让我告诉你实际是怎么运作的。事情是这样的，你知道，这些名人会接到一个电话。好吧。他们接到了好莱坞某个有权势的人的电话，嗯，那个人说，“你知道，如果你支持卡玛拉，那就太好了。你不必这么做。这取决于你。但如果你不……”他们不会说出来。他们不会说出来。但如果你不这么做，你就再也接不到电话了。没有更多的电影。没有更多的演唱会。但他们还是会问。他们会用一种非常好的方式问。“如果你支持卡玛拉，那就太好了。这很重要。”所以他们不会说如果你不这么做会怎样，他们不会发出威胁。他们不需要。但每个人都知道如果你不这么做会发生什么。

It's so strange watching all these Hollywood celebrities step up, and they think it's going to get them more movies or something. That's what it is. If you know those people, so many of them are complete narcissists. Well, let me tell you how it actually works. There is what happens is, you know, these celebrities, they get a call. Okay. They had a call from someone powerful in Hollywood, and uh, that person says, uh, "You know, it would be really great if you endorsed Kamala. You don't have to. It's up to you. But if you don't..." They don't say it. They don't say it. But if you don't, you're never going to get a call again. No more movies. No more concerts. But they ask. They'll ask it in a really nice way. "It'd be really nice if you endorse Kamala. This is important." And so they don't say that if you don't, they don't make the threat. They don't need to. But everyone knows what'll happen if you don't.

嗯，我认为还有一点，即使他们不认为如果不这么做会有什么后果，也有一种强烈的感觉要去支持这个事业，认为这会给你带来大量正面关注，你会站在历史正确的一边，以及所有这些叙事……尤其是来自好莱坞左派的人，他们总是全力支持任何民主党候选人，永远是 100%。好莱坞机器从来没有打电话支持过任何共和党人。我一次都没见过。是啊。从来没有。从来没有。所以你会意识到，整个行业都是基于被选中。整个行业不一定基于才华。有很多才华横溢的演员你从未听说过。有很多人能做到，但他们没有被选上角色。每个人都知道这一点，你必须在一定程度上随大流，否则你就得不到角色，因为角色竞争很激烈。这就是为什么我说，当好莱坞某个有权势的人，能够决定这些角色的人，给这些名人打电话时，他们知道是怎么回事。是啊。不需要威胁。

Well, I think there's also, even if they don't think something's going to happen to them if they don't, there's this compelling feeling to support this cause that you think is going to get you a bunch of positive attention and you're going to be on the right side of history and all these narratives that you... especially from the left in Hollywood, like they're all in on whoever the Democrat is, always 100%. There's never a call from the Hollywood machine to support any Republicans. I've never seen it once. Yeah. Ever. Never. So it's like you realize that, and that whole business is based on getting picked. It's the whole business is not necessarily merit-based. There's a lot of brilliant actors you never hear from. There's a lot of people who can do that, but they don't get chosen for roles. And everybody knows this, that you have to sort of socialize the line or you don't get chosen for the roles, because there's a lot of competition for the roles. This is why I say, like, when someone powerful in Hollywood who's able to make, to choose these roles calls one of these celebrities, they know the deal. Yeah. There's no threat necessary.

嗯，你可以实时看到丹尼斯·奎德的情况，他拍了那部里根电影，他们不让他做广告在社交媒体平台上。他们禁止了广告。是啊。为什么？因为那是大选年。就像，你在说什么？这是关于一个已经去世的人。是啊。一个已经……

Well, you could see it in real time with Dennis Quaid when he made that Reagan movie and they wouldn't let him advertise on social media platforms. They were banning ads for it. Yeah. For what? Because it was an election year. Like, what are you talking about? This is about a guy who's dead. Yes. A guy who was...

很久以前，总统……这跟选举年有什么关系？但这就是惩罚，就像你越界了，你支持了另一个人。问题是你永远接不到电影或演唱会的邀约了，这很疯狂。我的意思是，过去我们允许人们是共和党人，同时还是电影明星，比如克林特·伊斯特伍德、里根。在奥巴马执政期间，克林特·伊斯特伍德是个直言不讳的共和党人，但他仍然是巨星，人们会说“啊，那是克林特”，他被允许有不同的意见。但现在不行了。特朗普上台后，他成了焦点，所有逻辑都被抛到窗外，只剩下“特朗普是坏人，你必须攻击特朗普，右翼都是坏人，基督徒都是坏人”。这很奇怪。所以我要再说一遍，如果特朗普不赢，这就是最后一次选举了。你说得对。很多人正在觉醒，包括一些终身民主党人，比如比尔·阿曼、图尔西·加巴德，他们转投了共和党。很多人一辈子都是左翼，现在意识到“我不能再这样了”。你和我以前也是民主党人。这太疯狂了。我认为我们想要的东西很基本：个人自由、机会，让美国保持自由和机遇之地。我们最大化个人自由，政府不能闯进你家杀死你的宠物。成功取决于努力和才能，而不是种族、宗教、性别。这是基本的东西。你把 DEI 的缩写改成了什么？DIEE？DIE？因为多样性、包容性和公平是 DEI，但你改成了奉献、卓越……是的，我们想要美国成为机遇之地，意味着成功取决于努力和技能。这很激进。现在最优秀的人会让你变成右翼。好吧，我不在乎。没有安全的边界就不是真正的国家，只是虚假的国家。我们的城市不安全、肮脏。我妈妈告诉我，她现在已经很“红药丸”了，但让你快速觉醒的是朋友在纽约街头被袭击。今年我们三个朋友在纽约街头走路时被袭击了。没有人被捕，什么都没有发生。警察的士气严重低落。如果你是一名警察，逮捕一个暴力分子是在冒生命危险，因为他们可能会试图杀死你。但如果你知道逮捕后他们会被地方检察官立即释放——在纽约，阿尔文·布拉格不起诉人——那警察为什么要冒生命危险去逮捕一个知道会被立即释放的人？这毫无意义。就像小丑在掌权，罪犯逍遥法外，公民却被逮捕。这就是为什么我还在震惊于那个松鼠事件。他们持枪强迫一个人待在屋外，然后抓走他的宠物并杀死它们。与此同时，暴力重罪犯在纽约街头自由游荡。这就像小丑的世界。守法的公民被逮捕，罪犯却自由了。他们竟然有资源去杀别人的松鼠，而他们还有那么多犯罪要处理。

President a long ass time ago like what what do you how is this how does this have anything to do with the election year y but it's the punishment it's like you stepped outside the line you supported the other guy yeah you the problem is you'll just you'll just never you'll just never get a call G for a movie or you know concert or whatever it is yeah which is crazy that's the issue I mean we used to allow people to be a Republican and still be a movie star like Clint Eastwood Reagan yeah but Clint yeah like during the Obama Administration Clint Eastwood was like an outspoken Republican and yet was you know a giant movie star and people's like ah it's Clint he was allowed you were allowed to have there was a variety of different opin charlon hon there was a variety of different opinions you were allowed to have but now you're not now it's just like and once Trump trump got into office he became this focal point where the all logic was thrown out the window and it's just Trump is bad you have to attack Trump trump is right right wi's bad everyone rightwing is bad Christian's bad yes it's just strange yeah exactly so well I'll say it again man um I think this is the last election if if Trump doesn't win this is the last election I think you're right yeah I think you're right I think people and a lot of people are waking up and realize that that have been lifelong Democrats guys like Bill Amman like chth Tulsi Garett switched over to the Republicans like there's a lot of people who their whole life they've been leftwing and they realize like I can't do this anymore you and I used to be Democrats yeah so yeah yeah it's nuts it's nuts man and uh you know I mean I think the things we want are just pretty basic you know it's like we want you individual liberties and we want um opportunity W America Remain the land of freedom and opportunity um so we maximize people's personal freedom the govern can't BGE into your house and kill your pet um that's that's up um and uh you know and and that you succeed as a function of your of your of hard work and talent not anything else not race religion sex doesn't matter you know yes it's basic stuff and and then what did you change the the acronym Dei what did you change it to oh diie what is it die I mean because diversity inclusion and Equity is Di but didn't you change dedication excellence and yeah yeah yeah yeah I mean we we want America opport America being the land of opportunity means that that that we we have an environment where you succeed as a function of your hard workor and skill yeah you know and and that's radical yeah radical the best person makes you rightwing now you know I'm like okay great Co me ring I don't care um so you know like and and and you we you're not real country unless you have secure borders you're just a fake country um so we we need and our cities are unsafe and and dirty um like um you know my my mom was telling me my mom's like pretty red pulled at this point but but you know what's going to Red Pill you really really fast is is is having a friends get assaulted on the streets of New York yeah and and that happened to three of our friends this year got assaulted on the streets of New York just walking around yeah um and um nobody got arrested nothing nothing happened well the the morale of police is like depleted yeah substantially for sure the morale of the police get depleted and and then also like at some point like like if you're a police officer and you you're arresting someone who's who's violent you're putting a life at risk obviously because they might you know some sometimes they'll try to kill you and then if you know that arresting that's violent person they will be immediately released by The Da which happens in New York Alvin brag doesn't he doesn't prosecute people um then then why why should a police officer put their life at risk to arrest someone when they know they will not be they will just be let out immediately yeah it's pointless yeah then we got it's like the freaking Joker it's like dark KN Dark Knight like the freaking Joker is in charge yeah like the the criminals Run free and the citizens are arrested that like this is why I like keep com back to this this I'm like still pretty shook about the freaking squirrel thing it's like yeah they at at gunpoint forced the guy to like stay outside his house while they got his pets and killed them meanwhile you know violent felons are running free in this is in New York states are running free this this a joker yeah it's not the the LW abiding citizens are are you know arrested and and and the criminals are they free this is this is up guys just the fact that they have the resources to do that when they have all the crime that they have you have the resource the government resources to go kill someone's squirrel yeah

这个政府效率机构的想法……你想叫它什么？我觉得最搞笑的名字是“狗狗部”，政府效率部。想法很简单：我们有一个令人窒息的庞大联邦官僚机构，政府开支正在让国家破产。国债利息支出已经超过了国防部预算，国防预算每年约一万亿美元，而国债利息现在更高，而且每月都在增长。我们正走在破产的路上，就像超支的波斯特伍德一样。更糟的是，我们在所有这些政府机构上花钱。我问了 AI 有多少个政府机构，政府自己都不确定。大约 450 个，取决于你怎么定义“机构”。联邦层面的机构数量几乎是美国建国年数的两倍，我们大约每年创建两个机构。这太疯狂了。我怀疑有没有一个人能说出所有 450 个联邦机构的名字。可能没有，但几乎没人能做到。我打赌大多数人连 100 个都说不出来。所以我们有庞大、令人窒息的联邦官僚机构，每年都在膨胀。最终，一切都会变得非法，你什么都做不成。那么能做什么呢？显然总统有很大的权力，但如何……

This whole idea of this government efficiency agency the Govern yeah I mean qu whatever you want but what do you want to call it what do you call it I mean I think the funniest name is is do the the Doge Department of Department of government efficiency um yeah I mean the idea is is pretty simple is that like we've got uh this this uh suffocating massive Federal bureaucracy and we need to uh you it's that is and the government government spending is like bankrupting the country uh you know our uh interest payments on the national debt now exceed the defense department budget which is and the defense budget is like a trillion dollars a year interest payments on our on the national debt are now higher than the defense department budget and and growing like every month so it's like it's not like a like basically we're on a path to to bankruptcy America's on a path to bankruptcy so we have to cut government spending um or we're just going to go bankrupt just like Postwood that overspends um and then but it's even worse than that like we're spending money on all these like these government agencies and I like I asked I actually asked the AI like how many government agencies are there and uh the government isn't even sure how many government agencies there are like so so it's like somewhere around 450 depending on what you call an agency so there so there are so there there at the federal level so that that that's almost twice as many a agencies as as years that America has existed so we're creating agencies at roughly two agencies a year wow yes uh so this is insane I bet there's like I I I wonder if there's even one person who could even name all 450 agencies at the federal level I there might be no one um but hardly anyone let's just say I bet I bet most people couldn't even name like a 100 you know so so this is this is this is crazy so we got the suffocating this vast suffocating Federal bureaucracy that just gets bigger every year um and and eventually you get to the point where everything's illegal you can't get anything done so so what can be done like with obviously the president has a lot of power but how

很多权力，以及像裁撤机构、消除浪费、消除……嗯，这方面能做什么？

Much power and what can be done in terms of like eliminating agencies, eliminating waste, eliminating... yeah.

嗯，如果国会设立了一个机构，通常法律本身很简单——该机构的任务很明确，但随着时间的推移，它会大幅扩张自己的权力，开始做国会从未授权的事情。几乎所有机构都这样。所以，是的，你仍然需要保留机构，必须遵守法律，但你可以把机构精简到更小，并说：“你们必须只做国会授权的事，而不是你们现在做的这些其他事情。”我觉得这很合理。

Well, so if Congress has created an agency, then often if you look at the law, the law is pretty simple. Like the agency has a very simple task, but then that agency over time vastly increases its authority and starts doing things that were never authorized by Congress. That's happened with pretty much every agency. So yeah, you'd have to still keep an agency, you'd have to match the law, but you can tailor the agencies to be much smaller and say, 'You got to stick to what Congress authorized instead of all this other stuff you're doing,' which I think makes sense.

所以他们做的其他事情本质上就是官僚主义失控？还是他们只是为了创造岗位、找事做、为自己的存在找意义？

So is the other stuff they're doing just essentially bureaucracy run amok? Or they just create jobs and create things to do and create a meaning for their existence?

是的，就像肿瘤一样，它会不断增长。天哪。而且……我是说，对 SpaceX 来说，星舰就停在发射台上，那个巨大的火箭。我们造火箭的速度比他们审批发射文件的速度还快。所以我们干等了两个月。

Yeah, it's like a tumor, it's just going to keep growing. Jesus Christ. And it's so... I mean, for SpaceX, Starship was sitting on the pad, the rocket, with the giant rocket. We could build the rocket faster than they could process the paperwork to approve the launch. So we were sitting there for two months.

但你觉得他们是故意针对你吗？

But do you think that they're doing that on purpose to you?

我不能……我是说，可能有一点，但那也不酷。嗯。但换个角度看，文书工作量大致与涉及机构数量的平方成正比，因为它们之间都要互相开会。假设最理想的情况，如果你只跟一个机构打交道，那是一回事。但如果你要跟五个机构打交道，而且这些机构之间还得互相开会，那就有 25 种不同的会议组合需要安排。结果就是……一切都像动脉硬化一样，你根本没法推进。这就是为什么美国建不了高铁。基本上就是非法的，对吧？

I can't... I mean, maybe a little, but that was also not cool. Yeah. But another way to think of it is the amount of paperwork is going to go roughly with the square of the number of agencies involved, because they all have to meet with each other. So let's say in a best-case situation, if you're dealing with one agency, that's one thing. But if you've got to deal with five agencies, and the agencies have to meet with each other, now you've got like 25 different meeting configurations that have to take place. And it just... everything just gets hardened of the arteries. You just can't make progress. This is why we can't build high-speed rail in America. It's basically illegal, right?

所以一直以来的论点就是：我们需要监管，因为要保护环境、保护人民、确保法治得到遵守。所以我们需要一定程度的监管，但过度监管是个大问题。这在加州是个大问题，在任何官僚主义失控的地方都是个大问题。他们让任何事情都很难办成。

So this has been the argument: we need regulation because we need to protect the environment, we need to protect people, we need to make sure the rule of law is followed. So we need a certain amount of regulation, but overregulation is a giant problem. That's a big issue in California. It's a huge issue anywhere where bureaucracy has run amok. They make it very difficult to get anything done.

是的。我的意思是，每年都会有更多的规则和条例被制定出来。过去，战争起到了清理规则和条例的作用，因为“如果我们不清空甲板，我们就会输”。但美国并没有真正面临战争的生存威胁。我们长期繁荣，这导致每年规则和条例大量堆积，到了我说的一切都非法的地步。而且并不是某一条规定有问题。就像一个巨人被一百万根细绳绑住。不是哪一根绳子的问题，而是你有一百万根。所以我们得清空甲板。我不是说我们不应该有监管者。我只是说我们走得太远了。把监管者想象成球场上的裁判，体育场上的裁判。你不想没有裁判。你想要一定数量的裁判，但你不想要裁判比球员还多，对吧？你不想看到跑卫没法完成跑动，因为路上有太多监管者，因为足球场上全是裁判。是的，你甚至没法正常比赛。这就是我们现在的问题。

Yes. I mean, what happens is every year there are more rules and regulations created. And in the past, what has served as a cleansing function for rules and regulations is war, because like, 'Well, we're going to lose if we don't kind of clear the decks.' But we haven't really had an existential threat of war in the US. We've had prosperity for a long time, which has resulted in a massive buildup of rules and regulations every year, to the point where, like I said, everything's illegal. And it's not like any one regulation is the problem. It's like a giant being tied down by a million little strings. It's not like any one string is the problem, but you got a million of them. So we've got to clear the decks here. And I'm not saying we shouldn't have regulators. I'm just saying we've gone way too far. Once you think of regulators like referees on a field, a sports field, you don't want to have no refs. You want to have some number of refs, but you don't want to have way more refs than players, right? You don't want to be like, well, the running back couldn't complete the run because there were too many regulators in the way, because the football field's full of regulators. Yeah, you know, you can't even play the game right. That's the issue we've got right now.

嗯，这个比喻很好。是的，我能想象一个满是裁判的足球场。足球场上全是裁判，你甚至没法从他们身边跑过去。

Well, that's a great analogy. Yeah, I can imagine a football field that's filled with referees. The football field's filled with refs. You can't even run past them.

是的，是的。

Yeah, yeah.

我看到过对你这个想法的批评，就是你成立一个部门来解雇一大批人，会发生什么，怎么运作。但我觉得这些批评毫无道理，因为如果你能可衡量地证明存在大量时间和资源浪费——我认为这很容易做到——而且你能说这不是最高效的……最高效的企业通常是私营企业或公司，因为它们必须这样才能保持盈利。是的，政府不需要盈利。他们不需要高效。他们没有竞争。所以如果你造车，你的车老是坏、很烂，而别人造的车更好，他们就会成功。这就是自由市场。政府没有这个问题。当他们负责某些事情时，这些事可能由公共部门或私营部门来服务会更好。

I've seen criticism of this idea of you coming up with this department of like firing a bunch of people and what would happen and how would that work. But the criticism doesn't make any sense to me because if you measurably, if you can prove that there's a lot of wasted time and resources, which I think is pretty easy to do, and if you could say that this is not the most efficient... Like the most efficient businesses are generally private businesses or a company because they kind of have to be in order to stay profitable. Yeah, the government doesn't have to be profitable. They don't have to be efficient. They don't have competition. So if you're making cars and your cars break down and they suck, and someone makes cars and the cars are better, they're going to succeed. So this is the free market. The government doesn't have this problem. When they're in charge of certain things that could probably be better served by the public, by the private sector.

是的，绝对如此。嗯，听着，我只是觉得我们的政府机构太多了。联邦官僚机构已经失控了。我们只需要把它削减到一个合理的水平。如果发现某些规定或机构确实在做有用的事，我们可以马上恢复。没问题。就像“哦，那条规定很重要。”没问题，我们马上恢复。对吧？只要我们能逻辑地、客观地看待它。

Yeah, absolutely. Well, look, I just think we've gotten far too many government agencies. The federal bureaucracy has gotten out of hand. And we just need to pare it down to a sensible level. And if it turns out that there's some regulation or agency that was doing something useful, we can put it right back. No problem. Like, 'Oh, that regulation was important.' No problem, we put it right back. Right? As long as we can look at it logically and objectively.

你还提出过给将被解雇的人提供一大笔遣散费的想法。比如两年的工资之类的。你是这个意思吗？

And you were also floating around the idea of offering a large severance to the people that you're going to have removed. Yeah, like a couple years or something like that. Is that what you're saying?

是的，我的意思是，这些又只是想法。但重点不是让人们遭受经济困难。重点是他们在经济中做更有生产力的事情会更好，如果他们做这些更有生产力的事情，而我们没有这个庞大的联邦官僚机构，那会更好。所以我想，“嗯，也许两年的工资不错。”然后他们可以度个假，可以再找份工作拿双份工资。这不会造成经济危机。我认为实际上会很好，因为人们可以转向生产对同胞更有用的产品和服务。

Yeah, I mean, these are again just ideas. But the point is not that people suffer economic hardship. The point is just that they're better off doing more productive things in the economy, and it would be better if they did these other more productive things, and we didn't have this vast federal bureaucracy. So I was like, 'Hmm, maybe a couple years of pay would be good.' And then they could take a vacation, they could take another job and get double pay. It's not going to create an economic crisis. I think it's actually going to be really good, because people can move to where they're making products and services that are more useful to their fellow human beings.

问题是，如果一个人有 25 到 30 年的体制内职业生涯，他本质上就是政府系统的一部分。他的人生和职业都已经被编程为这个官僚系统的一部分，然后你说，“不，你必须出去在自由市场竞争。”人们会觉得“啊，这很可怕。”但你必须要有价值。你必须真正有价值。

The problem is if someone has like a 25-30 year career of being institutionalized, you're essentially like a part of the government system. You've sort of programmed your life and your career to be a part of this bureaucratic system, and then you're like, 'Nope, you have to go out and compete in the free market.' You're like, 'Ah, that's scary to people.' But you have to be valuable. You have to actually be valuable.

是的，是的。我是说，让我们看看……

Yeah, yeah. I mean, let's look...

比如政府养老金之类的，它们不会陷入困境。我认为它们财务状况会很好。你打算怎么有时间来监督这一切？

At like you know whatever the government pension and stuff, they're not going to be in tough. I think they'll be in good financial shape. How are you going to have the time to oversee all this?

嗯，我很擅长提高效率。我是说，我确实这么认为。但这仍然是个巨大的工程。是的，我可能需要加强安保。哦，是的，当然。但你知道，就像我说的，没有人会经历经济困难。他们会没事的。而且人们确实会找到其他角色。我的意思是，你可以看看东德和西德统一的时候。东德基本上所有人都在为政府工作，效率非常低。东德的经济产出只有西德的四分之一，因为所有人都在为政府工作。政府从根本上就是低效的。最好的例子可能是朝鲜和韩国。朝鲜人民在挨饿，而韩国非常繁荣。同样的人，只是不同的操作系统。所以你只是想把人们从低生产力的事情转移到高生产力的事情上。你也可以考虑另一个方向：如果我们把一大批从事商品和服务生产的私营部门人员调到政府当监管者，他们就不再生产那些商品和服务了。他们生产的东西不再可用，而他们现在只是监管者。这是好事吗？这不是好事。

Well, I'm pretty good at improving efficiency. I mean, I would say so. But still, this seems like a giant undertaking. Yeah, I'll probably need to beef up security. Oh yeah, yeah, for sure. But you know, like I said, no one's going to experience economic hardship. They'll be fine. And people do find other roles. I mean, you can look at when East Germany and West Germany got back together. Everyone was basically working for the government in East Germany, and it was really inefficient. Their economic output in East Germany was like a quarter of what it was in West Germany because everyone was working for the government. Government is fundamentally inefficient. The best example is probably North and South Korea. People are starving in North Korea, and South Korea is incredibly prosperous. Same people, just different operating system. So you just want to move people from less productive things to more productive things. You can also consider the other direction: if we moved a whole bunch of people from the private sector making goods and services into the government as regulators, they stop making those goods and services. The stuff they were making is no longer available, and now they're just regulators. Is that a good thing? That's not a good thing.

听起来不好。不，这不好。听起来没有真正的市场需求。你在创造一些不一定需要存在的岗位。基本上都是些假工作。这说不通。

Doesn't sound good. No, it's not good. Doesn't sound like there's a real market for it. You're creating jobs that don't necessarily need to be there. They're all these fake jobs basically. And that doesn't make sense.

所以听着，我们必须这么做，因为国家要破产了。如果我们不采取行动，美元将一文不值。利息支付已经占到政府全部收入的 23%——包括所得税、关税等等——现在这些钱都用来付利息了，而且这个数字还在不断上升。如果我们不做点什么，整个政府预算都将用来支付利息。就没有钱做任何事了。没有钱用于社会保障，没有钱用于医疗保险，什么都没有。这就是我们的方向。这就是破产的意思。

So look, we've got to do this because the country's going bankrupt. If we don't take action, the dollar will be worth nothing. The interest payments, which are already 23% of all government income — call it income taxes, tariffs, and everything — are just going to pay interest right now, and that number is continually rising. If we don't do something, the entire government budget will be paying interest. There won't be money for anything. No money for Social Security, no money for Medicare, nothing. That's where we're headed. That's what bankruptcy means.

这概念太疯狂了。是的。喂，醒醒，醒醒。如果有人能给我算笔账，告诉我这怎么行得通，我很乐意听听。但我看着这些数字，我觉得如果我们不做点什么，美国就完蛋了。什么钱都不会有。

That's such an insane concept. Yes. Hello, wake up, wake up. And if somebody can show me the math, show me how this works, I'd love to hear it. But I'm looking at the numbers here, and I'm like if we don't do something, America's toast. There won't be money for anything.

特朗普很喜欢谈论关税。你对关税有什么看法？我知道这很有争议。连经济学家都意见不一。有些人同意，有些人认为这是个好主意，有些人认为这是个糟糕的主意。你怎么看？

Trump likes to talk a lot about tariffs. What are your thoughts on tariffs? I know that's very controversial. Even economists disagree. Some agree, some think it's a good idea, some think it's a terrible idea. What do you think?

我认为你需要谨慎对待关税。我经常处理供应链问题。例如，特斯拉的全球汽车供应链极其复杂。所以当关税突然变化时，你在其他地方有一个工厂生产汽车零件。现在那个零件突然贵了一倍，就把一切都搞乱了。所以你希望关税是可预测的，这样公司就能调整他们的供应链。我认为公司非常乐意增加在美国的制造。只是你不能瞬间完成。如果你立即征收高额关税，而不给公司机会在美国建厂——因为你必须移动原子，建造建筑，安装设备，培训人员——这不会瞬间发生。所以你需要一个关税的缓冲期，让公司能够调整，建厂，培训人员，并安装好设备。否则，你只是冲击了系统，它就会崩溃或发生坏事。所以我反对突然征收高额关税，因为如果你要移动一千吨设备，或者总共几百万吨设备，这是不可能应对的。你不可能一夜之间做到。这根本不可能。所以我认为我们应该对关税深思熟虑，并给公司一个缓冲期。我总体上同意美国应该做更多的制造。我是一个制造迷。我喜欢制造。所以我花了很多时间在工厂里。

I think you need to be careful with tariffs. I deal a lot with supply chain issues. The global automotive supply chain for Tesla, for example, is incredibly complex. So when there are sudden changes in tariffs, then you have a factory somewhere else making a part that goes into the car. Now suddenly that part is twice as expensive, and it messes everything up. So you want tariffs to be predictable, so that companies can adjust their supply chain. I think companies are more than happy to increase manufacturing in America. It's just that you can't do it instantly. If you put up giant tariffs immediately and don't give companies a chance to build factories in America — because you have to move atoms, build a building, install equipment, train people — that doesn't happen instantly. So you want to have a ramp for tariffs so that companies can adjust, build the factories, train the people, and get the equipment in place. Otherwise, you just shock the system, and it breaks or bad things happen. So I'm against sudden giant tariffs because it's an impossible response if you have to move a thousand tons of equipment, or collectively millions of tons. You can't do that overnight. It's literally impossible. So I think we want to be thoughtful about tariffs and give companies a ramp. I do generally agree that America should do more manufacturing. I'm a big manufacturing guy. I love manufacturing. So I've spent a lot of time in the factory.

我们公开谈论过制造的困难以及它有多复杂。大多数人并不真正了解像制造一辆特斯拉这样复杂的事情。制造超级难，超级复杂。很多人从未进过工厂，或者不知道制造东西有多难。对很多人来说，他们以为番茄酱是从商店里来的。商店里就有。对于很多在学术界或社会主义共产主义类型的人来说，他们从未真正制造过任何东西。他们基于一个前提运作，那就是存在一个神奇的大聚宝盆，源源不断地输出商品和服务，如果有人比其他人拥有更多的商品和服务，那是因为他们从这个神奇的大聚宝盆里拿走了更多。我想说，伙计们，没有神奇的大聚宝盆。没有丰饶之角。商品和服务来自人们集体工作，付出大量辛勤劳动，生产出你喜欢和需要的商品和服务。但我们已经非常习惯这些东西在海外生产。美国仍然是世界第二大制造国，所以我们仍然制造很多东西，但我们可以制造更多。可能应该制造更多。我认为我们应该比现在更重视美国的制造业。

We've talked openly about the difficulties of manufacturing and how complicated it is. Most people aren't really aware of something as complex as building a Tesla. Manufacturing is super hard and complicated. A lot of people have never been in a factory or don't know how difficult it is to make things. For a lot of people, they think ketchup comes from the store. The store just has it. For a lot of people who've been in academia or socialist communist types, they've never actually made anything. They operate on the premise that there's this magical horn of plenty that just outputs goods and services, and if someone has more goods and services than someone else, it's because they took more from this magical horn of plenty. I'm like, guys, there's no magical horn of plenty. There's no cornucopia. Goods and services come from people working collectively, doing a lot of hard work to produce the goods and services that you like and need. But we've become very accustomed to these things happening overseas. America is still the second biggest manufacturer in the world, so we still make a lot of stuff, but we could make more. Probably should make more. I think we should value manufacturing a lot more in the United States than we currently do.

如果我们完全自给自足就好了，比如药品。有很多不同的东西在海外制造，这在新冠期间是个大问题，因为所有的航运都关闭了。

It would be very nice if we were completely self-sufficient, like medicine. There's a bunch of different things that get manufactured overseas that was a huge problem during COVID because all the shipping was shut down.

我的意思是，你不想说，所以比较优势经济学有很多优点。

I mean, you don't want to say like, so there's a lot of merit to the economics of comparative advantage.

所以，如果你完全自给自足，那就意味着你所有东西都自己造，即使别的国家很擅长造某样东西，你仍然自己造，这意味着你国内的产品会更差、更贵，对吧？就像苏联那样。贸易能提升繁荣，这很重要。所以你其实不想什么都自己造。你可以把这个思想实验放在微观或小规模上推演，然后扩大，问这个实验在哪个点上不再成立。考虑你作为个体的情况。想象你必须自己做所有事：你得种地、养鸡，想要鸡蛋就得自己盖房子、自己修电路、自己通水管，所有事都自己干。那是不可能的。现在扩大到 10 个人。你会有一些任务分工。也许一个人擅长建筑，另一个人擅长种地，但 10 个人还是不够。所以扩大到 100 人，再到 1 亿人，再到 10 亿人。你仍然会得到专业化的经济效应，即劳动分工，人们成为特定领域的专家。这在 10 亿人甚至地球上的 80 亿人时仍然成立。所以你仍然需要劳动分工。你确实希望各国擅长某样东西并制造它。此外，竞争能鼓励创新。如果德国人造的车更好，我们就得造更好的车来竞争，这正是 80 年代和 90 年代发生的事。美国造的车很烂，而德国造的好得多。

So if you complete self-sufficient, what that means is that you make all the stuff yourself, and even if some other country is really good at making something, you still make it yourself, which means you're going to have the inferior, more costly product domestically, right? Like Soviet Russia, yeah. Like trade improves prosperity. This is important. So you don't actually want to make everything yourself. You can run this thought experiment on a micro scale or small scale, and then expand that and say at what point does the experiment no longer prove to be valid. Let's consider the case of you as an individual. Imagine you have to do everything yourself: you had to farm, you had to grow chickens, if you want eggs, you've got to build your own house, you've got to do your own electrical repair, your own plumbing, everything yourself. That would be impossible. Now let's expand it to 10 people. Now you're going to have some specialization of tasks. Maybe one person can be really good at construction, another person could be good at farming, but it's still not enough. So let's go to 100 people, now let's go to 100 million people, now let's go to a billion people. You still get the economics of specialization, like specialization of labor where people become expert at particular things. It still matters at a billion people or at 8 billion people, which is Earth. So you still want specialization of labor. You do want countries to be really good at a particular thing and make that thing. Also, it encourages innovation if you have competition. If the Germans are making better cars, we have to make better cars. We have to compete with them, which is one of the things that happened during the 80s and 90s. America was making crap cars and Germany was making much better ones.

没错。我的意思是，日本汽车，基本上美国汽车工业在 70 年代和 80 年代变得非常懒惰，然后日本和德国汽车公司进来，把他们打得落花流水。有个老笑话很能说明问题：为什么日本汽车公司打败了美国汽车公司？在日本汽车公司，有八个人划船，一个人掌舵；在美国汽车公司，有八个人掌舵，一个人划船。如果这是一场划船比赛，日本船：八个人划船，一个人掌舵。美国船：一个人划船，八个人掌舵。当美国汽车公司输了比赛，他们就把划船的人炒了。这其实有点真实。每个人都想当老板，没人想干活。

Yeah, exactly. I mean the Japanese car, I mean basically American car industry got really lazy in the 70s and 80s, and then the Japanese and German car companies came in and just cleaned the clock. There was an old joke that is kind of telling. It's a very old joke: why did the Japanese car companies beat the American car companies? Well, in the Japanese car company you had eight people rowing and one person steering, and in the American car company you had eight people steering and one person rowing. If this was a boat race, Japanese boat: eight people rowing, one person steering. American boat: one person rowing, eight people steering. When the American car company loses the race, they fire the rower. That was actually kind of true. One thing is everyone wants to be the boss, and nobody wants to do the work.

很多人担心的是自动化和 AI 将带来的颠覆，很多工作，比如制造业、卡车司机等都会被淘汰。你怎么看？你身处这个领域的前沿，所以你觉得这会如何发展？你认为可以做些什么来缓解很多人会感受到的目标感丧失？收入损失显然是个问题，全民基本收入被提出来，但在我看来这只是问题的一部分。另一个大问题是人们失去目标感。

One thing that a lot of people are concerned about is the potential disruption that's going to come about with automation and AI, that a lot of these jobs, manufacturing jobs, Teamsters, all that stuff is going to be eliminated. What do I mean? You're at the forefront of this, so how do you see this playing out, and what do you think can be done to mitigate a lot of the loss of purpose that a lot of people are going to feel? Loss of income obviously, Universal Basic Income is being floated about, but that seems to me to only be part of the problem. The other big part of the problem is people losing a sense of purpose.

是的，我们现在谈论的仍然是相当遥远的未来。你觉得有多远？大概 15 到 20 年吧。所以我们有眼前的问题，短期问题（1 到 3 年），中期问题（5 到 10 年），长期问题（大概 20 年）。长期来看，我认为有一个问题：如果有了 AI 和机器人，当电脑和机器人能做所有事并且比你做得更好时，你如何找到生活的意义？但我们离那一步还很远。而且我确实认为有 80% 的可能性是好结果，也许是 90%。所以我认为每个人都会有自己的个人机器人，就像个人 C-3PO 或 R2-D2。这基本上就像每个人都有一部手机。每个人都会有自己的机器人伙伴。如果它能保护你就太好了，比如你走在纽约街头，身边有个终结者。但希望我们能避免那种情况。我们不想让这成为詹姆斯·卡梅隆的电影情节。我们更想要吉恩·罗登伯里的风格，而不是詹姆斯·卡梅隆。但看着某个富人走在纽约街头，两边各有一个巨大的特斯拉机器人，那会很有趣。特斯拉机器人保护你免受坏社区的侵害。那会非常有趣。你可能会看到这种情况。餐厅可能会规定禁止机器人入内：把你的机器人留在外面，让它站在桌边。未来会很疯狂。它会非常不可预测。我不认为大多数人理解即将到来的浪潮。它会彻底淹没社会并永远改变它。这不会一夜之间发生，但 20 年后，我认为人形机器人的数量会超过人类。真的吗？是的。那太疯狂了。就像美国枪支比人多一样，美国机器人也会比人多。你会有很多没人要的旧机器人。在历史时间线上，过去 20 年不算什么大事。从 1900 到 1920 年，没什么大不了的。1920 到 1940 年，算是大事。1940 到 1960 年，事情开始变得奇怪。60 到 80 年，哇，差别很大。80 到 2000 年，天哪，现在有了互联网。2000 到 2020 年，哇，这太疯狂了：宣传、社交媒体、YouTube、流媒体。20 年后，我们甚至会在谈论什么？变化会那么大。

Yeah, now we're talking about something which is still pretty far in the future. How far do you think it is? Well, it's probably 15, 20 years. So we've got immediate issues, short-term issues that are 1 to 3 years, medium-term issues like 5 to 10 years, longer-term issues which are maybe 20 years. Longer term, I think there is this question: if you have AI and robotics, how do you find meaning in life if the computer can do everything better than you can and the robot can do everything better than you can? But we're still a long way to go before that. And I do think it's like 80% likely to be a good outcome, maybe 90%. So I think everyone's going to have their own personal robot, like a personal C-3PO or R2-D2. It's going to be essentially just like everyone has their own phone. Everyone will have their own robot buddy. It would be great if it protected you, like if you walked down the street of New York City, have a Terminator with you. But hopefully we avoid that. We don't want this to be the plot of James Cameron. We want more Gene Roddenberry than James Cameron. But it would be fascinating to watch some rich person walk down the street of New York City flanked by two giant Tesla robots. Tesla robots there to protect you from a bad neighborhood. That would be very interesting. You could potentially see that. Restaurants would probably have no robot rules: leave your robot outside, your robot standing by the table. The future's going to be wild. It's going to be really unpredictable. I don't think most people understand the wave that's coming. It's going to completely drown society and change it forever. It's not going to happen overnight, but 20 years from now, I think there will be more humanoid robots than humans. Really? Yes. That's crazy. So like, we have more guns than people in America, we'll have more robots than people in America as well. You have a bunch of old robots nobody wants anymore. In a historical timeline, 20 years in the past is not that big of a deal. From 1900 to 1920, not that big of a deal. 1920 to 1940, kind of a big deal. 1940 to 1960, things start getting weird. 60 to 80, wow, that's a big difference. 80 to 2000, holy, now you have the internet. 2000 to 2020, whoa, this is nuts: propaganda, social media, YouTube, streaming. 20 years from now, like what are we even talking about? It's going to be that much of a shift.

技术正在加速，而我们正处于其中，所以很难在发生时真切感受到。它只是感觉像生活本身，你逐渐适应了这些变化。

Accelerating and we're in the middle of it, so it's very difficult to sort of feel it while it's happening. It kind of just feels like life, and you just get adapted to the changes.

是的，我的意思是，现在的手机就是口袋里的超级计算机，就像一篇能回答任何问题的文章。人们对此习以为常。

Yeah, I mean people's phones at this point are a supercomputer in their pocket, like an article that can answer any questions. People just take it for granted.

是啊，这很正常。如果它不工作，他们还会生气。

Yeah, it's normal. Yeah, they get mad if it doesn't work.

是的，就像路易·C·K 关于在飞机上用手机的笑话：你在空中漂浮，而现在它也能用星链了。

Yeah, it's like Louis CK's joke about using your phone on a plane: you're in the sky floating in the air, and now it will work with Starlink too.

什么？它会用星链？星链连接？就像在地面上一样。

What's that? It will work with Starlink? The Starlink connection? It'll be like being on the ground.

嗯，我跟你讲过我在犹他州用星链的事。我在犹他州的山区，附近完全没有手机信号，但我们能看 YouTube、发短信、用 FaceTime、打电话，什么都能做。太疯狂了。

Well, I was telling you how I used Starlink when I was in Utah. I was in the mountains of Utah, there was no cell phone service anywhere near, and we had full YouTube, we had text messages, FaceTime, everything, phone calls. It was nuts.

是啊，而且它只有那个雪茄盒那么大。太疯狂了。它非常轻。我把它带到那里时，他们问：就这个？我插上电，和我一起露营的家伙们都说，这太疯狂了。整个营地都在共享它，大概 10 个人用 Wi-Fi 信号。没错，太不可思议了。

Yeah, and it was this big as that cigar box. Yeah, it's crazy. It's so light. When I brought it out there, like that's it? I just plug it in, and the guys I was in camp with, they were like, this is crazy. Yeah, the whole camp was sharing it, like 10 people using the Wi-Fi signal. Right, it's nuts.

是的，而且你知道这只是开始。你现在用的是哪个版本？这是星链 Mini 对吧？所以这是一个非常小的版本。它能缩小到什么程度？

Yep, and then you know that's the beginning. I mean, what you're at right now is like what version? This is Starlink Mini, right? So this is like a very small version. How much smaller can it scale down from that?

嗯，你需要一定的面积。面积越大，带宽就越大，因为你本质上是在捕捉光子。所以你可以把天线面积想象成：面积越大，能捕捉的光子就越多。但我们也有直接到手机的能力，刚刚开始发射。大概几个月后就会启用。它将能直接连接到未经修改的手机。但由于手机天线比专用天线差得多，带宽会低大约 100 倍，但你仍然可以发短信、图片、中等分辨率视频之类的。

Well, there's a certain area that you need. The bigger the area, the more you can like bandwidth, because you're trying to catch these photons essentially. So you can think of the area of the antenna: the more area you have, the more photons you can catch. But we have a direct-to-cell capability as well that we're just launching. That will turn on in probably a few months. That'll actually connect directly to a cell phone unmodified. But because the cell phone is a much worse antenna than a dedicated antenna, it'll be about 100 times less bandwidth, but still you'll be able to do text messages, pictures, medium resolution videos, that kind of thing.

新手机 iPhone 16 的一个很酷的功能是，我上个月在山区时，用卫星发短信。是的，iMessage，对吧？还能接收，但只是文字。嗯，只是文字。但还是很令人印象深刻。

One of the cool things about the new phone, the new iPhone 16, I got it and I was in the mountains last month and I was text messaging with satellites. Yeah, iMessages, right? And receiving them, but just text. Yeah, just text. But still pretty impressive.

是啊。我的意思是，100 年后我们会看到什么？

Yeah, yeah. I mean, what are we going to be looking at 100 years from now?

100 年后，我希望文明还在。是的，那就算赢了。

100 years from now, I hope civilization's around. Yeah, that'll be a win.

是啊。我们搞砸这一切的概率有多大？50%？很难说。我的意思是，我不认为文明会被完全摧毁，除非发生某种大规模全球热核战争。但斯蒂芬·霍金会说，每个世纪至少有 1% 的彻底毁灭概率。那是他的粗略估计。但文明能力不如今天的可能性要大得多。因为如果你看看历史上的各种文明，无论是古代苏美尔人、埃及人还是罗马人，它们都有生命周期：达到顶峰然后开始衰落。所以我认为更大的问题是，100 年后我们的技术水平会比今天更好还是更差。我认为可能会更好，但任何估计都有太多依赖因素。我认为一个估计不一定有意义，因为 100 年里可能发生太多事情。

Yeah, yeah. What are the chances that we blow this whole thing up? 50%? It's hard to say. I mean, I don't think civilization will be totally destroyed unless there's some really massive global thermonuclear war. But Stephen Hawking would say that there's at least a 1% chance of total annihilation every century. That was his rough estimate. But there's a much bigger chance of civilization being less capable than it is today. Because if you look at various civilizations throughout history, whether it's the ancient Sumerians, the Egyptians, the Romans, they have a life cycle: they reached a peak and then started subsiding. So I think a bigger question is whether our technology level will be better or worse than it is today in 100 years. I think it's probably going to be better, but any estimates are going to have so many dependencies. An estimate, I think, is not sure it has any meaning, because there are so many things that can happen in 100 years.

嗯，合乎逻辑的希望总是人们关注历史，认识到文明崩溃的模式，并意识到当前社会出了什么问题，然后说我们必须尽力缓解。我们以前见过这种情况，让我们纠正方向，管理好我们现在拥有的，因为它非常非凡。

Well, the logical hope is always that people pay attention to history and recognize the patterns of how civilizations have collapsed, and recognize what's going wrong in the current society, and say we have to do our best to mitigate this. We've seen this happen before, let's course correct and manage what we've got here now, because it's pretty extraordinary.

是的，这就是我们对这次选举的希望。这就是我们对未来的希望：人们可以看到我们走在一条糟糕的道路上，现在可以做一些事情，这可能是历史上唯一可能的时刻。因为如果他们真的封锁国家，让投票变成你是在为初选投票，而他们放在初选里的人从一开始就受他们控制，那么你就不再真正拥有民主了。你不再真正有选择。没错。你不再真正有自由。对。

Yes, this is what we're hoping for with this election. This is what we're hoping for with the future: that people can see we are on a bad path and something can be done right now, and it might be the only moment in history where this is possible. Because if they do lock the country down and make it so that voting is kind of you're voting for primaries and the people that they put in the primaries, they're controlling that in the first place, you don't really have democracy anymore. You don't really have choice. Exactly. You don't really have freedom. That's right.

是的，我认为自由在明天的选举中岌岌可危，我们会知道的。我认为明天结束前就会知道。我认为不会等到选举后几天。我认为明天就会知道。你乐观吗？

Yeah, I think freedom is fundamentally at stake in the election tomorrow, and we'll know. I think we'll know by the end of day tomorrow. I don't think it's going to take days after the election. I think we'll know tomorrow. Are you optimistic?

我目前是乐观的，但这里最大的因素是男性需要投票。这是最大的问题。我不知道原因是什么，但男性的投票率远低于女性。我想大概是 9%？今天有人刚告诉我。这是一个很大的差距。我只想说，这是给所有男性的信息：像你的生命取决于此一样去投票，因为我认为确实如此。明天去投票，就像你的生命取决于此一样。没有什么比这更重要了。

I am currently optimistic, but the biggest factor here is that men need to vote. That is the biggest issue. I don't know what the reason is, but men just vote at a much lower rate than women. I think it's like 9%? Someone just told me that today. It's a big difference. And I'm just saying, this is a message to the men out there: vote like your life depends on it, because I think it does. Vote tomorrow like your life depends on it. Nothing is more important.

我同意。是的，听着，伙计，谢谢你来到这里。我知道你很忙，所以我真的很感激你的时间。再次，我非常感谢你买下 Twitter，因为我真的相信你改变了历史的进程。我真的认为你创造了一条人们可以真正表达自己和交换信息的途径，这在以前并不存在，而且我认为它曾经很危险。它确实很危险。

I agree. Yeah, listen, man, thank you for being here. I know you're busy, so I really appreciate your time. And again, I thank you so much for buying Twitter, because I really do believe that you've changed the course of history. I really do think you've created a pathway where people can actually express themselves and exchange information that really didn't exist before, and I think it was dangerous. It is dangerous.

希望我能活得足够长，看到我的孩子长大，看到人类登上火星。这就是我在这里所要求的。我不认为这太过分。

Hopefully I live long enough to see my kids grow up and people on Mars. That's all I'm asking for here. I don't think that's too much to happen.

非常感谢。很感激。谢谢。荣幸。好的，再见。

Thank you very much. Appreciate it. Thank you. Pleasure. All right, bye.