高通 CEO 克里斯蒂亚诺·安蒙：带领芯片巨头超越移动领域

他们的芯片存在于我们日常使用的许多设备中，但高通仍然远非家喻户晓的名字。高通新任 CEO 克里斯蒂亚诺·安蒙希望改变这一点。30 年前，安蒙作为一名年轻工程师加入公司，后被选中接替前 CEO 史蒂夫·莫伦科夫。

Their chips are in so many of the devices we use every day, but Qualcomm is still far from being a household name. Cristiano Amon, Qualcomm's new CEO, wants to change that. After joining the company 30 years ago as a young engineer, Amon was tapped to succeed former CEO Steve Mollenkopf.

如果我们一起上战场，他会是个了不起的狙击手。而我会一直射击，直到你弹药耗尽。

If we were in a battle together, he would be an incredible sniper shooter. I would just shoot until you run out of ammunition.

安蒙在巴西长大，在日本找到了第一份移动行业的工作，从此再未离开。他陪伴高通度过了与最大客户之一苹果的漫长法律战，并希望引领高通进入一个新时代，将业务从移动领域扩展到汽车、云计算、物联网、VR、AR 等。他计划如何实现？欢迎高通 CEO 克里斯蒂亚诺·安蒙做客本期 Bloomberg Studio 1.0。

Amon grew up in Brazil, got his first job in Japan in the mobile industry, and never left. He served Qualcomm through prolonged legal battles with one of its biggest customers, Apple, and hopes to usher in a new era for Qualcomm that expands beyond mobile to autos, cloud computing, IoT, VR, AR, and more. How does he plan to do it? Joining me on this edition of Bloomberg Studio 1.0, Qualcomm CEO Cristiano Amon.

克里斯蒂亚诺，非常高兴你能来。

Cristiano, so great to have you here.

很高兴来到这里。

Very happy to be here.

很高兴见到你本人。

Good to see you in person.

我也非常高兴。

I'm very happy.

你担任总裁时我们曾面对面交谈过，但情况已经变了。

And we talked in person when you were president, but things have changed.

是变了，但挺好。

Has changed, but it's good.

现在的生活和以前不同，还是没太大不同？

Is life different or not that different to what it was?

有点不同。我以前也很忙，一直负责半导体业务，2018 年起担任总裁，但现在确实不同了。多少感受到 CEO 职责的重量。虽然忙，但乐在其中，尤其是公司正在转型，不过我还是那个我。

A bit different. I was busy before, you know, I've been running the semiconductor business, I've been president since '18, but it is different. Kind of feel the weight of the responsibility of the CEO job. Having fun, but busy, especially as the company is transforming, but I'm still the same guy.

我想聊聊那个你。你的成长经历是怎样的？你小时候是个什么样的孩子？

I want to talk about that guy. What was your upbringing like? What kind of kid were you?

我小时候非常活跃，有点多动。我选择工程大概是因为我爸爸是工程师，但我妈妈会说我把所有玩具拆开再装回去。所以我想这是我想做工程相关事情的迹象，不过是的，我是个普通孩子。小时候我喜欢放学后和别的孩子在街上玩。在巴西很多事就是踢足球。我经常踢球，对在巴西的时光有着美好的回忆。

You know, I was a very active kid. I was somewhat hyperactive. I guess I chose engineering because my dad was an engineer, but my mom would tell me that I would break apart all the toys and put them back together. So I guess it was a sign I want to do something with engineering, but yeah, I was a normal kid. I like as a kid come back to school, play on the streets with the other kids. Brazil a lot of things that you do you just play soccer. And then I did a lot of that, but yeah, I had wonderful memories of the time in Brazil.

你大学毕业后在日本找到了第一份工作。

You got your first job out of college in Japan.

那时是手机发展的初期，我受雇于日本公司 NEC。它现在是我们客户之一。那是他们在巴西部署模拟蜂窝网络的开始。我记得我在那里工作时有一部手机，人们会问：“这是什么？”当时很少有人有手机。

Was at the beginning of the cell phone and I got a job I was hired by Japanese company NEC. It's one of our customers today. That was the beginning where they were deploying analog cellular in Brazil. I remember when I was working there and I had a cell phone and people say, "What is this?" There was very few people with cell phone at the time.

我之前没意识到，你其实从职业生涯开始就一直从事移动行业。

What I didn't realize is you've actually always been working in the mobile industry since the beginning of your career.

从职业生涯开始就是。

Since the beginning of my career.

早在移动行业成型之前，早在高通成为今天的高通之前。事情的发展如你所想象吗？

Since before mobile was mobile. Since before Qualcomm. As we know it, has it unfolded the way you imagined?

不，我想没人能这么说。我们一直都知道，这要回溯到我早期在高通的职业生涯。我们一直知道无线行业的巨大潜力。但你知道，如果你想想我们最初的目标是让每个人都有一部电话，对吧？世界上每个人都能有无绳电话吗？一旦实现这一点，你就会想：“好吧，如果我们把它连接到互联网呢？”互联网当时也刚起步。想到无线行业今天的样子，我们掌中有一台计算机，智能手机创造的社会变革，我认为这是我们无法预测的。这太不可思议了，我感到非常幸运整个职业生涯都在蜂窝行业工作。

No, I don't think nobody can say that. We always knew and this is go back to I think my early Qualcomm career. We always knew about the incredible potential of the wireless industry. But you know, if you think about where we started in getting everyone a telephone, right? Can everybody in the world have a telephone without wires? Once you get to that, you think about, "Well, what if we connect this to the internet?" The internet was also starting at the time. To think what this wireless industry is today, we have a computer in the palm of our hands and the transformation of this society that created by the smartphone, I think there's not something we could predict. It has incredible and I feel very fortunate to be working in cellular my entire career.

你 1995 年加入高通。是的。超过 25 年前。你是如何一步步晋升的？

You joined Qualcomm in 1995. Yes. More than 25 years ago. How did you rise through the ranks?

我想我做出了正确的选择，从事重要的工作。我一直对技术充满热情。我认为在高通职业生涯中帮助我的一件事是——我不知道这是不是真的，他们告诉我我能做到——能够预见未来，从战略上思考问题。但是的，这是一段不可思议的旅程，我爱这家公司。高通对工程师来说是个了不起的地方，对我来说成为 CEO 是职业和个人层面的巨大成就。我认为也有来自巴西和拉丁美洲的人带来他们的……我想我们中很少有人能升到那个位置。所以我也感到巨大的责任，成为人们可以看着说“看，我们也能做到”的人。

I guess I made the right choices to be working on things that were important. I always had a passion for technology. I think one of the things that helped me within my career at Qualcomm is I don't know if it's true, they tell me I do that. To be able to see through corners, think strategically about things. But yes, it's an incredible journey and I love this company. Qualcomm is an incredible place for engineers and for me to get to the CEO it's an incredible achievement both professionally and personally. I think there's also somebody come from Brazil with a Latin America bringing their... There very few I think of us that rose to that position. So I also feel an incredible responsibility of the weight I've been somebody that people can look at and say look we can do that.

作为移民 CEO 是什么感觉？你觉得你的经历有什么不同吗？

What's it like being an immigrant CEO? Do you think there's something different about your experience?

当你有着不同的成长经历，你可以将其转化为优势，拥有可以带到工作中的经验集合。在巴西做生意不容易。有时你没有同样的资源。你会面临很多逆境。成长过程中我们经历了恶性通货膨胀，有时一个月高达 30%、40%。你必须应对逆境，必须在胜算不大时做出决定。我把这些带在身上，我认为这对我的职业生涯有帮助。

When you have a different upbringing, you can put that to your advantage as having a collection of experience that you can bring to place. It's not easy doing business in Brazil. You don't sometimes you don't have the same resources. You have a lot of adversity. Growing up we had hyperinflation you know a lot of the at some point like 30 40% a month. And you have to deal with adversity and you have to make decision when the odds are not great. I took that with me and I think it had helped me in my career.

你的前任史蒂夫·莫伦科夫风格更随和、更谨慎。他非常擅长处理高通不得不应对的棘手法律问题，但不喜欢聚光灯。你们的领导风格有何不同？

Your predecessor Steve Mollenkopf had a more laid-back more cautious style. Was very good at dealing with the thorny legal issues that Qualcomm had to deal with but didn't love the spotlight. How are your leadership styles different?

我们合作得非常好，因为我认为我们非常互补。史蒂夫非常深思熟虑、非常善于分析。如果我以积极的方式打个比方，如果我们一起上战场，史蒂夫会是个了不起的狙击手。而我会一直射击，直到你弹药耗尽。但我们合作得非常好。我要说我的风格是，我喜欢同时做很多事情。我认为这就是我成功的原因，并且非常专注于推动高通的多元化，进入所有那些不同的行业。并不是我喜欢聚光灯，我想这个行业的我们都得习惯这样做，但我觉得我有不可思议的机会，几乎是一种义务，去讲述高通的故事。公司在改变。我们有新的故事要讲，我觉得我有机会做到这一点。

We work so well together because I think we're very complimentary. I think Steve is very thoughtful, very analytical. You know, I think if I, you know, in a positive way if I use this metaphor, I think Steve would be if we were in a battle together, he would be an incredible sniper shooter. I would just shoot until you run out of ammunition. And but we work very very well together. I am I will say my style is you know, I like doing many things at the same time. I think that's why I have been successful and been very focused in driving the diversification of Qualcomm as we go to all those different industries. It's not like I like the spotlight as I think all of us in this industry get to get used to, you know, to do this, but I feel I have an incredible opportunity and almost like an obligation to tell the story about Qualcomm. Company's changing. We have a new story to tell and I feel in the opposition, I have an opportunity to do that.

我发现你对竞争要直率得多。我想知道这是你激励团队的方式吗？这是你激励工程师的方式吗？

You're a lot more forthright, I found, about the competition. And I wonder is that how you motivate the team? Is that how you motivate engineers?

我们行业变化太快了。我们一直致力于一款芯片的研发长达 4 年。在芯片问世之前，我们必须提前 4 年思考那时市场会需要什么，市场会是什么样。然后我们推出了这款花了 4 年研发的不可思议的芯片，它可能在 12 个月内就过时了。

Our industry changed so fast. We've been working we'll be working on a chip for 4 years. We have to 4 years before the chip ever see the light of day, we have to think about what the market will want at that time, what the market will be. And then we launched this incredible chip that we work on for 4 years and it can get obsolete in 12 months.

我们还必须做点别的事，对吧？所以，我们必须不断重塑自我，而我认为成功的关键要素是永不满足、始终挑战自我。竞争对高通一直有好处，对所有人都有好处。我认为它让我们保持诚实，让我们更努力，尝试承担经过衡量的风险去做不同的事并脱颖而出。我一直说要以这种方式面对竞争。

And we have to do something else, right? So, we have to be reinventing ourselves and for that, I think the key ingredient for success is to never be complacent, to always be challenging ourselves. Competition has always been good for Qualcomm. It's good for everyone. I think it keeps us honest, it keeps us driving harder and trying to take measured risks to do something different and to differentiate ourselves. And I have always said face competition that way.

我们现在在芯片短缺问题上处于什么阶段？

Where are we in the chip shortage now?

现实是，Emily，我们什么都缺。

Reality, Emily, we're short on everything.

高通过去几年被非常大的法律挑战所主导。那些法律挑战已经永远过去了吗？

Qualcomm's last few years were dominated by really big legal challenges. Are those legal challenges behind you for good?

所有这些现在都已过去。我认为，尤其是在我们的许可业务方面，我们正处于公司历史上最稳定的时期之一。我从公司创立之初就在公司，在公司历史上，我们的许可业务从未如此稳定。我认为我们的模式已经被全球所有监管机构磨砺得更加坚韧。我们非常高兴我们的许可业务价值得到认可，也为我们给行业带来的贡献感到高兴。我们对此感觉很好。

All of those are behind us right now. I would argue that we are especially as relate to our licensing business, we have one of the most stable times in the history of the company. I've been with the company since the very beginning and in the history of the company, we never had more stability in the licensing business. And I'll argue that our model has been battle hardened by all regulators across the globe. And we feel very good about having the value of our licensing business recognized, but also what we bring to the industry. And we feel good about it.

尤其是你们与苹果的关系经历了几年困难时期和激烈的诉讼。今天这段关系如何？

Your relationship with Apple in particular went through a few difficult years, bitter lawsuits. Where is that relationship today?

关系很好。我们与他们有多年协议。高通远不止与苹果的关系。高通在移动领域凭借 5G 有巨大机会，尤其是新玩家正在崛起。看到像小米这样的公司成为欧洲第二，真是不可思议。现在，他们本月可能在出货量上排名第一，这太惊人了。我们正通过连接边缘的一切，成为即将到来的云经济的关键要素。这是公司多元化的一部分。所以我们对此非常高兴，我认为公司最终将是一家拥有众多关系的公司。

Relationship is great. We have a multi-year agreement with them. There's a lot more to Qualcomm than the Apple relationship. Qualcomm has an incredible opportunity in mobile with 5G especially as new players are rising. It's incredible to see companies like Xiaomi becoming the number two in the world in Europe. Now, they're probably this month they're number one in shipments, which is incredible. And we are becoming the essential ingredient for all of this cloud economy that is upon us by connecting everything on the edge. And that's part of how the company is diversifying. So, we're very happy about that and I think the company at the very end will be a company of many relationships.

人们没有意识到高通的芯片为我们如此依赖的众多设备提供动力。你认为高通应该更像苹果、谷歌、Facebook 那样家喻户晓吗？

People don't realize that Qualcomm chips power so many of the devices that we are so dependent on. Do you think Qualcomm should be more of a household name like Apple, like Google, like Facebook?

你看，我很有偏向性，所以答案绝对是肯定的。我们这场严重的半导体危机一直很难摆脱。如果我能指出这场危机带来的一件积极的事，那就是更广泛的社会意识到芯片非常重要，以及半导体公司所扮演的角色。芯片很重要。人们有兴趣了解芯片。我认为这创造了机会，让人们意识到高通的存在有多广泛，并超越手机来思考。

Look, I'm very partial, so the answer would be absolutely yes. And we have this incredible semiconductor crisis, which has been very difficult to get out of. If I can point one positive thing that came out of this crisis is the broader society realized that chips are very important. And the role the semiconductor companies play. Chips are important. People are interested to know about chips. And I think that creates opportunity for people to realize how broad Qualcomm presence is and think beyond phones.

我们现在在芯片短缺问题上处于什么阶段？

Where are we in the chip shortage now?

好一些了。我们还没有摆脱。我们在过去两次财报电话会议上一直说，我们预计在今年年底会看到实质性改善。我们将进入供需更加平衡的局面。

Better. We're not out of it. We have said consistently in the past two earnings calls that we see material improvements coming to us at the end of this year of the calendar year. And we are going to enter with a much more balanced equation between supply and demand.

所有芯片还是部分芯片？

For all chips or just some chips?

我们大多数芯片。我认为会有两个例外。现实是，Emily，我们什么都缺。就像我们参与的每个行业的每个产品，我们都缺。如果半导体公司进来说我们不缺，你应该担心他们，因为我认为所有行业的需求都非常高。我们看到这种加速的数字化转型正在发生。我们很幸运有规模进行多源采购，制定产能扩张计划，这些将在今年年底实现。所以，当我们进入 2022 年时，我们绝大多数业务的供需将开始匹配。

For the majority of our chips. I think there are going to be two exceptions. Reality, Emily, we're short on everything. Like on every single product across every single industry that we participate in, we're short. If semiconductor companies come in and say we are not short, you should be worried about them because I think the demand is very high across all industry. We see this accelerated digital transformation happening. And we were fortunate to have scale to multi-source, put capacity expansion plans in place, and those are going to come to fruition as we get to the end of this calendar year. So, as we enter 2022, we're going to see for the absolute majority of our business supply and demand will start to match.

哪些芯片是最大的例外？哪些需要最长时间恢复？

Which chips are the biggest exceptions? Which are going to take the longest to come back?

电源管理 IC 出现了非常广泛的行业短缺。此外，当你想到电气化、电动汽车时，电池使用大量电源管理 IC，而那些产能是有限的。行业一直没有投资于那部分产能。

There has been a very broad industry shortage of power management IC. Also, when you think about electrification, electric cars, the batteries use a lot of power management ICs, and those capacity was but finite. The industry has not been investing in that capacity.

所以，这就是为什么 Elon Musk 一直在抱怨这个吗？

So, is that why Elon Musk has been complaining about this?

我认为总的来说，每个人都在抱怨传统技术的短缺。但即使是那些也将上线，我们对 2022 年的情况会感觉良好。

I think in general, everyone is complaining about the shortage of legacy technology. But even those are going to come online and we'll feel good about where we're going to be in 2022.

但你是说汽车芯片尤其会更困难吗？

But are you saying that chips in cars in particular are going to have more difficulty?

疫情期间发生了什么，你知道，供需脱节。但汽车中数字化的比例正在以非常快的速度增长。我认为汽车行业正在转型。汽车中的电子设备变得极其重要。这就是我们的汽车业务增长如此之快的原因之一。我认为汽车总体上只是消耗更多 IC、更多硅。这就是为什么这个行业需要更长一点时间恢复。但你知道，即使总的来说，我认为全球所有行业，我们将在 2022 年下半年摆脱这场危机。我认为汽车行业可能整个 2022 年都在恢复。我们也看到消费电子中的一些领域也需要更长时间恢复。但总的来说，当我们进入 22 年上半年时，我认为整个危机已经过去。

What happened in the pandemic and you got, you know, you had disconnect between supply and demand. But the percentage of digital in cars are increasing at a very fast pace. I think the car industry is transforming. Electronics in the car are becoming extremely important. That's part why our automotive business is growing so fast. And I think the car in general is just consuming more IC, more silicon. And that's why this industry is going to take a little longer to recover. But you know, even in general, I'd say globally across all industries, we're going to be out of this crisis as we get to the second half of 2022. I think the automotive industry is probably going to throughout 2022 to recover. We also see pockets within consumer electronics that they're also going to take longer to recover. But in general, as we get to the first half of '22, I think this entire crisis is behind us.

你帮助推动了行业在 5G 上的合作。5G 现在已经到来。这不仅仅是速度提升，还是 6G 即将到来？

You helped bring the industry together on 5G. 5G is now here. Is this more than just a speed bump or is 6G around the corner?

这远不止是速度提升。它从手机开始。手机，我认为从高端和高端层级来看，过渡几乎已经完成。5G 的最大特性尚未规模化，它们将非常具有变革性。想想公司现在转向酒店式办公，人们可以在任何地方工作。这不仅仅是速度提升。这是将云的力量带到每台设备。

It's much more than a speed bump. It starts with phones. Phones, I would argue that transition is almost already done from the premium and the high tiers. The biggest features of 5G are not yet in scale, and they're going to be very transformative. Think about companies now moving to hotelling, and people have work from anywhere. That's more than a speed bump. It's about bringing the power of the clouds to every device.

那么，6G 何时到来？还有多远？

So, when 6G? How far away is that?

我们已经在研究 6G。我们衡量每十年有一个新 G。5G 原定于 2020 年推出。我们加速了 1 年，在 19 年推出。你应该想到到 2030 年，应该是 6G 成为焦点的时候，但我们还有一段路要走。

We are already working on 6G. We measure every decade you have a new G. 5G was originally scheduled to launch in 2020. We accelerated by 1 year, we're launching 19. You should think about by 2030, you should be the time for 6G to come to the spotlight, but we have some ways to go.

你告诉我们，定义你在高通任期成功的一部分是进入新市场，无论是汽车、PC 还是网络。什么会先突破，什么需要更长时间？

You've told us that part of what will define your tenure in Qualcomm success in it is moving into new markets, whether it's cars, PCs, networking. What's going to break out first, and what'll take longer?

我们在汽车领域肯定已经到位。我们有 100 亿美元的合同管道，以及 10 亿美元的收入。我们在物联网上才刚刚起步，我们有一些新机会可能随时实现，比如手机和 PC 的转换。

We are definitely already there with auto. We have a $10 billion contracted pipeline, and we have 1 billion into revenues. We're scratching the surface on IoT, and we have some new opportunities that could materialize any moment, like the conversions of phones and PCs.

与此同时，ARM 当然以其移动芯片技术闻名，是生态系统中极其重要的一部分，高通是其大客户。ARM 到目前为止一直是中立的一方。英伟达正试图收购 ARM，英伟达 CEO 黄仁勋表示他不打算改变这种中立性，但你说过你认为所有权变更不是好事。为什么？

Meantime, ARM, which is of course best known for its mobile chip technology, hugely important part of the ecosystem, Qualcomm is a big customer. ARM has been a neutral party up to this point. Nvidia's trying to buy ARM, and the CEO of Nvidia, Jensen Huang, says he doesn't plan for that neutrality to change, but you've said you don't think that change of ownership is a good thing. Why not?

毫无疑问，ARM 已经赢了。想想手机，它们赢了，全都由 ARM CPU 驱动。电脑，正在到来。看看苹果用 M1 转向 ARM 做了什么。我们正把 ARM 带到 Windows 生态系统。所以他们在 PC 领域正在获胜。汽车领域，已经赢了，是 ARM。我认为英伟达即使不收购 ARM，他们也宣布了用于数据中心的 ARM CPU。亚马逊用 ARM 做 Graviton，谷歌也在做 ARM。所以我认为，退一步看，ARM 已经赢了。他们赢是因为他们独立。并不是说需要一家公司收购 ARM 才能投资 ARM 让他们赢。

Without any question, ARM already won. If you think about phones, they won. It's all powered by ARM CPUs. Computers, it's coming. You look at what Apple did with M1 moving to ARM. We're bringing ARM to the Windows ecosystem. So they're winning in the PC space. Automotive, already won. It's an ARM. I'll argue that Nvidia without acquiring ARM, they announced a CPU ARM for the data center. Amazon with ARM on Graviton, Google working on ARM. So I would argue that if you step back and you look, ARM already won. And they won because they're independent. It's not like you need one company to buy ARM to invest in ARM for them to win.

高通会参与一个财团收购 ARM 以保持其中立吗？

Would Qualcomm participate in a consortium to buy ARM to keep it neutral?

我们之前说过，我重申，如果这些选项中的任何一个成为可能，我认为高通会立即参与，并会有兴趣加入。许多其他跨行业的公司，包括汽车行业、云公司，也表达了类似的担忧。我们都想要一个独立的 ARM。

We said before, I reiterated, and any of those options become available, I think Qualcomm is going to be right there and it's going to be interested in participating. And many other companies across different sectors, across the automotive sector, the cloud companies had indicated similar concerns. We all want an independent ARM.

我知道你经常去中国。高通在中国有很大的业务。你是否受到美中贸易紧张局势、两国政府言论升级的影响？

I know that you've traveled to China a lot. Qualcomm has a big business in China. Are you being impacted at all by the US-China trade tensions, the ratcheting up of rhetoric between the two governments?

完全没有。我之前说过很多次，我重申一下。我认为我们在中国的业务正在扩张。我们在中国有增长强劲的业务，但重要的是要理解其基本面。我们向许多中国公司提供技术。他们在技术领域、在国内市场以及全球雄心方面都在增长。我们与 DJI 等公司在无人机方面合作。我们与网络和物联网领域的公司合作，这些领域持续扩张。归根结底，我仍然相信美国私营部门与中国之间强有力的商业合作可能会继续成为两国关系的稳定力量。我觉得对话中正确的词应该是两个经济的战略耦合。特别是我们所做的事情，美国在半导体以及我们运营的行业中拥有领导地位对美国是好事，我认为这对美国有利，对中国也有利。

Not at all. I said that many times before and I'll reiterate. I think our business with China is expanding. We have a growing and vibrant business with China, but it's important to understand the fundamentals of that. We provide technology to a lot of the China companies. They're growing within technology within their domestic market as well as their global ambitions. We're working with companies like DJI for drones. We're working for companies on networking and IoT that continue to expand. At the end of the day, I still believe that strong business cooperation between the private sector in the United States and China is probably going to continue to be a stabilizing force in the relations between the two countries. And I feel that the right word in the conversation should be strategic coupling of the two economies. And especially what we do, it's great for United States to have leadership in semi and across the industry that we operate in and I think that's good for United States and it's good for China.

所以不担心长期来看，作为一家美国公司，高通可能成为美中贸易战中的报复目标？

So no concern that longer term as an American company Qualcomm could become a target for retaliation in a US-China trade war?

看，我们真的无法预测结果。你可以说杯子半满，杯子半空。我总是认为杯子半满。我认为我们为中国公司增加了如此多的价值。现在依赖高通技术的中国公司数量今天比昨天多，明天会更多。我认为这为我们在中国的存在和业务提供了稳定性。

Look, we can't really predict the outcomes. You can take the glass is half full, the glass is half empty. I always take the glass is half full. I think we add so much value to the Chinese companies. The number of Chinese companies that are now depending on Qualcomm technology is bigger today than was yesterday and it's going to be much bigger tomorrow. And I think that provides stability to our presence and business in China.

高通会进入元宇宙吗？

Is Qualcomm going to be in the metaverse?

我认为混合现实对我们来说将成为现实，双关语。

I think mixed reality is going to be a reality for us, pun intended.

我听说你是个超级社交达人。我想这是赞美，但你会如何描述自己，或者你对此怎么看？

I'm told that you're kind of like a networker on steroids. I think it's a compliment, but how would you describe yourself or what do you think of that?

嗯，我把它当作赞美。我认为这可能不仅仅是我个人。我想说高通在生态系统中扮演着不可思议的角色。在无线行业，我认为公司认识到我们可以把这一切整合起来。看看我们为所有公司提供技术的事实，无论你是基础设施公司、设备公司还是应用开发者，这是共同点，这创造了一个拥有共同目标的公司生态系统。

Well, I take that as a compliment. I think it's maybe more than me. I would say Qualcomm has an incredible role in the ecosystem. Within the wireless industry, I think companies recognize that we can put this together. I think looking at the fact that we provide technology across all companies, whether you're infrastructure company, whether a device company, whether application developer, that's a common thing and that creates an ecosystem of companies with a shared goal.

但你是怎么做的，我是说，你是不是经常给 Tim Cook 或 Andy Jassy 或 Satya Nadella 或 Sundar Pichai 打电话？

But how do you, I mean, are you like constantly picking up the phone to Tim Cook or Andy Jassy or Satya Nadella or Sundar Pichai?

多年来我建立了很多关系，我会说我的一个资产是我认为拥有不可思议的人脉网络，因为我能够接触到许多公司并创建双赢的合作伙伴关系。所以我不否认。我建立了非常牢固的关系。我认为关系总是基于——如果成功的话——基于信任和建立双赢伙伴关系的能力，这也反映在 5G 之外。

I have built a lot of relationships over the years and I'll say one of my assets is I think an incredible network because I was able to reach out to a number of companies and create a win-win partnership. So I won't deny it. I have built incredibly strong relationships. I think relationships are always based on if they're successful, it's based on trust and based on ability to have win-win partnerships and that's reflected also beyond 5G.

你一直在说英特尔 Pat Gelsinger 的好话，而你知道，显然他们的代工业务可能看起来像竞争对手。这是真心话吗？

You've been saying quite nice things about Intel's Pat Gelsinger when, you know, obviously with their foundry business they could look like a competitor. Is that genuine sentiment?

绝对真心。我是这样想的，我认为 Pat 和我都是 2021 届 CEO。Pat，我认为高通和英特尔是美国两家不可思议的科技公司，我认为我们过去一直不和，我认为 Pat 和我有机会重新定义这种关系。一切都在融合。我认为移动技术无处不在。所以当你看到这一点时，这真的是关于竞合。这与我们和三星的关系没有什么不同。与三星的关系可以说是非常棒的关系。它很复杂。我们同时是供应商、客户和竞争对手。目前对半导体行业来说，没有什么比拥有一个有韧性的半导体供应链更重要的了。

Absolutely. Here's how I think about it and I think Pat and I are both part of the class of 2021 CEOs. Pat, I think Qualcomm and Intel are two incredible technology companies in America and I think we have been at odds with each other in the past and I think Pat and I had an opportunity to redefine this relationship. Everything is converging. I think mobile technology is everywhere. So when you look at that, it's really about co-opetition. It's no different than our relationship with Samsung. Relationship with Samsung is if anything an incredible great relationship. It's complex. We are a supplier, we are a customer, we're a competitor all at once. There's nothing more important right now for the semiconductor industry to have a resilient semiconductor supply chain.

高通会进入元宇宙吗？你们的芯片会进入元宇宙吗？

Is Qualcomm going to be in the metaverse? Are your chips going to be in the metaverse?

我们很早就开始研究增强现实和虚拟现实。现在这些正在成为有意义的业务。我们与 Facebook 在 Oculus 上有不可思议的关系。我认为那是 VR。我们将与微软等公司在增强现实方面合作。我认为混合现实对我们来说将成为现实，双关语。我觉得下一部手机将是沉浸式眼镜，我们将拥有可以佩戴的眼镜，它将与我们的手机配对，最终我们将只有眼镜。我们的手机将变成眼镜，增强现实眼镜？想想这个。你会得到看起来像这样的眼镜。你的眼镜里将有 5G 调制解调器和计算能力。你将带来云端的按需计算，有了那些眼镜，你将能够看着每个人、每样东西，如果你看着某人，然后我们会说，“我要做人脸识别，去云端，查看 Instagram、LinkedIn，一切。实时获取你需要的所有信息，以及你想要研究的物体和事物。”

We have started working early with augmented reality and virtual reality. We now those are becoming meaningful business. We have an incredible relationship with Facebook on Oculus. I think that's on VR. We'll be working with companies like Microsoft on augmented reality. I think mixed reality is going to be a reality for us, pun intended. I feel that the next phone is going to be immersive glasses and we're going to have glasses that we're going to wear and it's going to be paired with our phone and eventually we're just going to have glasses. Our phones are going to be glasses, augmented reality glasses? Think about this. You're going to get glasses that look like this. You'll be able to have 5G modem and computation in your glasses. You're going to bring the on-demand computing of the cloud and you'll be able to with those glasses, you'll be able to look at everyone, look at everything, and if you look at somebody and then we'll say, "I'm going to do facial recognition, go to the cloud, check on Instagram, LinkedIn, everything. Get all information you need, in real time as well as objects and things that you want to research upon."

这不再是技术问题。只是生态系统需要成熟。我认为，随着我们将完全沉浸式的增强现实引入眼镜，在改变医疗、改变教育、提高生产力方面有着巨大的机会。

That's no longer a technology issue. It's just a matter of having the ecosystem to mature. I think there's an incredible opportunity to change healthcare, to change education, productivity as we bring full immersive augmented reality into glasses.

你住在圣迭戈，高通总部所在地。我知道你是一位父亲。我还听说你是个汽车迷，对吧？你翻新老车。

You live in San Diego, where Qualcomm is based. I know you're a dad. I also hear you're a car nut, right? You refurbish old cars.

我有两个修复项目正在进行中。我非常兴奋，但这与我们在汽车领域所做的工作相反。我们在汽车领域所做的一切都是关于汽车的最新、最伟大的数字化转型。我不知道我的车除了点火装置外还有没有其他电子设备。我修复肌肉车。我喜欢 70 年代的肌肉车，我爱我的两个项目。

I have two restoration projects that I'm working on. I'm very excited about them, but it's contrary to what we're doing in automotive. All that we're doing in automotive is about the latest and greatest digital transformation of the car. I don't know if my cars have any electronics at all other than the ignition. I do restoration of muscle cars. I like muscle cars from the 70s era and I love my two projects.

那武术呢？那不可能——那肯定不仅仅是中年危机。你在武术方面非常熟练。

And what about the martial arts? That can't be—that's got to be more than a midlife crisis. You are very skilled in martial arts.

嗯，我一直——我是日本传统空手道的练习者。这对我的重要性在于，艾米丽，它给我一个可以脱离一切的时刻。它帮助我保持平衡。它帮助我尝试做其他事情来集中注意力，我认为你可以从传统武术中学到很多商业上的经验。有很多可以带到商业中，你知道，在武术中，尤其是传统日本武术，你学到关于精神的东西。我认为你在战斗之前就在精神上赢得了战斗，我把这一点带到工作场所，我如何看待事物以及高通的新挑战和机遇。

Well, I've been—I'm a practitioner of Japanese traditional karate. The reason that's important for me, Emily, is give me a moment that I can disconnect from everything. It helped me keep balance. It helped me trying to do something else to put my mind on and I think there's a lot of lessons that you can bring from traditional martial arts to business. There's a lot you can bring to business and you know, one of the things about—you learn in martial arts, especially the traditional Japanese one, about spirit. I think you win the fight in spirit before the fight and I take that to the workplace, how I think about things and about the new challenges and opportunities for Qualcomm.

克里斯蒂亚诺·安蒙，非常感谢你加入我们。真的很高兴你能来。

Cristiano Amon, thank you so much for joining us. It's really great to have you here.