超越智能手机：克里斯蒂亚诺·安蒙谈高通的 AI 革命与全球桥梁

今天的嘉宾不仅仅是在领导一家科技公司，他正在重新定义这家公司可以成为什么。克里斯蒂亚诺·安蒙是高通的总裁兼 CEO，在他的领导下，高通正在经历重大演变。高通长期以来以推动智能手机革命、实现 3G、4G 和 5G 而闻名，克里斯蒂亚诺明确表示，他的雄心是让高通远远超越移动领域，并将其定位为无处不在的智能计算的中心。克里斯蒂亚诺在高通的工程和产品部门一路晋升，这使他对技术和生态系统都有深刻的理解。如今，当 AI 正从云端转向边缘时，他押注未来属于直接构建在我们周围设备中的强大、高能效计算。我有幸通过全球半导体联盟与克里斯蒂亚诺合作，他在那里担任董事会成员并领导 CEO 理事会。在这些场合中，我亲眼目睹了他将行业领袖聚集在一起应对共同挑战的能力，从供应链韧性到创新政策，再到全球竞争力的未来。今天，我们将讨论重塑一家已经成功的公司需要什么样的领导力，如何平衡传统优势与大胆扩张，以及为什么他认为高通的下一个篇章可能是最具决定性的。好的，克里斯蒂亚诺，欢迎来到《A Bit Personal》。我非常激动能邀请到你。

Our guest today isn't just leading a technology company. He's redefining what that company can be. Cristiano Amon is the president and CEO of Qualcomm, and under his leadership, Qualcomm is undergoing a significant evolution. Long known as a company that powered the smartphone revolution and made 3G, 4G, and 5G possible, Cristiano has been clear about his ambition to expand Qualcomm far beyond mobile and position it at the center of intelligent computing everywhere. Cristiano rose through the Qualcomm engineering and product ranks, which gives him a deep understanding of both the technology and the ecosystem. And now at a moment when AI is shifting from the cloud to the edge, he's betting that the future belongs to powerful, energy-efficient computing built directly into the devices around us. I've had the privilege of working with Cristiano through the Global Semiconductor Alliance, where he serves on the board of directors and leads the CEO Council. In those settings, I've seen firsthand his ability to bring industry leaders together around shared challenges, from supply chain resilience to innovation policy to the future of global competitiveness. Today, we'll talk about what kind of leadership it takes to reinvent a company that's already successful, how you balance legacy strengths with bold expansion, and why he believes Qualcomm's next chapter may be its most consequential yet. All right, Cristiano, welcome to A Bit Personal. I'm so excited to have you.

很高兴和你交谈，珍妮。

Very happy to talk to you, Jenny.

是的，我们今天在高通总部，感谢你的热情款待。

Yeah, and we're at Qualcomm's headquarters today, so thank you for all the hospitality.

哦，没问题。感谢你来到这里。

Oh, no problem. Thank you for being here.

所以，我非常期待听到你公众成功背后的个人故事，我相信观众也是如此。你的职业生涯在非常迷人的世界交汇处展开。你出生并在巴西长大，后来成为一家主要美国科技公司的 CEO，而这家公司恰好连接了全球数十亿人。所以，这是一个相当讽刺的弧线。那么，请告诉我一点在巴西长大的经历，环境是怎样的，以及它如何影响了你孩童时期的看法。

So, I'm really excited to hear sort of the personal story behind your public success, and I'm sure the audience is as well. And you you have your career has unfolded sort of at the intersection of very fascinating intersection of worlds. So, you were born and grew up in Brazil, you became the CEO of a major American technology company, which happens to connect billions of people across the globe together. So, that's quite an ironic arc. So, tell me a little bit about what it was like growing up in Brazil, what the environment was like, and how it impacted your view as a child.

是的。嗯，这是一个很难回答的问题，但看，我是在巴西出生和长大的。有趣的是，我在这里已经超过 30 年了，但我确实在巴西长大，在巴西读的电气工程学校。我就是在那里进入电气工程领域的。我认为我有点混合，两者都有。我认为我融入了很多美国文化的元素，但我也，你知道，有巴西文化的元素，我认为这很棒。

Yes. Well, it's a difficult question to answer, but look, I'm Yeah, born and raised in Brazil. It's interesting, I've been here now for about a little over 30 years, but I did, you know, grew up in Brazil, went to electrical engineering school in Brazil. That's where I got into electrical engineering. And I think I'm a little bit of a mix, I think of both. I think I have incorporated a lot of elements of the American culture, but I also, you know, somebody that has elements of Brazilian culture, and I think this it's been great.

那么，你认为你成长过程中那种文化多元化帮助你成为一家全球公司的更好 CEO 吗？

So, do you think that that sort of cultural diversification that you grew up around helped you be a better CEO of a global company?

看，我经常和少数其他巴西出生的 CEO 交谈，我们经常在活动上见面讨论，我认为有一件事对我们所有人都适用。巴西不是为初学者准备的。所以，我认为发生的是你学会了如何应对逆境，你知道如何处理困难。所以你实际上不会恐慌。你知道，事情好吧。有时事情不按计划进行，你必须即兴发挥，我认为这是你在巴西成长学到的一件事。好吧。我确实相信这对我的商业处理方式、我应对逆境的方式带来了好处，我想其他巴西 CEO 也会说同样的话。我认为这是你在一个必须不断应对大量逆境和频繁变化的地方长大的优势，我认为这是一种技能，很实用。

Look, I often talk to few There's few of us other, I think, Brazilian-born CEOs, and we kind of There's often we meet at events and we talk about it, and I think there's one thing that I believe it is true for all of us. Brazil is not for beginners. So, I think what happens is you learn how to deal with adversity, you know how to deal with difficulty. So, you actually have you don't panic. You know, things Okay. Sometimes things don't work as planned, and you have to improvise, and I think that's one of the things that you learn growing up in Brazil. Okay. And I do believe that it has brought a benefit, I think, to how I deal with business, how I deal with adversity, and I think probably other Brazilian CEOs will tell the same thing. I think that's the advantage that you have of been you know, grew up in a place that you have to deal with a lot of adversity, a lot of hot changes all the time, and I think that that's a skill, I think, that comes in handy.

对。对。是的，我的意思是，我从很多 CEO 那里听到了一些关于韧性的故事，听起来仅仅在巴西长大就需要韧性。所以，也许你可以将其转移到你作为 CEO 的角色中。所以，在这个播客中与这么多 CEO 交谈并了解成功在他们的家庭中意味着什么，这很有趣。所以他们中的一些人说：“哦，嗯，我的意思是，你知道，获得博士学位是某种最低要求。”或者他们谈论：“嗯，我的意思是，我至少必须是班级第一名，否则我会让父母失望。”所以，请告诉我一点你成长家庭中的价值观、期望和对成功的定义。

Right. Right. Yeah, I mean, I've heard from a lot of CEOs that some stories about resilience, and it sounds like just growing up in Brazil takes resilience. So, maybe that you can transfer that over to to your role as CEO. So, it's it's been interesting to talk to to so many CEOs on this podcast and and learn about what success meant in their household. So, some of them have said, "Oh, well, I mean, you know, it was sort of a minimum requirement to get a PhD." Or they talk about, "Well, I mean, I had to at least be number one in my class, or I would have disappointed my parents." So, tell me a little bit about the values and expectations and definition of success in the household that you grew up in.

可能和你刚才描述的很不同。看，有点，我会说我父亲对我有影响，因为他是电气工程师。然而，有点不同。我认为他是经典的电气工程，不是电子，所以他在我家乡的公用事业公司工作了一辈子。那是传统的发电、输电和配电的电气工程师。所以，他有影响，但有点不同。实际上，你知道，当我上高中时，我想上大学，我父亲说：“你可以选择任何你想要的，只要是工程学院、法学院、医学院，对吧？”然后我想：“好吧，三者之中，我可能最喜欢工程。”我认为我父亲是电气工程师对我选择电气工程有影响。我一直对通信和无线着迷。我认为我在家庭中获得的心态，可能和我父亲从祖父那里得到的一样。我的祖父，你知道，是美国和巴西许多移民的故事。我祖父从黎巴嫩移民过来。那是黎巴嫩的一个天主教小镇，叫马奇杜什。在 1900 年代初移民。我想，像每个人一样，当时有船去纽约，有船去桑托斯。他去了那里。开始在咖啡农场工作，然后攒了一些钱。开始建立自己的生意。所以，我认为我们一直有这种心态：你必须经历生活，你必须弄清楚如何生存。我认为我父亲就是这样。所以，那是我的心态，可能影响了我如何真正离开巴西。你知道，我看到了一个机会，大学毕业后，我的第一份工作是在 NEC，他们想把我调到日本，我就去了。然后从那里到高通。所以，我认为那可能是影响我的心态，但是的，事情就这样发生了。好的。

Probably very different than the things you just described. It was Look, it was kind of I will say my dad probably had an influence in me because he's an electrical engineer. However, it's a little different. I think he has the classical electrical engineering, not electronics, so he worked at utility company at my hometown in his whole career. It was you know, that's the traditional electrical engineer of energy generation, you know, transmission, and distribution. So, he had an influence, but it was kind of different. Actually, you know, when I went to high school, and I wanted to go to college, and my dad said, "You can choose anything you want, as long as engineering school, law school, medical school, right?" And then I thought, "Okay, well, of the three of them, I think I probably like engineering the most." I think there was an influence about, you know, my dad being an electrical engineer that I picked electrical engineer. I was always fascinated about communications and wireless. I think the mindset that I get in my household, which is the same, I think, that probably my dad got from my grandpa. My grandpa, you know, it's the story of many immigrants in America and in Brazil. I think my grandfather immigrated from Lebanon. It's a Catholic town in Lebanon called Machdouche. Immigrated in the very early 1900s. I think, like everybody, you know, at the time, there boats going to New York, there boats going to Santos. That's where he went. Started working on coffee farms, and then kind of save some money. Started building his own business. So, I think we always had this mindset that you're going to have to, you know, you're going to got to go through life, and you have to figure out how to survive. I think my dad was like that. So, that was kind of my mindset, and that's kind of probably had an influence how did I actually left Brazil. You know, I saw an opportunity when I came out of college, my first job was at NEC, and they wanted to transfer me to Japan, and I went. And and I think from there to Qualcomm. So, I think that's probably the mindset that had an influence, but yeah, it's just things just happened. Okay.

我的意思是，当时对教育有很大的重视吗？比如无论如何你都必须上大学？

I mean, was there a big emphasis on education, like no matter what, you have to go?

没有，但我确实记得我爸对我说过的一件事，那是真的，我想我记在心里了。他说：“你看，你去上好大学拿个学位是个好主意，因为无论你生活中发生什么，你可能会失去一切，但那个学位不会被夺走。”我想：“好吧，这是个好主意。我需要去这么做。”

No, but I do remember one of the things my dad said to me, which is true, and I think I took it to heart. He said, "Look, it'll be a good idea for you to get to a good university and get a degree, because no matter what happens in your life, you may lose everything, but that's not going to be taken away from you." And I thought, "Okay, it's a good idea. I need to go do that."

在巴西，非常巴西式的家庭，非常紧密的家庭纽带，很多传统。你谈到了韧性。这三样东西中，哪些在你抚养孩子时延续到了你的生活中？

In Brazil, very Brazilian families, very tight familial bonds, a lot of traditions. You talked about resilience. What of those three things carried over to your life when you raised your children?

哦，家庭极其重要。极其重要。比如，有些——这是巴西文化中独特的东西，可能也是他们成长的家庭。

Oh, family incredibly important. Incredibly important. Like, for example, there are—it's a unique thing to the Brazilian culture and probably the family they grew up with.

好吧，我的意思是，巴西文化如此充满活力。我的意思是，我未来的职业——快乐之地。是的，太有趣了。但在 20 世纪 80 年代和 90 年代，它并不是技术的温床。所以，你进入了世界上最尖端的行业，这非常有趣。

Okay, so I mean, Brazil is such a vibrant culture. I mean, my future career— Happy place. Yeah, so fun. But in the 1980s and '90s, it wasn't like sort of a hotbed of technology. So, it is very interesting that you found your way into the most sophisticated industry in the world.

在巴西，人们常把我和其他人称为巴西工程侨民的一部分，你知道吗？因为发生的事情是，在 80 年代和 90 年代，巴西在工程方面有很多事情发生。也许我告诉你，比如，巴西是世界上少数几个创建了航空航天工业的国家之一。看看 Embraer，它制造飞机，作为一个例子，巴西在水力发电厂有大量的巴西工程。如果你记得 80 年代石油危机时发生的事情，巴西是世界上第一个真正开发出完全可再生燃料乙醇的国家，大多数汽车都不是乙醇的。所以，你有——然后发生的事情，特别是在电子领域，是一个有很多激励措施的时期，我认为，对于公司开发很多与计算相关的技术。有趣的是，需要是发明之母。巴西大多数最先进的计算机公司都源自金融部门，因为巴西是最早将银行系统数字化的国家之一，因为你有每月 30% 的恶性通货膨胀，所以你不能再用手和纸做事情了。

Often people in Brazil refer to me and others, I think, as part of the Brazilian engineering diaspora, you know? Because what happened is during the '80s and the '90s, there was a lot of things happening within Brazil on the engineering side. Maybe I'm going to tell you, like, for example, Brazil is one of the few countries in the world that have created an aerospace industry. Look at Embraer, that makes planes, as an example that Brazil—there was a massive amount of Brazilian engineering in hydroelectric power plants. If you remember what happened in the oil crisis of the '80s, Brazil was the first country in the world that actually developed a completely renewable fuel with ethanol, and most of the cars weren't ethanol. So, you have— And then what happened, especially in electronics, was a time that there was a lot of incentives, I think, for companies to develop a lot of technology associated with computing. And it was interesting, necessity is the mother of invention. Most of the most advanced computing companies in Brazil was derivative from the financial sector because Brazil was one of the first countries to actually digitize the banking system because you have hyperinflation of 30% per month so you can't do the stuff with pen and paper anymore.

我在巴西接受教育。我想我上了一个很棒的电气工程班，有趣的是，当我看着和我一起毕业的人，大约一半在巴西以外，主要在美国。我想这就是发生的事情。这只是一个转变，那个发展起来的行业走向了不同的方向。我认为这造成了大规模的人才外流，特别是工程和电子领域的人，我就是其中之一。

I've been educated in Brazil. I think I went to a great electrical engineering class and it's interesting when I look at the people that graduated with me probably about half are outside Brazil mostly in the United States. And I think that's what happened. It was just a transition where that industry that was developed took in a different direction. And it creates a mass exodus I think of especially folks from engineering from electronics and I'm one of them.

好的。嗯，我相信家乡非常非常为你骄傲。以及你所取得的成就。

Okay. Well, I'm sure that the hometown is very, very proud of you. And what you've accomplished.

我试着，你知道，我试着当我回去的时候，我试着做那个在那里长大的人。我一直是个非常低调的人。我经常回去。我父母在那里，我总是有我想去的餐厅清单，朋友清单。我保留着不同的 WhatsApp 群组，来自我的中学朋友、高中朋友、大学朋友，那是一种机会，当我回去时与他们保持联系。

I try, you know, I try to when I go there I try to be the person that grew up there. I'm always like a very low profile person. I go frequently. My parents are there and I always have the list of a restaurant I want to go, a list of friends. I keep different WhatsApp groups from my middle school friends, from my high school friends, from my college friends and that's kind of opportunity to kind of remain connected with them when I go there.

我尊敬的每一位领导者都有这样一个时刻：他们意识到真正的工作是判断，而不是公众叙事，不是头条新闻。判断，尤其是在风险高、未来不明朗的时候。毕马威与该领域的技术领导者合作。他们帮助企业以更敏锐的风险意识和责任感来思考转型，尤其是当 AI 改变了规模化运营的意义时。当你拥有这样的合作伙伴时，决策会变得更清晰。了解更多信息，请访问 kpmg.com。现在让我们回到本期节目。

Every leader I respect has a moment where they realize the real job is judgment not the public narrative not the headlines. Judgment especially when the stakes are high and the future is unclear. KPMG works with technology leaders in that space. They help companies think through transformation with a sharper sense of risk and responsibility particularly as AI changes what it means to operate at scale. When you have that kind of partner decisions get clearer. Learn more at kpmg.com. Now let's get back to the episode.

所以你在 90 年代中期加入了高通。

So you joined Qualcomm in the mid-1990s.

1995 年。

1995.

1995 年，正好是中期，当然如你所说，你知道无线仍然是一个非常大胆的想法。所以你加入了公司，然后突然这场革命发生了。你什么时候意识到你参与的事情将彻底改变世界的沟通方式？

1995 exactly mid and of course as you said you know wireless was still a really bold idea. And so you joined the company and then all of a sudden this revolution happens. When did you realize that you were part of something that was going to change entirely the way that the world communicates?

很早，很早。看，我想当我大学毕业时，那就像是全球蜂窝通信的开端，对吧，包括那是蜂窝系统的开始，你知道，当时的模拟是 AMPS，我想在巴西部署，我认为在巴西当时基础设施领域最大的公司——在早期蜂窝通信中一些最大的公司是基础设施公司，像爱立信这样的公司，你知道，当时是 AT&T 网络系统，后来成为朗讯，当然还有摩托罗拉，它是蜂窝通信的王者，而且以一种非常独特的方式，我认为在日本以外，巴西可能是 NEC 的最大市场，因为有很大的日本社区——日本以外最大的日本社区，是 20 世纪初移民到巴西的日本人。所以 NEC 一直——当时是一家大公司。所以我大学毕业后就加入了他们，我当时——那是蜂窝通信的开始，我们正在建设基础设施。我开始了我的职业生涯，担任 MSC 移动交换中心系统工程师。在工作大约 1 年后，我刚大学毕业，他们决定把我调到总部。这就是为什么我第一次离开巴西去了日本。然后你很快看到蜂窝通信将转向数字蜂窝通信。当时我是那个小组的一员，实际上——你知道，这不是你问的问题，但我要讲这个故事，因为它很有趣——我是那个小组的一员，从日本出差到圣地亚哥，去见这家叫高通的小公司，它发明了这项叫 CDMA 的技术。他们想了解这项技术，可能想获得许可，用 CDMA 构建数字蜂窝系统。那是我第一次接触高通。这是高通，一家小公司。有趣的是，当我在圣地亚哥降落，我下了飞机，看着这座城市，我说哇，我想我会住在这里。我不知道怎么，但我有一种感觉，我会住在这个城市。就这样，时间流逝，然后我看到了高通在做什么，并理解了我认为高通在做什么，我说这太不可思议了。这是革命性的。我想也许是我对技术和通信的理解。令我惊讶的是，我没想到，但后来你知道高通提出雇用我，这就是为什么我在 1995 年加入高通，在第一个 CDMA 系统上线之前——在香港有一个粗糙的系统。

Early, early. Look, I think when I got out of college it was like the beginning of cell globally, right, and including that was the beginning of cellular systems, you know, analog at that time was AMPS I think being deployed in Brazil and I think in Brazil the largest company at that time in infra—in the early cellular some of the biggest companies were the infrastructure companies, companies like Ericsson, you know, at the time was AT&T Network Systems that became Lucent, of course Motorola that was the king, you know, of cellular and in a very unique way I think outside Japan Brazil was probably the largest market for NEC just because of the big Japanese community—the largest Japanese community outside Japan, it's Japanese that migrated to Brazil in the early 1900s. So NEC has always—it was a big company at the time. So I joined them right out of college and I was—it was the beginning of cellular where we're kind of building the infrastructure. I started my career as MSC mobile switching center system engineer. And within about 1 year into the job I just came out of college they decided to transfer me to the headquarters. That's why I left Brazil first time I went to Japan. And then quickly you saw that cellular is going to move to digital cellular. And at the time I was part of the group that actually—you know, it's not the question you asked but I'm going to tell the story because it's interesting—I was part of the group that came from a business trip from Japan actually to San Diego to meet this tiny company called Qualcomm that has invented this technology called CDMA. And they wanted to understand about this technology and probably take a license to build a digital cellular system with CDMA. That was my first experience with Qualcomm. This is Qualcomm a small company. Interesting when I landed in San Diego I got off the plane I look at the city and I said wow I think I'm going to live here. I don't know how but I have a feeling I'm going to live in this town. That's it and kind of went and went by and then I saw what Qualcomm was doing and understood I think what Qualcomm was doing I said this is incredible. This is revolutionary. I think maybe the fact of my understanding of the technology and communications. And to my surprise I didn't expect it but then you know Qualcomm offered to hire me and that's why I joined Qualcomm 1995 before the very first CDMA system went live—there was a scratchy one in Hong Kong.

说起来很有趣，当我告诉我父亲时，我说：‘爸，我收到了加入这家公司的工作邀请。’1995 年，我作为工程师加入了高通。我说‘这家公司叫高通’，他说：‘从没听说过这家公司。你在干什么？你在 NEC 这样的大公司工作。你为什么要这么做？’但对我来说，回答你的问题，我当时很清楚。无线领域正在发生的事情将会非常成功。在我的职业生涯中，我一直非常幸运。我在 NEC 做模拟，但在高通，2G、3G、4G、5G，也许 6G。所以我很幸运能够参与并见证每一次无线技术的转型，以及无线技术为社会和世界带来的实际影响。

It was funny because when I told my dad, I said, 'Dad, I got this job offer to join this company.' I joined Qualcomm as an engineer in 1995. And I said, 'This company called Qualcomm,' and he said, 'Never heard of this company. What are you doing? You're working at a big company called NEC. Why are you going to do this?' But for me at that time, to answer your question, I had clarity. This is going to be incredibly successful, what's happening in the wireless. I've been very fortunate in my career. I did analog at NEC, but with Qualcomm, 2G, 3G, 4G, 5G, maybe 6G. So I've been fortunate enough to participate and see every single wireless transition and what wireless has actually done for society and the world.

所以你真的是因为技术和你所感受到的理解才来到高通的。

So you really came to Qualcomm because of the technology and your understanding of the way you feel.

是的，我爱这家公司，爱这项技术。我说：‘嗯，我简直不敢相信。我爱这个城市，我爱这家公司，我爱这项技术，我简直不敢相信这一切正在发生。’那很棒。你看，我很偏心。我告诉人们我爱高通。我在这家公司 30 年了。我认为这是一个不可思议的地方。当我审视我作为 CEO 的工作时，最重要的是，我知道每个 CEO 都要对公司的股东负责，但最重要的是，我感到巨大的责任来引导这家公司，它为我以及我们许多高通人做了太多。实际上，这是最大的责任。每天我都希望我为那些信任我、委托我领导他们的人做正确的事。我想确保我不搞砸，因为这家公司非常特别。

Yeah, I love the company, love the technology. I said, 'Well, I can't believe it. I love the town, I love the company, I love the technology, I can't believe this is happening.' And it was great. Look, I'm very biased. I tell people I love Qualcomm. I've been at this company for 30 years. I think it's an incredible place. When I look at my job as CEO, more than anything, I know every CEO is accountable to the shareholders of the company, but more than anything, I feel incredible responsibility to steer this company that has done so much for me and for many of us who are part of Qualcomm. Actually, that's the biggest responsibility. Every day I hope I'm doing the right thing for the people that have trusted me and entrusted in me the ability to lead them. I want to make sure I don't screw up because this company is very special.

好的，很好。我记得当我与前 CEO 史蒂夫·莫伦科夫会面时，我试图回忆确切的日子，但我记得他刚与希拉里·克林顿会面，所以我认为那是在 2016 年大选期间。我在这里拜访他，他说：‘哦，顺便说一句，你真的需要认识一下克里斯蒂亚诺·安蒙。’所以那时你已经在高通几十年了。你留下来是因为你说你爱这家公司，忠于公司的使命。那么你最终知道——我是说，你刚开始时这是你的梦想吗，或者在你职业生涯的哪个时刻你想：‘我可以成为这家公司的 CEO？’

Okay. It's nice. So I remember when I was meeting with Steve Mollenkopf, who was the former CEO, and I was trying to remember the exact day, but I remember he had just had a meeting with Hillary Clinton, so I think that it was during the election in 2016. And I was visiting him here and he's like, 'Oh, by the way, you really need to get to know Cristiano Amon.' So at that point you'd been at Qualcomm for decades. You stayed because you said you love the company, loyal to the mission of the company. So did you know ultimately—I mean, was it your dream when you started, or at what point in your career did you think, 'I could be the CEO of this company?'

不，不，不。就像我说的，看，我出生在巴西圣保罗州内陆的一个城市，我从未想象过有一天我会成为高通的 CEO。不。我会说，唯一真正让我清楚意识到这一点的是，2018 年史蒂夫让我担任公司总裁，目的是让我成为他的继任者。但在那之前，甚至我在高通内部的晋升也只是我们所做事情的必然结果，那是当时应该发生的事情，我把它当作下一个使命。我从未有过‘哦，是的，我要计划这个，我现在要成为这家公司的 CEO。’它就是发生了。

No, no, no. Like I said, look, born in a city in the interior of the state of São Paulo in Brazil, I'll never imagine I'm going to be CEO of Qualcomm one day. No. I would say the only time that actually became clear to me was when Steve made me president of the company in 2018 with the intent of preparing me for becoming his successor. But before that, even how I progressed within Qualcomm was just as a natural result of what we're doing, and it was kind of the right thing to happen at that time, and I took that as the next mission. I never had, 'Oh yeah, I'm going to plan this out, I'm going to be CEO of this company now.' It just happened.

那么，一旦公司看到与史蒂夫的过渡将会是什么，他们是如何准备你的，或者史蒂夫是如何准备你的？

So how did—once the company saw what the transition was going to be with Steve, how did they prepare you, or how did Steve prepare you?

我是在公司的半导体业务中成长起来的。如果你看我的轨迹，当史蒂夫成为半导体业务 QCT 的总裁时，我正在负责移动业务——那时有 CDMA 和 WCDMA。后来，当史蒂夫成为公司总裁时，我正在负责半导体业务。然后我沿着史蒂夫的轨迹，成为公司总裁，成为 CEO。所以我认为这是一种自然的演变，可能始于我们的创始人欧文。事情就是这样发生的。欧文总是说——甚至在我与他交谈的 40 周年纪念日，他重复说——‘高通的 CEO 必须是工程师。’我想这有点——我们没有很多这样的人，但我认为这是传统。所以我认为这可能是我们在高通期望的自然进展。

I grew up within the semiconductor business of the company. If you look at my trajectory, when Steve became president of the semiconductor business QCT, I was running the mobile business—there was CDMA and WCDMA at that time. Then later, as Steve became president of the company, I was running the semiconductor business. And then I went on the trajectory that Steve had, and I became president of the company, became CEO. So I think it was kind of the natural evolution that probably started with our founder Irwin. It just happened this way. Irwin always said—even when I talked to him at our 40th anniversary, he repeated—'A Qualcomm CEO has to be an engineer.' And I think that's kind of—we don't have many of those, but I think that's the tradition. So I think it's probably the natural progression that we expect to have in Qualcomm.

那么当你——被任命为高通 CEO 的那一天，你个人感觉如何？

And how did that personally feel when you—the day that you were named CEO of Qualcomm?

我感到有一点——我想可能每个人都会经历这个。你既有兴奋，然后又有‘哇，我看看我现在需要做什么。’标准变得更高了。总是有很多挑战。所以我认为，尽管人们可能想说，CEO 不是轻松的工作。有时它也是一份孤独的工作。我尽量不让它孤独，但伴随着兴奋，而来的是一种难以置信的责任感，我想——我不会说恐惧，但你不想失败。你希望它成功。而且我认为，尤其是作为新 CEO，你必须学习东西。所以我从不以‘哦，我什么都知道’的态度对待任何工作。这实际上是我做新事情的动力之一，推动我职业生涯的实际上是对学习新事物的渴望。而要成为 CEO，我知道我必须学习新事物。

I felt a little bit of—I think it goes probably everyone goes through this. You have a mix of excitement, and then you have 'Wow, I look at what I need to do now.' The bar becomes higher. There's always a lot of challenges. So I think, as much as people may want to say, CEOs are not easy jobs. Sometimes it's a lonely job, too. I try not to make it lonely, but it comes with the excitement, comes an incredible sense of responsibility, and I think—I won't say fear, but you don't want to fail. You want it to succeed. And I think, especially as a new CEO, you're going to have to learn things. So I never approach any job thinking, 'Oh, I know everything.' That's actually one of the motivations for me to do new things, and what propelled me in my career was actually the desire to learn new things. And to be a CEO, I knew I had to learn new things.

那么当你成为 CEO 时，你认为一开始必须做对的一两件事是什么，以便让这艘船保持航向？

So when you became the CEO, what were one or two things that you knew that you had to get right in the beginning in order for the ship to stay on course?

嗯，有几件事。也许其中一些会引起共鸣，因为你能看到。有些你可能看不到。所以让我从你看不到的事情开始。我认为我需要为公司做一个重要的转型。高通通过其使命多次重塑自己。但如果我回到开始状态和结束状态，我认为描述这个转型更容易。高通曾经是一家附带半导体业务的许可公司。今天的高通是一家恰好附带许可业务的半导体公司。所以我需要做的事情之一就是完成转型，使高通等同于半导体公司。我认为这与我们如何组织自己、我们如何思考公司结构、我们如何思考业务定位有很大关系。我认为这是其中一件事——我知道作为 CEO 我需要完成的一个使命。这更多是内部的事情。外部，希望人们能看到。那是一个漫长的旅程，但时间不多。如果你记得我成为 CEO 时，我在 2021 年有一个投资者日。我于 2021 年 6 月 30 日成为 CEO。我有一个投资者日，说这就是我们作为公司将要做的事情。我们将使公司多元化。

Well, there were a couple things. Maybe some of those things will resonate because you can see it. Some of those things you probably don't see. So let me start with the things you don't see. I think I needed to do an important transition for the company. Qualcomm, through its mission, has reinvented itself many times. But if I go back to the beginning state and the end state, I think it's easier to describe that transition. Qualcomm used to be a licensing company that had a semiconductor business on the side. Qualcomm today is a semiconductor business that happens to be a licensing business on the side. So one of the things I needed to do was complete the transition into making Qualcomm equal the semiconductor company. And I think that has a lot to do with how we organize ourselves, how we thought about the structure of the company, how we think about the position of the business. And I think that's one of the things—it was a mission that I knew I needed to do as CEO. That's more an internal thing. Externally, hopefully people can see that. That was a long journey, but not a lot of time. If you remember when I became CEO, I had an investor day in 2021. I became CEO June 30, 2021. I had an investor day and said this is what we're going to do as a company. We're going to diversify the company.

这将是我们关注的重点。我们将去建立所有这些不同的业务。我们拥有和开发的技术可以与所有其他行业相关，我们将把这个计划落实到位。我认为那就是主要使命。我们仍在前进的路上。但现在感觉高通已经不同了。我在这家公司已经 30 年了，感觉像是一家不同的公司。如果你看，我们现在可能是少数几家从亚毫瓦到毫瓦再到 2000 瓦的半导体公司之一。我们现在涉及移动、未来的个人 AI 设备、宽带无线和有线、PC、工业、机器人，我们正在进入数据中心，我认为这就是高通转型为一家更加多元化公司的过程，但为高通和所有其他半导体行业创造不同的能力和核心竞争力很重要，这就是主要使命。

We're going to this going to be the focus. We're going to go build all those different business. And the technology that we have and we develop can be relevant to so all those others industries and we're going to go put this plan in place. And I think that was that was the main mission. And we're still on our way. But I it feels like a different Qualcomm right now. I like I've been in the company for 30 years. It feels like a different company. If you look we're probably now one of the few semiconductor companies that go from sub sub to milliwatts to 2,000 watts. And we're now into mobile, the future personal AI devices, when broadband wireless and wireline, we're in the PC, we're industrial, we're in the robotics, we're entering into the data center, and I think that was the transformation of Qualcomm into a much more diversified company, but it was important to create different capabilities and core competencies for Qualcomm and all those other industries across semi and and that was the main mission.

好的。好的，那么让我们两种方式。有两种方式。好的，那么让我们稍微谈谈那个。让我们先谈谈智能手机。所以，你知道，再次，我创办这个播客的原因之一是为了让人们了解那些绝对会改变他们生活的技术背后的领导者。好的，无线技术改变了人们的生活，你知道，我的意思是以无数的方式。但无线技术不是凭空发生的。它必须被想象，必须被设计，必须被建造，而高通是其中的中心。所以，在我们进入多元化战略之前，告诉我一点关于我们在智能手机这一时刻的立场，以及智能手机是否只是——它们就像水和电一样，是理所当然的，已经成熟，我们已经达到顶峰，或者是否会有一些新的飞跃，无论是通过 AI 还是外形或其他你看到的下一波创新。

Okay. Okay, so let's Two ways. It's two ways. Okay, so let we'll we'll talk a little bit about that. Let's first talk about smartphones. So, you know, again, one of the one of the reasons that I started this podcast was for people to get to know the leaders behind the technology that's absolutely going to transform their lives. Okay, and wireless transformed people's lives and you know, I mean in countless ways. But wireless didn't just happen. It had to be imagined, it had to be engineered, it had to be built and Qualcomm was at the center of that. So, tell me before we go on to kind of the diversification strategy, tell me a little bit about where we are in this moment on smartphones and whether or not smartphones are just sort of okay, they're like, you know, water and electricity. It's just a given that it's mature, we've hit a peak or is there some new leap that is going to happen whether through AI or form factor or whatever you see as the next wave of innovation.

是的，我喜欢回答这个问题。我喜欢回答这个问题的原因可能是因为我们高通对这些事情有不同的视角，也许有点因为历史。我刚告诉过你，我很幸运能够经历每一代无线技术。每一代无线技术都需要添加一个非常重要的能力，以及由此带来的相关转型。所以，对我来说，沿着这个旅程来回答这个问题更容易，对吧？所以，当 2G 开始时，那是高通凭借 CDMA 进入地图的时候，目的是你能创造一种技术，让地球上的每个人都拥有与有线电话相同质量的电话吗？那就是 CDMA。然后你看到了 2G 发生了什么。2G，你有了这个巨大的爆炸，每个人都得到了电话。每个人都得到了电话。那发生在 2G。所以，爆炸了。这是一件不可思议的事情。你可以带着电话四处走动，你现在可以联系世界上的每个人，世界上的每个人也可以联系你。3G 是什么？3G 是关于互联网刚刚开始。我们能把那些电话连接到互联网吗？你看到了发生了什么，你知道，因为 3G，你开始看到我们更多人使用电子邮件，接收带有附件的电子邮件。你开始看到你知道，那些设备变得多么受欢迎，不仅是为了打电话，而且是为了获取信息，通过电子邮件、通过短信沟通。你看到了黑莓，你知道，那是一件不可思议的事情。然后是 4G。我们真的能提供宽带吗？通过提供宽带，我们将把电话变成电脑。我不需要告诉你智能手机革命发生了什么。我想如果我现在拿走你的手机，你现在会非常不高兴。那就是 4G 的使命。它不仅仅是关于宽带，我们能把电话变成电脑吗？它现在是人类有史以来创造的最大的开发平台。它推动了技术的边界。我会说，因为 4G，因为清楚地理解了使命是什么，高通成为了一家计算公司，因为我们以前不是，但因为 4G 我们不得不成为。你可能记得我们是世界上第一家真正创造了一款名为 Scorpion 的 CPU 的公司。它们有千兆赫兹的处理器时钟速度，并且实际上可以在手机中运行高级操作系统。当时什么都没有。高通，你知道，不得不去做那件事。我认为我们在计算方面开发的许多能力是在我们需要开发使能的基础技术和标准允许手机通过宽带变成电脑之前。那就是 4G。所以，4G 做了其他事情，对吧？因为 4G，你看到了一个完全不同的行业发展起来。如果没有 4G 和智能手机，就不会有 Uber。不会有。你我都可以给你一个又一个例子，不同的公司和业务在这个平台上创建起来。你在 4G 中看到的一件事是，我们开始放弃我们的 iPod，开始看到我们的 CD，开始流媒体音乐。今天，汽车甚至不再有 CD 播放器了。你流媒体音乐。但是当你开始进入智能手机革命时，发生了几件事。你不再有技术来提供无限的数据速率。你也没有技术来真正允许你消费高清视频。所以，那就是 5G 的使命。5G 实际上有三个主要特点。我能让智能手机拥有与你家里一样的无限数据速率吗？有趣的是，很多人认为这是理所当然的。我经常听到人们说：“嗯，我没有看到从 4G 到 5G 的显著变化。”当然，人们太习惯智能手机了，他们认为是理所当然的。因为 5G，你有无限的数据速率，你实际上有高清视频下载。看看视频流媒体做了什么。4G 为音乐所做的，它为视频做了。而且 5G 还有关键任务能力。好的，这就是我们现在所处的位置。

Yeah, I love answering this question. And the reason I love answering this question because maybe maybe the reason we at Qualcomm we we have a different perspective on those things is maybe a little bit because of the history. I just told you that I've been fortunate enough in being able to be to every single wireless generation. And every single generation of wireless, there was a very important capability that needed to be added to wireless and the associated trans formation that comes from the capability. So, it's easier for me to answer this question walking into this journey, right? So, when 2G started and that was the when Qualcomm got into the map with CDMA, the purpose was can you create a technology that allow every person on Earth to have a telephone with the same quality that you have on a wireline. That was CDMA. And and and you saw what happened with 2G. 2G, you have this massive explosion that everybody got a phone. Everybody got a phone. That that happened with 2G. So, exploded. It was an incredible thing. You can walk around with a telephone and you can now be contact every person in the world and every person in the world can contact you. What was 3G? 3G was about the internet just started. Can we connect those phones to the internet? And you saw what happened you know, because of 3G you started to see a lot more of us using email, getting email with attachments. You started to see you know, how popular those devices became not only for you to make phone calls, but you to get information, for you to communicate via email, via text. You saw the Blackberry, you know, that was an incredible thing. Then 4G. Can we actually deliver broadband? And by delivering broadband, we're going to turn the phone into a computer. And I don't need to tell you what happened with the smartphone revolution. I think if I take away your phone, you're going to be very unhappy right now. And and that was the mission of 4G. It was not just about broadband, can we make the phone into a computer? It's now the largest development platform ever created by mankind. And it pushes the boundaries from a technology. I will argue because of 4G and because it was a clear understanding what the mission was that Qualcomm became a computing company because we were not before, but because of 4G we had to. You you probably remember we're the first company in the world to actually create a CPU called Scorpion. They had a gigahertz processor clock speed and could actually run a high-level OS in a phone. Nothing was available at the time. And Qualcomm, you know, had to go do that. And and and I think a lot of the capabilities we develop in computing was before we needed to develop the fundamental technologies that enable and the standard allow the phone to become a computer with broadband. That's 4G. So, 4G did other things, right? Because because of 4G you saw a whole different industry get developed as a result of that. There would be no Uber if it wasn't for 4G and smartphone. There won't be. And you and I can give you examples like after example of different uh full companies and business that got created on top of this platform. And one of the things you saw with 4G is that we're starting to give up our our iPods and starting to see and our CDs and start to stream music. Today, the cars don't even have a CD player anymore. You stream music. But when you could started to get to the smartphone revolution, a couple things happened. Uh you don't have a technology anymore to to provide unlimited data rates. And you don't have a technology to actually allow you to have high definition video consumption. So, that was the mission of 5G. 5G actually has three major features. Can I enable a smartphone to have unlimited data rates in the same way that you actually have at your home? And it's interesting, a lot of people take that for granted. I often keep hearing people say, "Well, I don't get I didn't see that significant change from 4G to to 5G." Of course, people people are so used to smartphone, they take for granted. Because of 5G, you have unlimited data rates and you actually have high definition video download. Look at what did with video streaming. What they did 4G did for music, it did for video. And also 5G has emission critical capabilities. Okay, that's where we are right now.

所以现在我要开始回答你的问题。6G 是什么？现在需要一种真正的能力。你必须从技术演进的角度理解我们作为一个社会所处的整体背景，才能理解 6G 到底是什么。所以，现在我要告诉你 AI 正在发生什么。所以，在个人计算的历史中，手机是其中的一部分。嗯，现在 PC，手机是最大的个人计算平台。

So now I'm going to start answering your question. What's 6G? There's a There's a real capability that is now required. And and and you have to understand the overall context of where we are at at's a a society from a technology evolution standpoint to understand what's what is 6G all about. So, now I'm going to tell you what's happening with AI. So, in the history of of personal computing, and that's where phones are inserted into it. Uh now PCs, phones is the largest personal computing platform.

在个人计算的历史上，我们看到很多事物的演进——计算的演进、软件的演进、用例的演进——都是人机界面变化的结果。当第一台 PC 由 Intel、Microsoft 和 IBM 联合创造出来时，有一个 S2 键盘，对吧？所以我们都学会了在 S2 键盘上打字。你看那个为这种人机界面（文本）设计的操作系统，就是 MS-DOS，那是第一台计算机。然后 Xerox 发明了鼠标，你现在可以有图形用户界面了。太不可思议了。结果，计算机变了，操作系统变了，甚至从 MS-DOS 变成了 Windows。程序——当时我们不叫应用，叫程序——也发生了巨大变化。因为人机界面变了。但现在，计算机可以放在你手掌里，你触摸它。一切都变了。操作系统变了，应用商店出现了。我们谈论应用，开发者开始为小屏幕开发让你触摸的应用，这就是我们现在的状态。但现在，AI 的能力之一，特别是当你谈到大型视觉模型、大型语言模型时，现在计算机能理解我们。我们不必教——我们不必教人们如何与计算机交互。无论我们说什么、听到什么、看到什么——而那个“看到”非常重要——计算机都能理解。所以，AI 的众多能力之一，除了你去聊天框提问之外，现在正在人机界面中扮演角色。因此，一切都会改变。计算机会变，操作系统会变，应用会变，网络会变。

In the history of personal computing, a lot of those things we have seen the evolution of the computing, evolution of the software, evolution the use case coming as a result of the change in the human computer interface. When the first PC was created by the combination of Intel, Microsoft, and IBM, there was an S2 keyboard, right? So, we all learn how to type an S2 keyboard. You look at an OS that was designed for that human interface, text, that was MS-DOS, and that was the first computer. Then Xerox invented the mouse, and you could now have a graphical user interface. Incredible. As a result, the computer changed, the OS changed, even changed from MS-DOS to Windows. The programs, we didn't call apps at the time, we called programs, changed dramatically. And because the human computer interface changed. But now, the computer could fit in the palm of your hand and you touch it. The whole thing changed. OS's changed, app stores came. We talk about apps, developers started to develop an app in a small screen for you to touch, and that's kind of where we are right now. But now, one of the capabilities of AI, especially when you talk about large visual models, large language models, now the computer understand us. We don't have to teach We don't have to learn people how to interact with a computer. Whatever we say, whatever we hear, whatever we see, and that see is very important, the computer understands. So, one of the many capabilities of AI, besides you go to a chat box and ask a question, is taking a role now in a human computer interface. Therefore, everything changes. The computer's going to change, the OS is going to change, the application's going to change, the network's going to change.

现在我要把这和我们刚才关于 6G 的对话联系起来。现在，我们正走向一个环境：从我们的手机开始，我们将开始拥有不同类别的设备，而那些应用将被智能体取代，智能体将听到我们说的话，读取我们写的内容，并看到我们看到的东西。想想“看到我们看到的东西”——那是巨大的上行链路。所以，6G 带来的事情之一，众多事情之一，是 6G 将成为需要解决一个非常重要问题的技术：5G 关乎高性能、高清视频流。现在我需要巨大的上行链路，因为我们都将成为行走的摄像头。我们将拥有眼镜，我们的眼镜将看到我们所看到的，我们将与智能体互动。嗯，我很乐意谈论一些用例，但许多用例还有待发明，就像我们开始思考 4G 时没人想到 Uber 一样。所以，这是 6G 将发生的事情之一：巨大的上行链路。6G 将发生的另一件事是我们将在网络中使用 AI。而且，我们将教——系统将把无线电信号作为物理 AI 来处理。无线电信号将成为物理 AI，你将拥有在其上训练的模型，有了这个，你将开始拥有全新的能力。你将把每个无线电信号当作雷达，你将拥有大规模的世界数字孪生。所以，这是 6G 将做的另一件事，为智能体提供重要的上下文。所以我们正处于移动行业最大变革之一的开始，它将和之前发生的一样，我还要补充一个传统。对于我们无线行业的人来说，我们知道偶数代非常具有颠覆性。2G 是巨大的。每个人都有一部手机。4G 是巨大的。你的手机变成了电脑。6G 将是智能体成为界面一部分的时候，体验将感觉非常非常不同。它将行走——你将戴着眼镜，智能眼镜是设备之一。还会有更多设备。但你将拥有能看到你所见的眼镜，并沉浸在上下文中。就像你有一个朋友，比如说我在街上看到你，然后智能体会告诉我：“嘿 Cristiano，注意一下。Jodie 来了。你可能想打个招呼。”我说：“嗨 Jodie，你好吗？”或者我在走动，你知道，在工作中，你的智能体会告诉你：“我注意到你现在有几分钟时间。我能和你谈谈你的议程吗？你有一些冲突，我想为你解决。”你还会做什么？你要买东西？我不知道。但那些——我们正处于巨大变革的开始。

So now I'm going to connect this with the conversation we just had about 6G. So now, we're going to an environment that from our phone, we going to start to have different classes of devices and the in those applications are going to get replaced by agents, and the agents are going to hear what we say, they're going to read what we write, and they're going to see what we see. Just think about see what we see. That's a massive uplink. So, one of the things that 6G brings, one of the many things, is 6G is going to be the technology that needs to solve a very important problem, which is now 5G was about high performance, high definition video streaming. Now I need a massive uplink because we all going to be walking cameras. We're going to have our glasses, and our glasses are going to see what we see, and we're going to interact with the agents. Um and I can happy to talk about some of the use cases, but many of the use cases are yet to be invented in the same way that nobody thought about Uber when we start thinking about uh 4G. So, that's one of the things that's going to happen with 6G. I have a massive uplink. The other thing that's going to happen with 6G is we're going to use AI in the network. And and the ability to we're going to teach uh the the system is going to is going to process radio signals as physical AI. Radio signals are going to be physical AI that you're going to have models going to be trained on it, and with that, you're going to start have a brand new capability. You're going to treat every radio signal as radar, and you're going to have a digital twin of the world at scale. So, this is another thing that 6G will do, and that's provide important context for agents. So, we're just at the beginning of one of the biggest changes that we had in the mobile industry, and it's going to be the same thing that happened before, and I'll add on top of that a tradition. For us in the wireless industry, we know that even numbers are very disruptive. 2G was massive. Everybody got a phone. 4G was massive. Your phone became a computer. 6G is where you're going to have now agents uh being part of the interface, and the experience is going to feel very very different. It's going to be walk You're going to be with glasses that uh and a smart glass is one of the devices. There's going to be more devices. But you're going to have glasses that going to be seeing what you see, and it's going to be immersed in the context. It's like you have a friend, and I'm going to Let's say I see you on the street, and then the agent's going to tell me, "Hey Cristiano, just pay attention. Jodie's coming. You may want to say hi." I say, "Hi Jodie, how are you?" Or it's I'll be walking around and you know, in your job, and your agent's going to tell you, like, "I notice you have a few minutes right now. Can I talk to you about your agenda? You have some conflict that I would like to sort it out for you." And what else you going to do? You're going to buy things? I don't know. But those That's we're just at the beginning of a big change.

所以，当你问我“智能手机是不是成熟了，这个行业现在到了这个地步”时，我喜欢回答这个问题，通常这就是一代结束时、下一代开始时会发生的事情。所以对我们高通来说，这是家常便饭。我们从一开始就见证了移动行业发生这种情况。但我们对移动领域将发生的变化感到无比兴奋。有趣的是：当智能体成为中心，你将看到巨大的行业变革。我们已经能看到它，变革将以两种方式到来。这个行业变革的一种方式是重心将从你的智能手机转移到智能体，我会解释这意味着什么。但另一个转变是工作负载将开始在设备之间转移。我记得智能手机早期，当我们有 4G，手机作为智能手机变成电脑时，有人说：“这将取代 PC。”现在，它没有取代 PC。我们仍然有 PC。它们非常非常有用。当我们使用 PC 时，我们根据过去的形式使用它。我们用 S2 键盘。即使你可以触摸你的 PC，你也不会触摸它。你用鼠标和键盘。但工作负载确实转移了。我们过去在 PC 上做电子商务。我们不再这样做了。世界上大多数人通过移动设备做电子商务。所以，将会发生的是你仍然会有手机。你的手机，就像你仍然会有 PC 一样，你的手机不会消失。但一些工作负载将转移到眼镜、珠宝、吊坠上。如果我把一个 IP 地址放在一件有麦克风和摄像头的珠宝上，我可以连接到智能体，我可以做不可思议的事情。所以，我们将看到这些新类别的设备。移动的下一阶段将是时尚与技术的结合，因为人类已经决定了他们穿什么。我们不会走出去看到每个人都戴着大头盔。不。

So, the reason I love answer this question when you ask me, "Is like smartphones is like mature is this industry now to the point and and usually that's what happens at the at the end of a generation, at the beginning of another generation." So, for us at Qualcomm, that's like that's par for the course. Uh uh We We've seen this happen with the mobile industry at you know, since the very beginning. But we're incredibly excited about what the changes are going to be in in in mobile. And what is interesting is this. When agents become the center, uh you're going to have a massive industry change. We can We can already see it, and it is change is going to come in two ways. One way that this industry is going to change is the center of gravity is going to move from your smartphone to agents, and I'll I'll explain what that means. But the other shift is workloads are going to start shifting between devices. I remember in the early days of smartphone, when we had you know, 4G and the phone became a computer as smartphones, there were people said, "This is going to replace the PC." Now, it didn't replace the PC. Like we still have our PC. They're very very useful. Uh when we go to the PC, we do we work with the PC based on on the form factor we used to. We use an S2 keyboard. Even though you can touch your PC, you don't touch it. You do a mouse and keyboard. But workloads did shift. We used to do e-commerce on PCs. We don't do it anymore. The majority of the world does e-commerce on a mobile device. So, what's going to happen is you will still going to have your phone. Your phone, like you're still going to have PC, your phone's not going to go anywhere. But some of the workloads are going to shift to glasses, to jewelry, to pendants. If I give an I put an IP address on a piece of jewelry that has a microphone and a camera, I can connect to an agent, I can do incredible things. Uh so, so we're going to see those new classes of devices. And the next phase of mobile is going to be the mix of fashion and technology because humans already decided what they wear. We're not going to go out and and see everybody wearing a big helmet. No.

我认为每个人都会穿他们平时穿的衣服，但技术会被融入其中。所以，移动的下一阶段将是智能体扩展到多个设备、不同类别的设备。你会看到时尚与技术的融合。你的手机将扮演双重角色。最后，我要说，最大的转变尚未被理解：我们正从以智能手机为中心转向以智能体为中心。所以，当你思考像可穿戴设备这样简单的定义时，以前或今天，它只是一个扩展手机功能的设备。这就是为什么大多数人从同一家公司购买可穿戴设备，因为如果你买了一块手表，它会将传感器数据发送到手机，并从手机接收通知。但现在，如果中心是智能体，一旦智能体理解了人类意图，无论设备是什么，情况都会改变。例如，你可能根据智能手表接收通知和发送数据的功能来定义它。明天，你衡量它的价值将取决于智能体可以为你做多少事情。它会感觉像一个应用商店。就像每周，你的手表或智能眼镜都会获得一个新功能，又获得一个新功能。我认为这就是我们在移动的下一个转型中会看到的。对你的问题回答得很长，但正如你所见，在高通，我们对此充满热情。

I think everybody's going to wear what they wear, but technology's going to get incorporated. So, the next phase of mobile will be the extension of agents to multiple devices, different class of devices. You're going to see the mix of fashion and technology. Your phone's going to have a dual role. And I will finish this answer by saying the biggest shift that is not yet understood is we're moving now from a smartphone center to an agent center. So, when you think about the definition of something as simple as a wearable, before or today, it's just a device that provides an extension of the functionality of your phone. That's why most people buy the wearable from the same company because if you get a watch, it sends your sensor data to the phone, gets notification back from the phone. But now, if the center is the agent, once the agent understands human intentions, it doesn't matter which device it is, things change. For example, you may define the functionality of a smart watch based on the fact they get notification and send data for the phones. Tomorrow, you measure the value of this about the number of things that the agent can do for you. It's going to feel like an app store. Like every week, your watch or your smart glass gets a new function and gets a new function. And I think that's what we're going to see with the next transition of mobile. Very long answer to your question, but as you can see at Qualcomm, we're very passionate about this.

不，这是一个惊人的愿景。那么，6G 什么时候到来？

No, it's an amazing vision. So, when is 6G?

它很快就会到来。我想我们在 MWC 上谈过。我们将在 2028 年推出芯片，首批系统将在 2029 年面世。我们非常自豪。我想我们宣布了一个联盟。我们现在有 60 家公司与高通共享这一愿景，这将是移动的未来，但无论如何，这是自然的演进。

It's going to come soon. I think we actually talk about it at MWC. We're going to have silicon in '28 and the first systems are going to be in '29. We're very proud. I think we announced a coalition. We got I think now 60 companies that share the vision with Qualcomm and it's going to be the next future of mobile, but that's kind of the natural progression anyway.

是的。再次，想到这一点非常令人兴奋。那么，当你在 2021 年担任 CEO 时，你的愿景是让公司至少 50% 的业务多元化到移动之外。

Yeah. Again, it's very exciting to think about that. So, when you started as CEO in 2021, your vision was to diversify the company at least 50% outside of mobile.

嗯，Witty，我认为当时我们想要的是，我们意识到有很多增长市场与高通技术相关。我认为高通的一个独特之处——我知道我们的竞争对手不会同意这一点——但我认为我们拥有令人难以置信的技术能力。我们进入的每一个新行业，从产品和技术的角度来看，我们实际上都开发出了领先的平台。我们的想法是在增长的市场中为公司创造显著的增长。手机现在是一个成熟市场，手机总量仍低于疫情前的水平。手机增长与 GDP 和人口同步，因为每个人都有了手机。今年由于大家都在内存上玩得开心，它被人为压制了。但除非出现像 6G 这样的大技术转型，市场就会变成一个个位数增长的成熟市场。然而，现在有很多其他机会，当你放眼整个半导体市场，高通有权参与。它们以两位数增长。比如我们的汽车业务，我们一直保持 30% 的同比增长，一个又一个记录。所以，当我们制定战略时，我们将追求所有这些。事情就这样发生了，我们在那些市场中增长的方式。移动将约占高通收入的 50%。随着我们在其他市场扩大规模，这个比例可能更高，也可能更低，但我认为——我之所以给你这个答案而不是一个非常简单的答案，是因为是的，我们说 2029 财年移动将占 50%。这是因为 2029 财年你可以有大规模的 6G 升级，然后一切都会增长。所以，我们拭目以待。

Well, Witty, I think what we wanted at the time is we realized there's so many growth markets that Qualcomm technology would be relevant. I think one of the unique things about Qualcomm, I know our competitors are not going to agree with this, but I think we have an incredible technology capability. Every new industry we enter, we actually develop in the leading platform from a product and technology standpoint. And the idea was actually to create significant growth for the company on markets that are growing. Phones right now, it's a mature market and phone is still below the total number of phones that used to be before the pandemic. Phone growth with GDP with population because everybody has a phone. It's artificially suppressed this year because of the fun everybody's having with memory right now. But until you have a big technology transition like the one that is coming with 6G, the market becomes a mature market that grows single digit. However, there are many other opportunities right now when you look at the broad semiconductor market that Qualcomm has the right to participate. They're growing double digit. Some if you look at our automotive business, we have been doing 30% growth year over year record after record. And so, when we put the strategy, we're going to go after all of this. It just happens in the way we're growing in those markets. Mobile is going to be about 50% of the Qualcomm revenue. As we get scale in those other markets, it could be more, it could be less, but I think it and the reason I'm giving you this answer versus a very simple answer is yes, we said fiscal '29 mobile's going to be 50%. It's because fiscal '29 you can have a big 6G upgrade and then everything's going to be growing. So, we'll see.

好的。本集由摩根士丹利赞助。摩根士丹利去年庆祝了其成立 90 周年，其科技投资银行团队数十年来一直以与最具创新精神的企业家和领导型公司合作而自豪。在此期间，他们为数百家科技公司领导了 IPO，包括 Apple、ARM、Astera Labs、Broadcom、Cisco、Facebook、Google、Nvidia、Salesforce 和 Uber。此外，他们还担任值得信赖的顾问，执行了数千笔并购交易，涉及一些科技行业最具定义性的交易。多年来，摩根士丹利科技投资银行团队的成功源于奉献、坚持以及帮助客户最大化机会、克服挑战的北极星目标。现在，让我们回到本集。

Okay. This episode is brought to you by Morgan Stanley. Morgan Stanley celebrated its 90th anniversary last year and its tech investment banking team has prided itself in working with the most innovative entrepreneurs and leadership companies for decades. During that time, they've led IPOs for hundreds of tech companies including Apple, ARM, Astera Labs, Broadcom, Cisco, Facebook, Google, Nvidia, Salesforce, and Uber. In addition, they worked as a trusted advisor and executed thousands of M&A transactions for some of the most industry defining deals in technology. Throughout the years, Morgan Stanley's tech investment banking team's success has been achieved by dedication, consistency, and a North Star purpose of helping its clients to maximize their opportunities and overcome their challenges. Now, let's get back to the episode.

那么，在多元化市场中，你最兴奋的是哪个？

So, of the diversification markets, which are you most excited about?

全部。

All of it.

好的。

Okay.

全部。好的。我爱我所有的产品，所有的市场。现在，有些市场处于不同的发展阶段。汽车，我认为我们非常自豪。我认为我们现在几乎与世界上每一家 OEM 合作，无论以何种方式都是高通的客户。我认为我们做了正确的事情。我们有正确的愿景，即汽车将成为一个轮子上的联网计算机，但它是一辆车。它不是手机。它不是 PC。它是一辆车。它是一个新的计算表面。我认为我们为我们所取得的成就感到非常自豪。如果你感兴趣，我稍后可以讲述我们如何决定进入汽车业务的故事。但另一个我们非常兴奋的领域是我们在机器人领域有参与权。机器人技术，使我们在汽车领域取得成功的一切在机器人领域也同样适用。机器人需要长电池寿命。你需要高度集成。你需要工业能力。所以，如果你想让一个 20,000 美元的机器人变成 5,000 美元，如果你需要它从 2 小时的电池寿命增加到 6 或 8 小时，如果你需要拥有你在手机和类似电子产品上看到的集成水平，那正是高通的核心竞争力。所以，这只是我们在汽车领域所证明的另一个验证。所以，我对此非常兴奋。我对工业的数字化转型感到兴奋，那里有很多边缘 AI。我认为这是一个未被很好理解的领域，但今天我看这个业务，Jody，我不是受需求约束，我是受解决方案约束。比如我们服务所有客户的能力，这是目前制约我们的因素。这是一个巨大的市场。而且你知道，我喜欢在数据中心做挑战者。所以，但是的，我对我们正在做的一切感到兴奋。我们刚刚谈到了移动的新未来。我认为我们在宽带方面取得的进展以及那些事情对高通很重要。

All of it. Okay. I love all my products, all my markets. Now, there are some that are different stage of development than others. Automotive, I think we're very proud of it. I think we're now working with virtually every OEM in the world is one way or the other a customer of Qualcomm. I think we did the right thing. We had with the right vision that the car is going to become a connected computer on wheels and but it's got a car. It's not a phone. It's not a PC. It's a car. It's a new computing surface. And I think we're very proud of what we accomplished. And I could tell the story later if you're interested how we decided to get into the automotive business. But the other ones that also we're incredibly excited about it is we have a right to play in robotics. Robotics, everything that made us successful in cars are going to are true in robotics. You need a lot of battery life in robotics. You need high level integration. You need industrial capabilities. So, if you want a robot that's $20,000 to become $5,000, if you need it to have from 2 hours of battery life to 6 or 8 hours of battery life, if you need to have the level of integration that you see on phones and similar electronic, that's right in the Qualcomm core competence. So, it's just going to be another validation of what we prove in automotive. So, I'm very excited about that. I'm excited about the digital transformation of industrial which has a lot of AI on the edge. I think it's been an area that was not well understood, but I look at this business today, Jody. I am not demand bound. I'm solution bound. Like our ability to serve all of the customers, it's what constraining us right now. It's a massive market. And you know, I like being the underdog in data center. So, but yes, I feel I'm excited about everything we're doing. This new future of mobile, we just talked about it. I think the progress we have been making in broadband and those things are important I think for Qualcomm.

考虑到我们的雄心和我们想要达到的业务规模，我认为所有这些努力都很重要，这也是我们同时推进所有这些事情的原因之一。那么，你觉得华尔街认可你正在做的事情吗？

Given our ambitions and the scale of business we want to have, I think all of those efforts are important and that's one of the reasons we're doing all of it at the same time. So, do you think Wall Street appreciates what you're trying to do?

他们会的。你看，我认为我们的信息一直是一致的。我们一直在执行，而且我认为我们一直在展示进展。每一项业务，我们都真正打造了正确的产品，对于像高通这样的公司来说，最重要的是产品。如果你没有正确的产品，你就没有获胜的权利。但我要举个例子。

They will. Look, I think our message has been consistent. We have been executing and I think we have been showing progress. Each one of those businesses, we actually built the right products, which is for a company like Qualcomm, the most important thing is product. If you don't have the right product, you don't have the right to win. But I'm going to give an example.

我记得那些不是完美的例子，但有时候指出来是好的。我记得像德州仪器，当诺基亚衰落时，德州仪器是诺基亚的供应商，对吧？很长很长时间。

I remember those are not perfect examples, but sometimes it's good to point it out. I remember like TI when you have the decline of Nokia and TI was a Nokia supplier, right? For a very very long time.

我认为在他们进行诺基亚转型之前，他们的市盈率很低。我认为市场没有认可。然后如果你看到他们退出移动业务后发生了什么，他们继续执行既定的战略，你知道，他们的市盈率和估值变化了多少。我觉得高通今天正在经历这个过程，无论我多少次说，是的，我们将退出苹果业务，人们还是想看到，你知道，你得到的是苹果供应商的市盈率。你得到的是移动业务的市盈率。这很有趣。我知道我们做对了，因为有时有人来对我说，是的，如果这个特定的多元化业务是一家独立公司，这就是你会得到的市盈率。为什么不把它分拆出去？所以，我认为这只是时间问题。我们继续执行，我认为我们会得到我们应得的估值，因为真正重要的是这家公司的知识产权能力，我认为这家公司在技术方面的记录真的令人难以置信。

I think until they went to that transition Nokia, they had very low multiples. I think the market didn't appreciate. And then if you saw what happened right after they transition out of mobile and they continue to execute on the strategy that they had in place, you know, how much their multiple and evaluation changed. And I think it's just I feel that Qualcomm we're going to this process today which is no matter how much time I tell that yes, we're going to transition out of Apple, people want to see you know, you get a multiple of an Apple supplier. You get a multiple of mobile. It is so interesting. I know we're doing something right because sometimes I have people come and say yes, if this particular diversified business was stand on company, this is the multiple you're going to get. Why didn't it spin that out? So, I think it's just a matter of time. We just continue to execute and I think we're going to get the valuation we deserve because what really matters is the IP capability of this company and I think the track record of this company from a technology standpoint is really incredible.

好的，那我们暂时继续聊 AI 话题。AI 显然改变了整个半导体行业的看法，我认为这是一个激动人心的时刻。我的意思是，我总是说，有些人可能两三年前就退休了，但现在没人想离开。每个人都想成为 AI 革命的一部分，因为从技术角度来看它太令人兴奋了。那么，到 2030 年，我们的日常生活会是什么样子？我的意思是，现在只有 4 年了。所以，我们的日常生活会是什么样子？我的意思是，你谈了很多 6G 会带来什么，但企业想知道投资回报率是多少。所以，也许可以稍微谈谈这个。然后我们的个人生活，除了在 ChatGPT 里输入问题之外，我们什么时候能有别的？

Okay, so let's stay on the AI topic for a moment. So, AI obviously has changed the entire view of the semiconductor industry I think and it's an exciting time. I mean, I always say that there's people that probably would have retired 2 or 3 years ago and no one wants to leave. Everybody wants to be part of the AI revolution because it's so exciting from technology perspective. So, by 2030, what does our daily life look like? I mean, that's only now 4 years away. So, what does our daily life look like? I mean, you talked a lot about what 6G will bring, but enterprises are wanting to know what the return on investment is. So, talk maybe a little bit about that. And then our individual lives, when do we have something besides just putting a question into ChatGPT?

好的。对于这个问题，我将给出两个答案。我想第一个答案可能是你期望从一家科技公司 CEO 那里听到的，这家公司做很多与 AI 相关的计算和连接技术。然后我会给出我个人的答案。我对这个问题的感受，无论对错，对吧？所以，我认为第一个答案是：AI 是一种新的计算方式。我认为它是一种新的软件开发方式。随之而来的是，它正在极大地改变你对工作是什么、如何创建软件、软件如何运行、计算如何完成的思考方式。它将改变许多架构。我们才刚刚开始大规模推理。它将在各处发生。我认为人们关于什么是云、什么是边缘的争论有点无用。有趣的是，我今天看你的手机。你的手机拥有令人难以置信的计算技术。如果你把它调成飞行模式，你就有点不想用它了。这是因为它是 100% 云和 100% 设备。软件会找到最有效的计算方式，一切都将运行推理。它将在数据中心进行，将在近边缘进行，将在本地进行，将在设备上进行。所以，这将是我们思考应用的方式。我相信进入 2026 年，将是智能体之年。智能体会变得更受欢迎。当智能体变得更受欢迎时，你将开始看到 AI 的真正可用性。是的，我们都可以去聊天框，我们可以提问，我们可以创作表情包，我们可以创建图像，但是，你知道，智能体将从根本上改变整个应用的概念。你开始看到像 OpenClaw 这样的例子展示了可能性。我们将在 2026 年看到智能体开始获得牵引力。它会获得更多牵引力。所以，到 2030 年，它将占工作负载的很大一部分，即你如何与 PC、手机以及我们刚刚谈到的不同类型设备交互。当你在车里时，拥有智能体将非常自然，因为语音是自然的，语音和视觉是与设备交互的自然方式。在企业方面，你将看到更多 AI 能力嵌入工作流、嵌入工具。所以，到 2030 年它将非常成熟。我确实相信，从长远来看，AI 可能被低估了。我认为它可能被宣传不足。一开始，我们都在争论投资速度、部署速度，但只是，你知道，如果你给它足够的时间，你就会找到它真正有用的地方。你将看到真正的创新和创造将会到来，人们将如何将这些智能体应用于有意义的工作流。它将规模化。所以，我看 2030 年，我们将拥有新的移动设备，正如我们谈到的，它将使用 AI 作为人机之间的主要接口。它将拥有许多智能体。这将对消费者使用的其他设备产生影响。我将看到企业将大规模 AI 部署到工作流中。我们真的不知道它们是什么。我认为现在我们看到编码，你看到，不同的功能被自动化。但是，你知道，随着智能体开始流行，你将面临一个场景，你将发现谁是赢家和输家。这些都还没有决定。你总是回到 2000 年说，“哦，是的，MapQuest 是会赢的地图。”没人知道。

Okay. I'm going to give you two answers to this question. I think one answer I'm going to probably give the answer you would expect from a CEO of a tech company that is doing a lot of computing and connectivity technology that has a lot to do with AI. Then I'm going to give you my own personal answer on this. How I feel about this, right or wrong, right? So, I think the first answer is AI is a new form of doing computing. I think it's a new way of doing software. It's going to with that it's changing dramatically the way you think about what is the job or how you create software, how software is run, how the computing is done. And it's going to change a lot of architecture. We're just the beginning of inference at scale. It's going to happen everywhere. There's, I think there's kind of a useless debate that people have about what is the cloud, what's in the edge. It's interesting. I look at your phone today. Your phone has incredible amount of computing technologies. And if you put in airplane mode, it's kind of, you don't want to use it. And that's because it's 100% cloud and it's 100% device. The software will find its most efficient computing and everything will be running inference. It's going to be doing on the data center, it's going to be doing on the near edge, it's going to be doing on prem, it's going to do it on devices. So, there's going to be how we're going to be thinking about applications. I believe you're going to start into 2026, it's going to be the year of agents. Agents going to become more popular. When agents become more popular, you will start to see the real usability of AI. Yes, we can all go to a chat box, we can ask questions, we can create memes, we can create images, but, you know, agents are going to be fundamentally changing the whole concept of an app. You started to see things like, open claw is an example that shows what's possible. And we will see in 2026 the beginning of agents getting traction. It's going to get more traction. So, when it gets to 2030, it's going to be a big percentage of the workloads of how you're going to be interacting with your PC, with your phone, with different types of devices that we just talked about. It's going to be very natural for you to have agents when you're in your car because voice is a natural, voice and vision is a natural way for interact with devices. And on the enterprise side, you're going to see a lot more AI capability embedded in workflows, embedded in tools. So, it's going to be by 2030 very mature. I do believe that AI on the long run is probably underestimated. I think it's probably under hyped. In the beginning, we all debate about what are the speed of investment, the speed of deployment, but it's just, you know, if you just give it enough time, you're going to find where it's really useful. You're going to see the real innovation and creation is going to come, how people are going to apply those agents to workflows that are meaningful. And it's going to get scale. So, I look at 2030 as we're going to have a new set of mobile devices as we talked about it, which is going to be using AI as the main interface between the man and machine. It's going to have a lot of agents. That's going to have an impact on the rest of devices the consumer utilizes. And I going to see enterprises having large scale AI deployment to the workflows. We really don't know what they are. I think now we see coding, you see, different functions get automated. But, you know, as agents starts to get popular, you're going to have a scenario that you're going to find out what are the winners and the losers are. None of it is decided. You always go back into 2000 and say, "Oh, yeah, MapQuest is the map that's going to win." Nobody knows.

所以，但我认为肯定会是一个非常成熟的，我认为，呃，嗯，呃，你知道，AI 的规模，它将改变我们对计算机、计算、连接性的一切看法，当然还有半导体作为结果。现在，我要给你我的个人答案。

So, but I think for sure is going to be a very mature, I think, uh, um, uh, you know, scale for AI and it's going to change everything that we think about computers and computing, connectivity, and and of course semi as a result. Now, I'm going to give you my personal answer.

好的。当我大学毕业时，我还在大学里，你知道，我们使用个人电脑，我们使用 spice，我们使用计算机辅助设计。然后我得到了，嗯，我得到了，呃，我的第一份工作，我意识到在工作中，你有混合。你有新与旧的混合。例如，我记得我走进办公室，他们仍然要去传真机取所有 overnight 传来的传真，他们有一份你需要回复的传真。然后，呃，虽然你可以去电脑上打一份办公室间备忘录，但你总是可以拿一个记事本。这对日本公司尤其如此，因为日文手写。你写一份公司间备忘录，放回传真机。对。然后，有一天，呃，每个人都有电脑，你有电子邮件，你有互联网，这太疯狂了。整个事情都变了。现在，我们认为这是理所当然的。我看 AI 也是一样。它就像一个工具。所以，很多人说，“哦，你知道，会发生什么？机器会接管，每个工作都会被消除。” 嗯，我不知道。我认为像一切事物一样，会有影响。但是，我们以前见过这种情况。我认为，呃，你知道，只要记住，我认为，计算机辅助设计对实际做设计的人做了什么，你知道，用笔设计，你有艺术家，呃，他们做很多电路和很多，你知道，呃，土木建筑图纸。今天全是计算机，呃，制作的。所以，你在企业中看到的那种变化，突然之间你有了电子邮件、互联网和一堆其他东西，那就是那种变化。而且，你知道，公司会适应。而且他们，你会看到它会改变人们的工作方式，它会改变工作流程，新事物会被发明。而且我，我认为这就是技术的历史。所以，这就是我的感受。

Okay. When I came out of college and I was kind of in college, you know, we used PCs, we used, you know, spice, we used, uh, computer aided design. And I got, um, and I got, uh, to my first job and I realized in in the job, you have the mix. You have the mix of the new and the old. For example, I remember I'll come in in the in the office and they still have to go to the fax machine and get all the faxes that came in overnight and they have like a fax that you needed to respond. And then, uh, while you could go to the computer and type in an interoffice memo, you can always get like a notepad. This is particularly true, uh, you know, for Japanese companies because of the Japanese handwriting. And you kind of write an intercompany memo, put it back in the fax machine. Right. And then, one day, uh, everybody has a computer, you have a email, you have internet, and was insane. It's the whole thing changed. Now, we take it for granted. I look at AI the same way. It's like a tool. So, a lot of people say, "Oh, you know, what's going to happen? It's going to be It's going to be, you know, the machine's going to take over, every job's going to get eliminated." Um, I don't know. I think like everything, there will be an impact. But, we have seen this before. I think, uh, you know, just just remember, I think, what computer aided design did with people that actually going to do, you know, the design with pen and, you know, and you have a artists that, uh, they were doing a lot of the circuits and a lot of the, you know, uh, civil construction diagrams. Today is all computer, uh, made. So, the same type of change that you saw in the enterprise when all of a sudden you have email, internet, and a bunch of other things, that is the type of change. And, you know, companies are going to adapt. And they and you're going to see it's going to change the way people work, it's going to change the workflows, new things going to be invented. And I I think that's the history of technology. So, that's how I feel about it.

那么，从人的角度，未来 5 年最让你担心的是什么？

So, what what concerns you the most from like a human perspective about the next 5 years?

嗯，你看，呃，这对我来说是个很难回答的问题。你看，我，呃，我是一个非常虔诚的人。我，我，呃，天主教徒。所以，呃，我，我，我总是担心，呃，你知道，那个以及我作为一个人如何。不仅是未来 5 年，就像今天和明天，以及，呃，未来 5 年，未来 10 年。而且我认为那是，呃，呃，尤其是，我认为，那些被赋予很多责任的人，然后确保，你知道，你用它做正确的事。现在，答案的另一部分是，你看，世界现在是个复杂的地方，呃，所以我认为很多是当你经常问我 5 年后会发生什么，有很多事情像这个月、接下来 6 个月和明年发生。但是，我认为从技术角度来看，我们在高通，我们喜欢变化。你看，我，我要说这个，冒着有点争议——呃，争议的风险，但如果你看看移动领域发生了什么，移动行业就是一个很好的例子。而且我，我知道你，当我谈到一路回到 2G。移动行业的历史是很多很多公司。他们从零到英雄，然后从英雄到零。但是，我们活下来了。我们活下来了。有一件事是共同的，呃，有一些像高通这样的公司活下来并保持相关性，呃，与那些来了又走的公司。而且我认为技术变化、大变化、大转变，那些事情已被证明对高通非常有利。我们在混乱中、在技术，呃，转型中茁壮成长。所以，我实际上因此对未来 5 年抱有，呃，极大的乐观。

Um, look, uh, it's a difficult question for me to answer. Look, I'm, uh, I'm a very religious person. I'm I'm, uh, Catholic. So, uh, I I I always worried about, uh, you know, that and how I am as a human being. Not only the next 5 years, like today and tomorrow and, uh, the next 5 years, the next 10 years. And I think that's, uh, uh, and that especially, I think, those that be giving a lot of responsibility and then make sure, you know, you're doing the right thing with it. Now, the other part of the answer is Look, the world's complicated place right now and, uh, so I think a lot of it's when you ask me a lot what's going to happen in 5 years, there's a lot happening like this month and the next 6 months and the next year. But, I think from a technology standpoint, we at Qualcomm, we like change. Look, I I'm going to say this at the risk of being a little bit controvers- uh, controversial, but if you look of what happened in mobile, and the mobile industry is a great example of that. And I I know you when I talk about all the way back to 2G. The history of the mobile industry is many many companies. They went from zero to hero and then they went from hero to zero. But, we survived. We survived. There's one thing common, uh, there's some companies like Qualcomm that survived and remained relevant, uh, with a companies that came and went. And I think technology changes, big changes, big shifts, those things has proven very good for Qualcomm. We thrive in chaos, in in technology, uh, transition. So, I'm actually looking the next 5 years because of that with, uh, great set of optimism.

好的。好的，那么，你知道，你有一个非常非常紧张的工作。我的意思是，我认为，你知道，我有偏见，但我认为半导体行业是世界上竞争最激烈的行业之一。嗯，我认识的每个 CEO 都是 24/7 全天候的，你总是处于工作状态。那么，一个人如何真正经营一家公司，同时拥有有意义的生活，拥有对你如此重要的家庭、爱好、宗教？那么，你是如何做到这一切的？而且，你对那些刚开始职业生涯的人有什么建议？有些人决定不要孩子，因为他们不想做出那种决定。

Okay. Okay, so, you know, you have a you have a very very intense job. I mean, I think that, you know, I mean, I'm biased, but I think that the semiconductor industry is like one of the most intense industries in the world. Um, every CEO I know is sort of 24/7, you're always on. So, how does one really run a company and and have a meaningful life, have the family that's so important to you, the hobbies, the religion? So, how do you do all of that? And and what's sort of your advice to people that are starting their careers? And some people like deciding not to have children because they don't want to have to make those kinds of decisions.

是的，所以首先我要说和之前告诉你关于出生在巴西一样的话，关于半导体。半导体不是给初学者的。所以，我认为，呃，呃，我，我也有同样的偏见。这不是一个容易的行业。它，呃，是一个非常复杂的行业。它复杂，不仅因为它复杂，而且你还有一个变化的行业。你必须适应变化。你，你处于地缘政治，呃，行业的中间。所以，这不是很容易。问题的答案的第二部分是，这非常困难，因为你总是必须，呃，你，你总是必须做出选择，你做出选择，你不想妥协那些选择，但你总是，就像我看自己，我，我，我总是在奔跑，因为我，我必须照顾我的家庭，我必须花时间陪我的孩子，我，我必须，我必须去，你知道，照顾自己，我必须花时间在教堂，我们必须花时间与员工，我必须花时间与客户。所以，我在奔跑。所以，我试图在这方面做好。我不知道我是否做得好。我，我，我总是，呃，时间比我需要的少。我认为这是你作为 CEO 最大的问题之一，呃，时间是最，我认为，宝贵的资源。但是，我，但我总是以非常积极的态度面对这一切。就像我有一种态度，事情会解决的。我会为一切找到时间。而且，嗯，不要做出那些重大选择，比如，我们不做这个。所以，就像我会，我会尝试平衡。有时，你知道，有时我累了，我想睡觉，但我的孩子们想看电影。我会看电影。我会想办法。我会，我会找其他时间睡觉。你就继续，我就是这样。我只是继续前进，继续推动，并假设最终会解决。

Yes, so first I'm going to say the same thing I told you about being born in Brazil, I'll say about semiconductor. Semiconductor is not for beginners. So, I think, uh, uh, I I share the same bias. It's not easy industry. It's, uh, it's a very complicated industry. It's a complicate not only it's complex, but you also have an industry that change. You have to adapt to change. You were You were in the middle of a geopolitical, uh, industry as well. So, it's not very easy. The second part of the the answer to the question is it's very difficult because you always have to, uh, you you always have to make choices and you make and you want not to compromise those choices, but you always, like when I look at me, I'm I'm I'm always running because I have I have to take care of my family, I have to spend time with my kids, I have I have to I have to go, you know, take care of myself, I have to spend time with church, we have to spend time with my employees, I have to spend time with customers. So, I was running. So, I tried to do a good job with this. I don't know if I do a good job with this. I I I always have, uh, less time than I than I would than I would need. I think that's one of the biggest issue that you have as a CEO, uh, time is the most, I think, valuable resource. But, I'm But, I face all of this with always a very positive attitude. Like I have an attitude that it's going to work out. I'm going to find time for everything. And, um, don't make those big choices about, uh, let's not do this. So, like I'll I'll try to balance. Sometimes you know, sometimes I'm tired and I want to go to bed, but my kids want to watch a movie. I'll watch a movie. I'll figure it out. I'll I'll figure out some other time to sleep. And you just keep I'm just like that. I just keep keep moving, keep pushing, and assume it's going to work out at the end.

那么，归根结底，你希望人们如何记住你，不仅在职业生涯中，而且在个人生活中？你希望，你知道，你的传记怎么写？

And at the end of the day, how do how do you want to be remembered as not only in in your professional life, but in your personal life? How do you want, you know, your biography to read?

你看，我不，我不考虑那些事情。坦率地说，我觉得，嗯，我，我试图，我非常非常努力地做我自己。就像做我一直以来的那个人。

Look, I don't I don't think about those things. Frankly, I feel like um I like I try I try very very hard to just to be who I am. Like to be the same person I've been.

我并不奢望人们这样想：“这就是他取得的成就。”就像我说的，我一直是个有信仰的人，是天主教徒。我觉得更重要的是，确保我尽一切努力走向那里（天堂）。这比我的传记更重要。但我确实希望自己大概能被记住。我想确保自己竭尽所能做一个好父亲、照顾好家人，并当好 Qualcomm 的守护者，因为这对来说其实更重要。

I don't have any ambition for people to kind of think about it like, "This is what he accomplished." Like I said, I've been a religious person and Catholic. I think it's more important for me to make sure I do everything to go up there. That's more important than my biography. But I do want it to probably be remembered. I want to make sure that I did everything I could to be a good dad, to take care of my family, and to be a good steward of Qualcomm, because that's actually more important for me.

我每天带着动力和干劲来上班，其实是因为这家公司的人。是因为这家公司的文化，是因为这里有很多人，我非常努力地不让他们失望，确保自己尽到本分。我觉得这就是我的使命。

The reason I come to this job every day motivated and energized is actually because of the people of this company. It's about the culture that this company has, and the fact that I have a lot of people here that I work very hard not to disappoint, and to make sure I'm doing my part. And I think that's my mission.

好。这次挺有意思的。希望你和我一样享受，我也对你有了很多了解。我觉得，做这档播客的目标之一就是去了解人，我想我们做到了。大家会知道你品格很好、非常在乎，也会了解这项技术背后的一些思考。

Okay. Well, this was fun. I hope you had as much fun as I did, and I learned a lot about you. And I think that, again, one of the goals behind doing this podcast was to get to know people, and I think that we have. And people are going to know that you have a great character, that you care very much, and some of the thinking behind the technology.

哦，谢谢。谢谢。你太客气了。非常感谢。和你这次对话我很开心。

Oh, thank you. Thank you. Very kind of you. Thank you so much. I had fun having this conversation with you.